Moneymoney

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 03:12 PM

Yanis Varoufakis: Basic Income is a Necessity

Varoufakis’ argument in short:

Reasons why no going back to FDR etc. style social democratic new deal:

Financialization of Capital
The Rise of the Machines
Socialism died when SU collapsed; Capitalism died 2008; current system: Bankruptocracy

Therefore, Basic Income essential to stabilize and civilize society. Our wealth production is social, collective -> spread purchasing power more equally and evenly to all participants.



More from the same event:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzUaHGZzU7tbzqE13ZK2qxA


My comment: Varoufakis is essentially correct, but doesn't get into specifics of how to implement (global) basici income system. Practical solutions and experiments still tend to keep into the prevailing monetary system (http://www.globalincome.org/English/English.html), hence, and funding global basic income remains major block. With new block chain tech evolving fast and starting to mature, it is now becoming possible to "fund" GBI by creating money directly as BI, e.g. in form of a monetary co-op. As for details, I have some thoughts in that direction too, and happy to discuss them if anyone is interested.

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Response to id-entity (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 03:24 PM

1. No thanks.

Not interested.

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Response to id-entity (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 03:40 PM

2. If everyone has a basic income to provide the basics (food/apt/etc)...why would anyone go to work???

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Response to quad489 (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 04:00 PM

4. So far the experiment show

that with BI productivity actually increases. See e.g. discussion here:




According to Maslow, the need to be beneficial member of society is basic human need:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#Love_and_belonging

Many of the talks also address the "Rise of the Robots", automatization replacing more jobs than it creates. With basic income there would be stabile aggregate demand for supply of automized mass production, and people more free to engage in various self-employed creative work, child care, etc. etc. From the totality of work (in physical sense) only fraction is monetized wage slavery. By "slavery" I mean that a person has no negotiation power to turn down a poorly paying shitty job.

BI that provides for basics does not remove incentive to work for some extra: travel, building a new house, fine dining, etc. etc. etc.

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Response to id-entity (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 04:24 PM

6. We have BI (basic income) here already, it's called welfare/food stamps/etc...

...and the incentives to go out and get a min wage paying job are very weak since the recipient receives far more benefits to just stay home and collect the welfare/medicaid/food stamps/etc. Now if the system was based on a true sliding scale............

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Response to quad489 (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 04:37 PM

7. Nope. I can't get welfare because I am a straight white male without kids.

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Response to quad489 (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 05:31 PM

8. Social security and BI

are two different things, related in certain aspects sure, but very different things. And there are many models for BI, starting from whether we speak of state and tax funded or DIY BI-monetary systems, etc. The devil is in the details.

It's good to start from the big picture, as macro-economist Varoufakis does (the vid is worth watching!). Global cake is produced by the collective of All Our Relations, and stability of economy requires also that there is stabile aggregate demand.

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Response to id-entity (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 06:43 PM

9. "Social security and BI are two different things"...yep, they are and I said nothing about Soc Sec..

...my point was our country already has a system to provide basic subsistence for those with no job. To implement a basic income for all citizens living in a country will just increase the cost of living by the amount of that basic income.

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Response to quad489 (Reply #9)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 08:20 PM

10. Good point

To implement a basic income for all citizens living in a country will just increase the cost of living by the amount of that basic income.


I assume that you mean that purchasing power = net total of money in the system divided by gross product?

In that case, it's not exactly true. If Scrooge McDonal hords half of the money in his vault, only half of the money is liquid. Purchasing power is net total of liquidity that moves in the system divided by gross product. BI increases the liquid money in circulation relative to to net total of money. QE for banks has not increased liquidity in real economy, all it does is end up in the vaults of financial speculation, while over all purchasing power and demand decreases. Casino bubble inflates while purchasing power in austerity stricken real economy deflates. Consequense: deflationary vicious circle and depression.




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Response to id-entity (Original post)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 03:42 PM

3. A global basic income? No. Non. Nein. Nyet.

I have absolutely no desire to have my wealth transferred to the people of Bangladesh, Namibia, or anywhere else to give them a "basic income".

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Response to Juan Rico (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 28, 2016, 04:07 PM

5. I understand that

and that is why I prefer creating BI directly as voluntary DIY-cryptocurrency instead of via state and taxation. Would you object such system, and would you be interested in joining such if and when?

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Response to id-entity (Original post)

Thu Sep 29, 2016, 08:24 PM

11. The Minister of Finance in Greece in 2014?

Oh yeah, HE's a financial genius!

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Response to oflguy (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 30, 2016, 01:38 AM

12. That's

bit of an overstatement, but certainly not the worst as far as academic economists go.

Lousy politician, yes, and that's a thing to feel proud about. As minister, he did develop a very smart and balsy plan B, but Tsipras etc. politicians rather surrendered than faught the banksters.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016/07/05/u-s-economist-galbraith-explains-varoufakis-plan-b-for-greece/

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Response to id-entity (Original post)

Fri Sep 30, 2016, 07:40 AM

13. Some countries already have Basic Income and it is going up

At the high end, doctors with two specialties will see their salary go from the equivalent of $26 a month to $67, while an entry-level nurse will make $25, up from $13. Salaries at government jobs in Cuba average about $20 a month, augmented by a range of free services and subsidies.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 30, 2016, 09:16 AM

14. I think

it's better not to confuse wages for gubt jobs and BI.

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Response to id-entity (Original post)

Wed Oct 5, 2016, 03:37 AM

15. As long as I get the big house on the hill and the fancy toys, you can have a living wage

Don't think for a second I'm living like you surfs

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Response to Badsamm (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 5, 2016, 03:46 AM

16. As you wish

But with this new guaranteed basic income, here's my resignition, you can now clean your own toilet or start paying a cleaner real market value of the labor, "boss".

I'm getting me now education in what I have always wanted to do, in what is my calling and passion, and I aint taking no student loan from your bank to be your debt slave, "boss".

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Response to id-entity (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 9, 2016, 08:35 PM

17. It seems that a common thread through many of your posts is you just don't want to work.

BI is for people who want what they want but they want someone else to pay for it.

It will never happen in this country, too many people have worked too hard for what we have.

Go earn your own....

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Response to id-entity (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 10, 2016, 05:38 PM

19. You must have an inferiority complex

Cleaning toilets is an honest job that merits respect.

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Response to id-entity (Original post)

Mon Oct 10, 2016, 02:38 AM

18. Has anybody noticed that communist countries are always poor?

A poor country is what you get when you ensure that everybody in it has a basic income.

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