Beliefsbeliefsoppositetestlawbusinesschoicesfreedom

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:53 AM

What if I were an atheist and I refused to do business with a religious person

So i see there are quite a few cases wending their through lower courts right now regarding Christians refusing to sell services to people based on their lifestyle choices. For example the case of the woman who refused to sell flower for a gay wedding in Seattle. (By the way I do not give a shit who you marry or how many people you marry that should be between you and your god(s) or lack thereof)

Based on the ruling you must sell services to such as flowers, cakes, photography that is wedding specific to gay couples for their wedding because to not do so is a violation of their rights.

So if as an atheist i choose not do business with you because you have a sign stating that you are a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Pastafarian (fill in other religion here) business is that a violation of your rights and can I then, if i verbalize my reason for not doing business with you, be forced to do business with you via a lawsuit?

Forcing acceptance through law tends to result in a dishonest society. This is a slippery slope we are on, I posit we need to let the market decide.

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Reply What if I were an atheist and I refused to do business with a religious person (Original post)
Ravenquills Feb 17 OP
graham4anything4HC45 Feb 17 #1
Ravenquills Feb 17 #3
frankt8242 Feb 17 #2
DDKick Feb 17 #4
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #5
SlayerNut Feb 17 #8
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #11
SlayerNut Feb 17 #16
Bubba Feb 17 #62
SlayerNut Feb 17 #65
Bubba Feb 17 #66
SlayerNut Feb 18 #67
Ravenquills Feb 17 #22
SlayerNut Feb 17 #25
Ravenquills Feb 17 #24
SlayerNut Feb 17 #26
Currentsitguy Feb 17 #28
SlayerNut Feb 17 #31
Ravenquills Feb 17 #32
SlayerNut Feb 17 #34
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #27
Ravenquills Feb 17 #30
Squeek Feb 17 #6
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #7
SlayerNut Feb 17 #9
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #12
SlayerNut Feb 17 #13
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #15
SlayerNut Feb 17 #17
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #19
SlayerNut Feb 17 #20
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #21
SlayerNut Feb 17 #29
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #33
SlayerNut Feb 17 #35
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #36
SlayerNut Feb 17 #37
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #38
SlayerNut Feb 17 #39
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #42
SlayerNut Feb 17 #44
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #46
SlayerNut Feb 17 #48
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #52
SlayerNut Feb 17 #56
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #63
SlayerNut Feb 18 #68
i verglas Feb 17 #45
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #47
SlayerNut Feb 17 #49
i verglas Feb 17 #51
SlayerNut Feb 17 #53
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #54
i verglas Feb 17 #58
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #59
i verglas Feb 17 #60
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #61
i verglas Feb 17 #64
SlayerNut Feb 17 #50
Frankenvoter Feb 17 #55
SlayerNut Feb 17 #57
SlayerNut Feb 17 #18
Ravenquills Feb 17 #23
i verglas Feb 17 #43
SlayerNut Feb 17 #10
SlayerNut Feb 17 #14
Ravenquills Feb 17 #40
SlayerNut Feb 17 #41

Response to Ravenquills (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:03 PM

1. The USA is built on NO religion of anytype, or any religion. No religion is freedom of religon

and no one religion is the religion.

as the pledge goes
One nation indivisible with liberty and justice for 100% of anyone in the US who is free to practice as they choose

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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:09 PM

3. I agree but

if you make rules via court cases you leave us open to that and that concerns me.

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Response to Ravenquills (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:03 PM

2. You wouldn't be in business long...

The "sheeple" are in charge here...

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Response to Ravenquills (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 12:10 PM

4. Lately it is all about being PC

If the government forces someone to do something against their religious beliefs then they are trying to control religion.

I also could not care any less what two consenting adults do so long as it doesn't impact me. That includes any religious beliefs, it really isn't my business. The thought that a religious group or political group feels the need to insert themselves in every aspect of people's lives is wrong .

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Response to Ravenquills (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:22 PM

5. Gays seek out Christians in order to either stick a finger in thier eye or shut them down

Either way, they can get their vindictive on, sanctioned by government. I have worked in and around the restaurant biz my entire life, and they know as well as I do that there are plenty of gay bakers out there who would LOVE to cater that "wedding".

But they don't do that, because they are petty, vindictive, bitchy, mental juveniles, who just have to have everything their way. They run around and will tell everyone that what they do in their bedroom is their business, and that people need to get the F out of their bedrooms. They will then turn right around, get in peoples faces about it, let them know exactly what's going on in their bedrooms, and demand acceptance of it. So which is it?

Very bipolar and scyzophrenic thinking if you ask me. I have done plenty of business with gays, I had a boss once who said "Mr. their money is green", fine enough, but as soon as I see a scoutmaster uniform folded up and ready to be worn on an upcoming camping trip, because gay guys insist on insinuating themselves around young boys for some reason, they are off my customer list.

I also wont work for muslims, because they like to haggle AFTER the job is done. I can tell them all I want before I come out "It sounds like this or that, and it will probably cost X" they will say yes, yes, you come now, you fix. Then, after I fix, I give them a bill, and the "Oh, ohhhh, much too much, much too much, I give you twenty dollar" starts up. I've been burned on that one 3 times, and we all know that 3 times is a charm in America.

I got my reasons for not working for them, I will hash it out in court if I have to. But I think they know as well as everyone else does, that now is not the time to run that shit up the flagpole, people are tired of it, and they are going to end up getting much more pushback than they expected. Fuck them.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:40 PM

8. the thing is

As far as I see it, if you own a flower shop you don't own a Christian/muslim/Jewish etc. Flower shop, it's a flower shop.
You sell flowers to people. Religious beliefs shouldn't mean you can refuse service to people you don't like.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:52 PM

11. Freedom of assembly Freedom of association

I am free to hang out with like minded people if I so choose. I am also free to not be forced to associate with people I don't want to.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:15 PM

16. Selling flowers

Isn't being forced to associate with anybody, you open your door to the public and treat everyone equally.
You don't have to attend the wedding, or kiss a boy.
sell the fucking flowers or be a bigoted asshole.. that's all it boils down to.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:45 PM

62. The Bigoted Assholes

Are the people who think they have the right to force a business into bankruptcy simply because the owner stays true to his conscience and beliefs.

If you would rather ruin the livelihood of a decent, hard-working family than walk two blocks to a different florist, YOU are the one with the problem.

Here's the word to describe folks who scream "Bigotry" when they're not able to force a business owner to do what he believes to be wrong:

L - O - S - E - R

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Response to Bubba (Reply #62)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 10:56 PM

65. I believe in equality

not beliefs. If your belief requires you to treat people differently for whatever reasons you think is right, then I don't want any fucking part of it.
Nobody believes they have the right to force a business into bankruptcy, the law says they have the right to force a business into bankruptcy, change the laws I guess, those gays trying to make us accept them.. how dare they infringe on my religious rights!!! craziness.

Religion is the problem here, beliefs are the fucking problem here, can't you see it?

It's not people that don't believe in god that have a problem, it's you, because of your beliefs.
Beliefs.. over actual living fucking human beings, with rights like you and me, you choose your fucking beliefs.
Way to go bubba, way to go.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #65)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 11:32 PM

66. You Have No Idea What My Beliefs Are.

But whatever they are, how are they different from the beliefs of whiny little fascists who believe they have the right to drive a family to bankruptcy over hurt feelings??

As far as changing the laws, legislators in several states are fighting for religious freedom laws. It's definitely an uphill struggle. Thankfully, there are still decent people in government who are not intimidated or cowed by indignant cries of "Bigot" or "Homophobe."

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Response to Bubba (Reply #66)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 06:12 AM

67. no i don't know

What your beliefs are but if I was a betting man, I'd guess christian. Simply because you defend discrimination and bigotry.

If these people want to stay in business they shouldn't discriminate. Why do people get so upset when they are told they aren't allowed to discriminate?
Religious beliefs my ass. Jesus said love everyone.
The message of their religion is to be nice to each other and love each other, everyone, no exceptions.
So if they can't even understand what their religion means they can't use it as a prop to hide their hatefulness behind, but they do.

Yeah there are some states trying to pass stupid laws but they will all get stricken down as unconstitutional so religious folk won't be able to hide behind their bibles anymore.

Love everyone as you love me. That's what Jesus said. He didn't say "except for" anything. When you discriminate and hate you are doing that to jesus too. He won't forget.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:52 PM

22. but that didn't really answer my questions did it.

so If chose not to do business with you because you have sign in your store that says you are a (insert religion here) business and i don't want my hard earned money going to support your (insert religion here) based on your logic i can be forced to do business with you when i don't want to.

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Response to Ravenquills (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:16 PM

25. No. That's not how it should work.

You can't force me to buy anything I don't want.
You can't refuse to sell me something that you sold someone else because you don't like me and use your religion as an excuse.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:05 PM

24. And finally

The reason i used the TERM LIFESTYLE CHOICES was t try and posit a hypothetical that would not immediately devolve into sex and fucking. I could care less who you fuck what i am saying is who you fuck should not give you special privilege any more than who i fuck should give me special privileges or rights. Who fucking cares who you fuck i don't. What i actually do give a fuck about is people having the right to make fucking choices about who they do fucking do business with and about fucking freedom of speech. If they feel the need to tell you why they fucking don't want to do business with you they should not be fucking sued for it. Talk with your feet and wallet. They will fucking go out of business anyway or maybe they fucking wont, but they will not benefit from my fucking dollars and nor should they be rewarded for their fucking small mindedness.

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Response to Ravenquills (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:23 PM

26. Well, if for example

A Jewish person, a black person and a gay person all walked into a flower shop and ordered flowers for their wedding and the person sold arrangements to 2 of them, which one is it OK to refuse on ' religious' grounds?

If they just came right out and said "I don't like Jews, so I'm not selling flowers for your wedding." That's ok? Just take your business elsewhere?? What if it's the only shop in town?
What if they said they didn't like black people? Would that be ok?
No it's not ok to discriminate for any reason.
These assholes use their religion as their excuse and other religious people back them up.. so why shouldn't we fight these pricks??
Walking away does nothing.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:28 PM

28. "A Jewish person, a black person and a gay person all walked into a flower shop"

That sounds like the opening to a bad joke.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:45 PM

31. Lol. . I suppose it does. .nt

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:52 PM

32. Or let me put it this way

I do not believe that religion, lack of religion or who you fuck should be a protected class. But again that was not the point of my post the point was that forcing someone to sell a service against their conscience leads to forcing people to buy service against their conscience and i really do not like that.

It is not okay to discriminate but on the other hand if you force people to "sell" their service to you do you think you are going to get good service? Do you think that some people who are really low wont piss in your wedding cake? If you do then i got news for you.....This kind of thing leads to societal dishonesty and horrible reactionary actions,. Personally I will not give my money to someone who refused service to someone based on religion , lack of religion national origin, sexuality etc because depriving them of income is the greatest punishment i can exact.

I also do not ever want to be forced to buy something from such a person. You may not see it but they are two sides of the exact same coin and you cannot do one without opening the door to the other.

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Response to Ravenquills (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:16 PM

34. No. it's not the same.

The consumer has the choice. That won't change because assholes are forced to stop discriminating.

Who you fuck shouldn't be a protected class, but it's because of these religious pricks that they need protection.
I'm sure they'd be happy with being equal and not have to worry about any of that shit..

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Response to Ravenquills (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:25 PM

27. You need a fucking thesaurus

So maybe you can find a fucking few new words. You should have known where this thread was going to go, seeing as gays shutting down Christian businesses is what got it all started to begin with.

And you didn't even touch on the crux of the issue, which is that they have plenty of choices, but they single out and seek out Christians, in order to either get their vinDICKtive on and a good gloat by forcing them to do something they don't want to, or shut them down if they don't.

They are petty vindictive child like whiners who expect to get their own way on all issues, and it is THEY who are the Nazis they accuse everyone else of being.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:43 PM

30. I don't know

but i do know, that sometimes being tongue in cheek is lost on some people.

I personally will not do business with any company that puts its religion out there. I don't like it. but the point is that forcing people to provide a service to someone against there conscience can lead to forcing people to buy a service against their conscience i don't like that either.

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Response to Ravenquills (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:29 PM

6. First of all...

So i see there are quite a few cases wending their through lower courts right now regarding Christians refusing to sell services to people based on their lifestyle choices.



Despite what so many people want to believe, being gay is NOT a "lifestyle choice". No more than being heterosexual is a lifestyle choice. Are you going to tell us that you, as a heterosexual (I'm assuming) choose to be that way, and that you could just as easily choose to be a homosexual instead?

No. Because it's not a choice.

Just like it's not a choice to be white or black or tall or short or disabled or able-bodied, etc.

What IS a choice is one's religion.

A person could choose to be Catholic. Or Jewish. Or Islamic. Or Atheistic.

that's the difference.

If I walk into your store you have no idea what religion I am, or am not unless I tell you.

If two guys walk into a store looking for wedding flowers or whatever, it's pretty easy to tell that they're gay.

Again, being gay is not a "lifestyle".

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Response to Squeek (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:32 PM

7. Yeah, but they're doing thier best to push pliable young minds thier direction

Why the insistence on adoption?

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:43 PM

9. You can't make someone gay

Or straight, it's been tried.. can't be done.
Two men or women adopting a kid won't make the kid gay, if the parents are assholes and try to force it, nature will still take over and they will be attracted to whatever gender they are attracted to..

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:53 PM

12. You didn't answer the question

Why are they so insistent on being allowed to adopt in the first place?

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:59 PM

13. why does anybody

Want to adopt children?
Either they can't have their own or they want to avoid going through the whole prwgnancy/birth thing or they want to help a child that isn't going to or doesn't have parents.
Pretty simple.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:15 PM

15. And why do people want to be parents?

So they can impart their outlook, their values, their world view on the next generation in the hopes it carries on after their deaths. I could very well see a gay guy telling his adopted son, in a loving way of course, you know billy, when I was your age, I felt the exact same way.

And you know what else billy? I never knew I liked broccoli either until I tried it...........

But they'd NEVER do that, never ever ever ever ever.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:23 PM

17. I refer you to my original comment then.

About not being able to make people gay or straight.
Who the hell would want to force being gay on their kids in the first place? Especially after what they had to go through and continue to go through becuase of their sexual orientation.
I bet most gays hope their adopted children are straight. To save them the hassle and bullying from assholes all their lives.
Get fucking real...
Broccoli? Don't know u til you try it?
We're talking about kids here and you think parents are going to force their kids to have gay sex just to try it?
Fucking disgusting.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:28 PM

19. I never said they would force gay sex on them

I was alluding to "the talk" all kids of a certain age get from their parents. And I have an inkling that a gay "parent" will make sure those kids know that those feelings are perfectly natural, they should explore all options, because there are really 2 roads they can travel, and besides, you didn't know you liked broccoli either until you tried it, did you billy??

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:37 PM

20. You are in a fantasy land

If anything gay parents would be far more accepting of their child's sexual orientation than devout religious parents.
You don't honk most gays tried to be straight? Had girlfriends and stuff? They realized what they were and had to find the courage to come out as who they are.
Why would they put their kids through that?
If their kid asks why they have 2 daddies.. they can explain it to them and the kid will still be what the kid is..only fucking religious asshole parents try to force thst on their kids.. gay parents won't scare and threaten their children with eternity in hell or kicking them out of the house if they are straight.

Smarten up

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 03:54 PM

21. They shouldn't have to put thier kids through it

Because they shouldn't have kids to begin with. Why do you think mother nature is such a homophobe? But being the devious manipulators they are, they'll just go for father nurture.

So we'll see how this latest social experiment goes. I anticipate a need for uber amounts of psychiatrist couches in about 20 years as lots and lots of people who went the broccoli route find out ole' dad and dad didn't have their best interests at heart, they had selfish motivations, and a need to stick a finger in the eye of society while securing the next generation of patrons at the local gay bar.

And seeing as their lifestyle is also an early death one, from disease and drug abuse, ole dad and dad wont be around to talk about their manipulations of young brains, hence the need for a psychiatrist or two to fill that bill.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 05:38 PM

29. Yup. . real fucking fantasy land..

Lesbians can have have natural born children, in fact, many do. Their kids turn out gay or straight at the same percentage as everyone else. Some even use gay men as sperm donors and have straight children.. hownis that even possible?? Your.point about nature is ridiculous. Nature is nature and gay people exist in nature. It is possible for females in some species to have offspring without the need for a male as well. Since we are all animals, apes in fact, the day may come where females won't require males anymore to procreate. It'll take a lot of evolution, but technically, it's possible.

As for your last paragraph, I think you should have stuck with Satanism. Christianity is having a bad reaction with your common sense, decency and tolerance for your fellow human beings.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:16 PM

33. Oh yeah, lucifer has nothing but love for us.....

I'll pray for your soul

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:22 PM

35. pray for your own fucking soul.

Apparently, Yours needs it a lot more than mine does.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:24 PM

36. No, I think I will pray for yours

Just to piss you off.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:28 PM

37. Why would it piss me off?

I don't give a fuck what you do.
Praying for my soul is pointless when yours needs it a lot more, why waste good prayer time?

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:30 PM

38. I always eat at 7PM

I always pray right before I eat to say thank you for my food. Guess whos gonna be at the top of my list tonight?

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:33 PM

39. No worries, I'll get my gay friends

to think about you when they are having sex tonight, usually around 11pm, Eastern time.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:45 PM

42. fine by me

Theres nothing more frustrating than something a person knows they can never have. They can think about me all they want, doesn't bother me in the least.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:49 PM

44. Good. Then that's settled.

You pray for me out of spite, because that's what Jesus would want, and I'll let them know to think of you, because they have cool fantasies like that. Maybe they'll pretend one of them is you and you met on here or something. They are pretty creative from what they tell me.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 07:27 PM

46. As I've said before, and maybe I didn't tell you I'm not a "turn the other cheek" Christian

I'm a "turn the tables over" Christian, as when Jesus turned over the tables of the money changers, a very non pacifist act if you ask me. And because when Jesus returns it will be with a flaming sword to SMITE his enemies, a little bit of spite doesn't concern me in the least. And until someone can tell me why I should follow one example and not the other, I choose the other.

As well as the fact that in the scope of all my other death worthy sins that I've committed, I'm just not that concerned about anything like that, it will be an asterisk in my book of life.

Finally, I was Luciferian, not Satanist. A fine line maybe, but Satanism is schlocky Anton Levay circle jerks, err, pentagram jerks, people not down for the struggle, as it were, just people wanting to keep the Halloween party going all year long and stick a finger in the eye of Christians, much like the gays of today, they love sticking their fingers in the eyes of Christians, and God only knows where those fingers have been.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 07:48 PM

48. Well that's nice.

Glad you can be honest about it at least, your not turning the other cheek belief anyway.

Did you just equate gays with the religion you used to believe, with the 'sticking their fingers in the eyes' turn of phrase?
You used to stick your fingers into the eyes of Christians as a Luciferian. Now you are the Christian getting your eyes poked because of gays.

Luciferians poked their fingers into the eyes of their enemies, religious people.

Gays poke their fingers into your eyes as a religious person because of YOUR religion, not because your religion is their enemy. They are your enemy in your eyes because of the religion you currently believe in.

edit: It also seems like Luciferians are more powerful than Christians, you went from poker to pokee just like that.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #48)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 08:43 PM

52. I wasn't luciferian in order to poke fingers in the eyes of christians

I was Luciferian to poke fingers in the eyes of God himself. And no, I am not a pokee. They would have to take me to court and go all Christian baker on me for that.

Until that time I will continue to voice my objection to gay adoption, which is my main objection. I give a shit less who they help have an orgasm on a nightly basis, IF they keep it to themselves. But they WONT keep it to themselves, they CANT keep it to themselves, which is my secondary objection to them.

Marriage I give a shit about as you are obviously not aware of as well. I understand completely the need for asset distribution in the case of a breakup, or being able to visit in the hospital without a family member getting in the way. I understand about those things and if they want to get married go for it.

But being the petty vindictives they are, they went straight down and started demanding adoption too, because it says right there "only married couples can adopt, and were marrrriieeed....." and you know, and I know, and they know, that when that statute was written gay marriage wasn't even thought about. If it was I can guarantee you a clause would have been added against it.

What I am seeing, and what they need a psychiatrist couch to get out in the open so as to purge it from their own heads, is that they are so concerned with running around DEMANDING everybody accept them and their lifestyle, the person they are trying to convince there is nothing wrong with what they are doing, over and above society at large, are themselves, because deep down, they know it too, and don't like being reminded of it.

But you go ahead and adopt those kids. You go ahead and subtly indoctrinate them. That way when dad and dad are sitting on the couch getting chummy with each other there will be no confusion at all. And even if there is dad, or maybe dad, can tell them theres nothing wrong with it, nothing at all. And when they bring home a boyfriend of their own their job will have been done, just like they had planned all along.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #52)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:04 PM

56. lol.

Ridiculous.

IF they keep it to themselves. But they WONT keep it to themselves, they CANT keep it to themselves, which is my secondary objection to them.


Well, let's see. You don't have the right to not be offended by something. Sucks for you, but that's the fucking way it is and I like it that way. You don't like it? Too fucking bad. Easily offended people are the reason there is no right to remain unoffended.
I wonder who else can't/won't keep shit to themselves, your religion. If you were an atheist with that view I'd be surprised, because hating on the gays is owned by religion. There has to be some for sure, just due to the probability of it, but too bad for them, they got nothing to hide behind like religious people. Unless they hate gays so say they are religious to get away with it, but that's a little too far fetched.. probably.

being the petty vindictives they are, they went straight down and started demanding adoption too, because it says right there "only married couples can adopt, and were marrrriieeed....."


Demanding adoption.
So.
Why do you care if two people in love want to take a child that may be left in the system, bouncing around with no home, in an institution most of his years and instead give him a loving home, where he can grow up in a stable house with loving parents? or have a friend be a surrogate mother and have 3 loving people in the child's life?
Oh ya.. you get to that answer..


But you go ahead and adopt those kids. You go ahead and subtly indoctrinate them. That way when dad and dad are sitting on the couch getting chummy with each other there will be no confusion at all. And even if there is dad, or maybe dad, can tell them theres nothing wrong with it, nothing at all. And when they bring home a boyfriend of their own their job will have been done, just like they had planned all along.


and I'll refer you back to my post about not being able to make people gay or straight and we can start all over if you'd like..
or the pray the gay away camps you religious folk like to stick your gay children into to make them straight.
Keep going, by all means.
Maybe you'll get a hide for that rambling and you can go cry about being oppressed about your beliefs.






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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 10:39 PM

63. well lets see

" You don't have the right to not be offended by something. Sucks for you, but that's the fucking way it is and I like it that way. You don't like it? Too fucking bad. Easily offended people are the reason there is no right to remain unoffended."

Liberals, and gays, are the ones who demand to not be offended by speech they find objectionable, because it disagrees with them and their viewpoint.

"Why do you care if two people in love want to take a child that may be left in the system, bouncing around with no home, in an institution most of his years and instead give him a loving home, where he can grow up in a stable house with loving parents?"

"loving" "parents" make me puke. And why do I care? I refer YOU back to my whole objection from the start, the subtle indoctrination that will happen over a lifetime, whether intentional or not, they will be influenced. To act as if they wont is willfull blindess on your part.


"where HE can grow up"

Even in your supposed non indoctronational answer, I know who you want to raise, and why.


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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #63)

Sat Feb 18, 2017, 06:23 AM

68. there is no subtle indoctrination.

It's all in that fucking fantasy land I have mentioned that you are living in.
Parents want what's best for their kids and gays know fully well that being gay isn't an easy ride. Luckily though, the older folks are dying off and taking their stupid hatred and ignorance with tthem. Younger generations are more accepting and are the majority so within a generation only the most hateful assholes will think the way they do and they'll be ostracized for it. Times change whether old assholes like it or not.

Liberals and gays don't like getting offended? Tough shit.. they are protected either. Why do.you feel so oppressed when other people get equality.
There is a saying, I'll paraphrase it because I can't remember it exactly..
The powerful majority equates equality with their own oppression.
Basically, the religious institutions have no power any more. . When they lose their power or have to treat people equally, they feel like they are being attacked or oppressed. It's funny but we see it on display here every fucking day..
gays are equal to you and I'd say most of them are better than you as well. They aren't going anywhere.. your backwards bullshit beliefs are.. fast..

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:59 PM

45. there seem to be a lot of dishonest jurors in these parts

No racist, sexist, anti-Semitic, anti-gay, or other bigoted hate speech

Do not spread hate based on race, sex, religion, sexual orientation or the like.
Why we have this rule: This website is open to a wide range of viewpoints, but not hate speech.

Are you willing to enforce this rule?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 07:31 PM

47. No letters in the mailbox yet

I had a feeling at least one of these would get the treatment, and this thread has been going long enough to give me a magical 5 if they are trying to gang up on me, but they just don't like anyone pointing out the truth about why they are so adamant about getting their hands on young boys either in the scout troop on the weekends or at home every day of the week with adoption.

Cant procreate?? INDOCTRINATE!!!!!!

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 07:50 PM

49. Why hide this stuff?

It's gold.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 08:33 PM

51. because eventually we might get rid of the ones who post it

and life would just be more pleasant.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 08:45 PM

53. It might be more pleasant 'here',

but I doubt it and that's what I like about it.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 08:47 PM

54. You just cant stand knowing there are people out there who dont agree with your "lifestyle"

Gotta shut them up. Gotta shut them down. Gotta get in their face and be all militant about it.

Well, that's what I'm doing but from the opposite side. Are only leftists allowed to be militant about what they believe?

Leftists, not just gays, are the Nazis. You prove it daily. ONLY speech you agree with should be allowed. ONLY your opinion will do. Or am I wrong about that?

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #54)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:10 PM

58. my "lifestyle"?

What's this secret knowledge you have?

And why the fuck would I give a flying fuck that somebody doesn't "agree" with my "lifestyle"?

What I can't stand are piece of shit misogynists and racists and their fellow travellers. And having to breathe molecules they have exhaled.

What you're wrong about is everything. Absolutely everything. That's "wrong" in this sense:

"Unsuitable or undesirable"

And this one:

"Unjust, dishonest, or immoral"

And then there's:

"In a bad or abnormal condition"

Not just:

"Not correct or true"

All of the above.

Your kind lie in an attempt to influence the world in the direction of pure evil.

All of the above.

Why you and all the rest do it, I really don't know. It's beyond my ken. What anyone gets out of being dishonest and rotten is just unfathomable to me. Has it made you rich? Famous? Happy?

I mean, in Trump's case, the why is obvious. Dementia. On top of the lifelong narcissism and psychopathy. Maybe he is truly happy, although we see little to prove that. But it's a nasty mix for anybody in the vicinity.

But all the rest, I truly just do not know. They seem constantly miserable and malcontent. Their sole aim seems to be to hurt and deprive, when hurting doesn't make them feel better, and depriving doesn't give them abundance. Bitter and twisted is how that comes out, not happy and healthy. It's a mystery to me.

Kinda like that "lifestyle" of mine ...

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Response to i verglas (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:21 PM

59. Your heaven is my hell and vice versa

There is a reason liberals and conservatives are on opposite sides of all issues. You will never get me to agree with you, I will never get you to agree with me, but I should still have the right to my opinion, same as you.

Leftists problem is that they believe their opinion is the only one that should be allowed, PERIOD.

Very Nazi like, if you ask me.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #59)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:31 PM

60. so are you rich, famous and/or happy?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #60)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:40 PM

61. I'm happy where I am at, I have everything I need

What does that have to do with anything?

Is being famous what you consider achievement? How much money do you have? Is it enough? I have found people who base their happiness on how much money they have or how famous they are never seem to have enough of either, and are thereby never truly happy, therefore I have everything they wish they had.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 10:51 PM

64. why is pretending that every post is a new conversation so popular here?

What my question has to do with is my previous post. Oddly enough.

You didn't respond to anything I said in that post, so I restated my question.

What do people get out of being hurtful and hateful? Does it make them rich? famous? happy?

Those are typical reasons why people do things: to become rich or famous or happy.

I'm wondering whether being hurtful and hateful has made you rich, or famous, or happy, or, if none of them, then what?


Oh, and I still want to know what this "lifestyle" of mine that you have alleged is. Now, please.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 07:52 PM

50. Can't procreate.. indoctrinate..

um, um, um
Things that a Catholic priest would say.

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 08:51 PM

55. The catholic church is the whore of babylon of the book of revelation

In the end days all truths will be exposed. I love the way people throw "catholic" out there and lump all Christians in with them. Ever heard of Protestants?

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #55)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 09:08 PM

57. I used catholic priest because they cannot marry

and therefore CANNOT PROCREATE!!!

I guess that went right the fuck over your head.

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Response to Frankenvoter (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:27 PM

18. and..

The only people that try to force sex on anyone are the fucking religious whackos that have they "pray the gay away" camps and shit like that. Really. .
Conversion therapy.. Forced on gays..
are you fucking ok with that?
And you say shit about what gay parents MIGHT do in yiur llittle.fantasy.. why not.go after these assholes thst are doing it FOR REAL... RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!

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Response to Squeek (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 04:56 PM

23. totally missed the point didn't you

Sorry for not choosing the perfect words you still missed the point of what i said. Its pretty obvious that some people are ASSHOLES and when they are i have the right not to do business with them. I said if i walk into your store and you have sign up stating that you are an (insert religion here) and i as an atheist chose not do business with you and tell you so can you take me to court and force me to buy your services.

READ THE POST!!!!

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Response to Ravenquills (Reply #23)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:46 PM

43. I read the post, and I was pretty sure you realized how ridiculous it was

Maybe I was wrong.

A business offers its services to the public. In that capacity, it is governed by non-discrimination laws. They're laws, not constitutions or whatever. Just like all the other laws we have. They reflect the consensus that all individuals should have access to the goods and services available in the marketplace, without discrimination based on their inherent or irrelevant personal characteristics.

The reason is the general recognition that people need food and housing and suchlike things and that if discrimination is allowed, some people will not have access to those basic goods and services or will have access only to inferior goods or less accessible services, and that that sucks.

You walking into a business as a customer is not you offering goods or services in the marketplace.

How the hell would a court force someone to buy a good or service? And on what rational basis? What if you don't happen to be in the market for flowers today -- do we take your stated refusal to buy flowers from Zoroastrians and force you to buy flowers from all the Zoroastrian flower vendors in a 10-mile radius?

You, as an atheist, can choose to buy or not buy anything you want, from anybody you want or don't want.

You may not choose not to sell your goods or services to someone based on their race, religion, and whatever other characteristic your society has determined amounts to impermissible discrimination, because that's what your society has decided, on excellent grounds, will be the law.

If flower vendors may refuse to sell to homosexuals, then so, obviously, might landlords refuse to rent apartments to them, developers refuse to sell houses to them, grocery stores refuse to sell food to them, airlines refuse to sell tickets to them, car dealers refuse to sell cars to them, and so on and on and on. Unless we're going to start deciding for people what the bare essentials of life are and prohibit discrimination only in those areas ...

If you represent yourself as selling goods or services to the public, then you sell goods or services to the public. Your tender feelings just don't come into it when the issue is someone else's ability to obtain the goods and services they need for the same purpose as anyone else needs them for. There is not an infinite number of grocery stores that an individual has access to; they can't just cross the street if one won't sell to them, and keep on crossing the street each time they are turned away.

If you breed rabbits as pets, you can feel free to refuse to sell them to someone who plans to kill them, whether for food or for a religous sacrifice. But if you sell flowers for weddings, then just sell the damned flowers for the damned weddings, and mind your own damned business.

And if you don't want to buy your own flowers from a lesbian Muslim in a wheelchair, off you go and find somebody who suits your taste.

I have decided not to have my new roof installed by members of a local Christian sect known for their carpentry prowess, because I don't really want to support their "lifestyle", in particular the role women are confined to in their community. I walked away from a motel someplace in Tennessee because the owners did, in fact, have a big old Christian sign up and that made them assholes in my eyes; I also avoided every motel in Daytona whose sign proclaimed "American Owned", for the same reason. (The Asian couple who owned the motel we ended up at were as "American" as all the others.)

An obligation to buy would be a nonsense.

Not that the right wing has not been champing at the bit to outlaw the BDS movement against buying Israeli goods and services, of course ...

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Response to Ravenquills (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 01:45 PM

10. We're fucked as atheists.

We don't have an old book telling us it's ok to discriminate. We'd have to pick a religion, find something in it that allows us to discriminate against someone from another religion and say that our beliefs match that of said religion and then maybe we could discriminate.
I'm glad I don't have a book telling me who god hates, I'm able to hate whoever I want based on their actions, not by accident of birth.

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Response to Ravenquills (Original post)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 02:00 PM

14. ppl say the gays make a big stink

About it..
Imagine refusing a Christian because of their choice of religion..

OH!!!
They'd lose their fucking minds..

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Response to SlayerNut (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:34 PM

40. That is my point

I want to ensure i have the freedom to to refuse to buy things from a business that touts their religion....I save hatred for the few people in my life who have really truly hurt me and even then i find as i get older that hate has turned into pity.....However i am fiercely protective of the rights of the people whose beliefs and prejudices I find abhorrent because to be less that that diminishes me as a person.

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Response to Ravenquills (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 17, 2017, 06:37 PM

41. You do have that freedom and you always will.

Provided you live in a place where you have the choice of different retailers/restaurants etc..

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