Newsnewsepaminewastewaterspill

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:22 PM

EPA spill: 'The magnitude of it, you can't even describe it!"

The city of Durango and La Plata County, Colorado, have declared a state of emergency after a federal cleanup crew accidentally released mine waste into the water.

An estimated 1 million gallons of waste water spilled out of an abandoned mine area in the southern part of the state last week, turning the Animas River orange and prompting the Environmental Protection Agency to tell locals to avoid it.

"This action has been taken due to the serious nature of the incident and to convey the grave concerns that local elected officials have to ensure that all appropriate levels of state and federal resources are brought to bear to assist our community not only in actively managing this tragic incident but also to recover from it," said La Plata County Manager Joe Kerby.

According to the EPA, the spill occurred when one of its teams was using heavy equipment to enter the Gold King Mine, a suspended mine near Durango. Instead of entering the mine and beginning the process of pumping and treating the contaminated water inside as planned, the team accidentally caused it to flow into the nearby Animas River. Before the spill, water carrying "metals pollution" was flowing into a holding area outside the mine.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-spill/index.html

72 replies, 4258 views

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Reply EPA spill: 'The magnitude of it, you can't even describe it!" (Original post)
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 OP
Sassyspop Aug 2015 #1
rampartb Aug 2015 #2
orson Aug 2015 #3
rampartb Aug 2015 #5
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #9
City Kitty Aug 2015 #21
Da Mannn Aug 2015 #4
oldenuff35 Aug 2015 #6
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #11
oldenuff35 Aug 2015 #13
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #15
oldenuff35 Aug 2015 #16
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #19
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #27
OneLoudVoice Aug 2015 #40
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #46
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #10
oldenuff35 Aug 2015 #14
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #18
Fine Kettle Of Fish Aug 2015 #25
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #26
Jenny Fromdablock Aug 2015 #7
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #8
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #12
smoke check Aug 2015 #36
OneLoudVoice Aug 2015 #41
smoke check Aug 2015 #52
exindy Aug 2015 #54
smoke check Aug 2015 #60
OneLoudVoice Aug 2015 #63
smoke check Aug 2015 #64
OneLoudVoice Aug 2015 #66
exindy Aug 2015 #53
smoke check Aug 2015 #56
exindy Aug 2015 #58
smoke check Aug 2015 #62
Doctor_R Aug 2015 #17
Attila Gorilla Aug 2015 #20
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #30
City Kitty Aug 2015 #22
Doctor_R Aug 2015 #23
smoke check Aug 2015 #37
City Kitty Aug 2015 #39
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #45
smoke check Aug 2015 #50
exindy Aug 2015 #51
smoke check Aug 2015 #59
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #24
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #28
Lumster Aug 2015 #29
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #31
Lumster Aug 2015 #32
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #33
exindy Aug 2015 #34
smoke check Aug 2015 #35
exindy Aug 2015 #42
smoke check Aug 2015 #48
exindy Aug 2015 #49
smoke check Aug 2015 #55
exindy Aug 2015 #57
smoke check Aug 2015 #61
mrwordsworth Aug 2015 #38
exindy Aug 2015 #44
smoke check Aug 2015 #65
Jack Burton Aug 2015 #43
exindy Aug 2015 #47
exindy Aug 2015 #67
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #68
exindy Aug 2015 #69
Jack Burton Aug 2015 #70
Lifelong Aug 2015 #71
Gamle-ged Aug 2015 #72

Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:28 PM

1. Kind of a freakshow.....an entity that claims to want to protect us..

 

wrecks the joint...........yeah, let's let the morons do more to protect us...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:47 PM

2. the mine was abandoned by the san juan mining corp

and was being cleaned by a privatized contractor.

it is ironic that an entity which made huge profits from this mine would leave the clean up to the taxpayers.

how many thousands of these mines are there?

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Response to rampartb (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:54 PM

3. This is not the narrative they are looking for

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Response to orson (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:25 PM

5. of course not

the role of government in guaranteeing corporate profit through financing corporate inefficiency, mismanagement, externalities, and criminal behavior is not the story we are supposed to know.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:02 AM

9. "and was being cleaned by a privatized contractor."

And there's your problem. Lowest bid and minimal inspections to make sure it was done right. This is why Bernie Sanders is drawing huge crowds.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:51 AM

21. The Truth Does Not Matter

The sharks are sinking their teeth into another story about government incompetence. It does not matter that it was the San Juan Corp that abandoned the mine and left the mess there in the first place. It does not matter that it was a private contractor who fucked it up. All they see is "EPA" and they go nuts.

Since you pointed out the obvious to anyone with living brain cells, let them go at it and show their stupidity and partisan rancor to the world.

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:56 PM

4. Obama's Watch

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #4)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:28 PM

6. This is Obama's EPA in action.

What was it Reagan said about the scariest thing you could hear, " we are from the government and we are here to help you."

It seem that the government helped these people out so much they are just tickled to death.. no that will be in a few years.....

Thanks Obama EPA tirants...

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Response to oldenuff35 (Reply #6)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:03 AM

11. Not EPA.

Private contractor.

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Response to Attila Gorilla (Reply #11)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:05 AM

13. who hired them and is responsible for them?

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Response to oldenuff35 (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:06 AM

15. Now you're against privatization?

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Response to Attila Gorilla (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:08 AM

16. nope but you got to follow the chain of responsibility.... and it goes directly to the EPA.

and hell no. Private security contractors make good money but not here in this country.... If you have the creds and experience it is in the mid to high 200K range and tax free to boot.

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Response to oldenuff35 (Reply #16)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:21 AM

19. So what would your solution be?

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Response to Attila Gorilla (Reply #19)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:51 AM

27. The government becomes responsible for damages they caused and taxpayers foot the bill?...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Reply #27)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 05:54 PM

40. And the corporation who abandoned the mess in the first place?

Where would their responsibility be?

Roughly speaking, if your neighbor left a big ol canister of rat poison out to rust on the lawn, and then ditched their mortgage, and then when the city hired a company to safely clean it up, it was rusty and broke, spilling poison out, who is at fault for the wildlife that dies and the fumes that give your kids headaches.

Do you go after the guy who left the canister out to rust? not you.
Do you go after the company who unsafely moved the canister? Not you

You go after the one party involved who was trying to remedy the situation.

good job on getting to the bottom of things

Also a brilliant example of exactly why Nuclear power is a terrible Idea. Private corps go in, make a mess that will be around thousands of years, and if anything goes wrong, they dump the costs on the tax payer. And then people like yourself come along and blame the government for the whole thing.

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Response to OneLoudVoice (Reply #40)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:05 PM

46. Lawyers do have their uses!...

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #4)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:02 AM

10. Private contractor.

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Response to Attila Gorilla (Reply #10)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:05 AM

14. That the EPA hired

and is responsible for.

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Response to oldenuff35 (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:19 AM

18. Think how much better the EPA will be with Scott Walker at the helm.

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Response to oldenuff35 (Reply #14)


Response to Fine Kettle Of Fish (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:47 AM

26. If it's on the job, say that roofer drops a hammer on your neighbor's head, and the roofer is not...

... insured for liability, I believe you can be successfully sued...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:48 PM

7. If only there was a pipeline of some sort to move that shit through...

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Response to Jenny Fromdablock (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:52 PM

8. Sounds like they breached a retaining wall and cleared the mine quicker than anticipated...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:04 AM

12. What do you expect from a private contractor?

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Response to Attila Gorilla (Reply #12)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 05:08 PM

36. Exactly what agency in the federal government

has expertise in mining and cleaning old mines.

Number 1: The government will not afford what the peole that know what they are doing will charge.
Number 2: As this is not an ongoing activity, it's cheaper to hire corporations who do know how to handle this activity.

In this case, as I understand it, a wall in the mine was breached, though we don't know why just yet, a map could have been wrong or a strata of rock may have not been as stable as thought. In other words, things happen and experienced professionals can make mistakes.

In my experience, government agencies are only good for costing money/wasting tax money and writing reports to justify their continued existence.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #36)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 05:58 PM

41. Corrections

Number 1: The government will not afford what the peo-p-le that know what they are doing will charge-because Conservatives refuse to allow the government adequate budget for anything except military ventures and corporate benefits-
Number 2: As this is not an ongoing activity, it's cheaper to hire corporations who do -claim to- know how to handle this activity -because they will always find a way to cut costs, as the goal is money, not doing it right-.

Fixed your claims.

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Response to OneLoudVoice (Reply #41)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:28 PM

52. People hired by the government are placed on the GS type system.

Educate yourself on it. To go beyond GS-3 requires a college education. The system is utterly inflexible. In the real world, a lot of people that bust their ass, know their job, and are even acknowledged as experts in their field either do not have an education, or are payed far in excess of anything that would be offered under the GS system.

Further, I assure you someone in the GAO, one of the few agencies that seems to work, has conducted an analysis and determined exactly what I am saying. This type of work can not be adequately at a lower cost by government employees.

It is clear you do not understand how contracts work. A company wants to show a profit and stay in business. Ask around your area, you will find that every one can tell you which company will build the best house. They certainly care about their bottom line as well.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #52)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:30 PM

54. Total BS.

You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Not clue 1.

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Response to exindy (Reply #54)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:44 PM

60. That is not a rebuttal.

I'll try and make it easier.

1. People wo are experts in mining cost more than the government could pay them under the Government Services system.

2. Considering the lifetime costs of a government employee including benefits and a thirty to fifty year retirement with benfits package, hiring these companies are still a lower cost.

3. Mine cleanup is not an ongoing yearly operation with projects that would span the year of said government employee expert on mining.

I have years of experience, I know exactly what I am claiming.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #52)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 07:04 PM

63. LOL

My dad worked his way through the gs system. Though he got a boost into it via his military service, and voluntarily had his rating lowered so he could work the jobs he actually wanted to do. But I know enough about it to know that your comments are irrelevant to this issue.

GAO is only one part of the system. They may make an assessment. That's no guarantee that the laws created by the legislature or the regulations set forth by the administrative branch allow the agencies to chose the most cost efficient option. I would need proof of your assertion in this specific instance before It would be more than an opinion on your part

As for contracts... Thats really funny. Maybe 30 years ago, that was true, but today company wants to show a profit now. What comes after is less important for many. If they are small, they shut down and go away. If they are large, they just change their name and go into the woodwork. Especially when it comes to housing contractors. The company that did most of the "upscale" new building here in my area in 06-08 is.. gone. Bet the workers are still around, with other companies though. Id guess the owners are too, with new ventures. And all those houses, built by the "best" for the high end buyers? They are springing leaks and turning to mold like there's no tomorrow.

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Response to OneLoudVoice (Reply #63)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 07:20 PM

64. I'll ask you....

How much is an expert mining engineer worth? How much would the government offer him, benefits included? Also, when was your father a federal employee? the push to have all government employees havine useless degrees mostly started under Bush but were caused by changes under Clinton.

I didn't really specify upscale, and I know of contractors that have been in business for thirty years and more that are still building houses under their original name. Don't get me started on what some of the contractors in the 2000s were doing, beyond disgusting but I wasn't necessarily thinking high end.

I've handled a lot of government contracts some with requirements that made the contract itself into a stack of paperwork five feet tall. It specified all sorts of things, from specifications for operator spaces to the types of cabling and equipment used, to airflow, and safety and environmental factors I had to provide while working on that project.

Companies are run to make a profit, no problem with that. That does not mean they are run by ogre slave masters who care nothing for the environment.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #64)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 07:57 PM

66. Im not an expert in mining engineers

However, I feel certain that the federal government could provide enough work to justify having at least one join the payroll. Its a big country, afterall, and Im sure the mining company that ditched this mine isnt the only one to have done so.

Im sure that there are contractors out there who are good and care about their work. But there are a fuckton that are not. I can personally testify to this. My HOA is on our third, and I am personally on my 5th since becoming a homeowner.

And prior to becoming a homeowner, I got a pretty good picture of what was on the market. We looked through over 60 places before we made an offer, and over 100 before we had an accepted offer. And what I can tell you is that I would be damn dubious about buying anything made post 95. We didnt see a one without serious defects, or recent repair work.

I actually dont have a problem with most companies making a profit. But that does not mean they have any incentive NOT to be, as you put it "ogre slave masters who care nothing for the environment". Just because not all are, does not mean that plenty are not built around short term profit, with no significant regard for long term consequences.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #36)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:29 PM

53. Based on this particular instance

we know for certain that private company had no expertise.

Or didn't care.

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Response to exindy (Reply #53)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:33 PM

56. Based on what?

Experts never fuck up?

The government never fucks up?

Shit never happens?

Again, evidence says the private company did care and was very active in alerting downstream when the problem started. We don't have evidence of lack of expertise or care.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #56)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:38 PM

58. Got it.. nothing happened here. n/t

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Response to exindy (Reply #58)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 07:03 PM

62. Now you are just being flippant.

No one claimed nothing happened it's simply that you are assuming that the private company was behaving carelessly or recklessly, which is not a fact in evidence, while also assuming that a government issued pay check would somehow turn these same men into angels of some sort, also extremely lacking in evidence.

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:14 AM

17. Pic:



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Response to Doctor_R (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:22 AM

20. Thanks, private contractor.

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Response to Attila Gorilla (Reply #20)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:07 PM

30. The job should have had a sergeant contractor, at the very least...

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Response to Doctor_R (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:53 AM

22. Why Did San Juan Corp Leave the Mess for Someone Else to Clean Up?

Don't corporations have to live up to their responsibilities?

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Response to City Kitty (Reply #22)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:02 AM

23. See post #

8.

The government screwed it up.

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Response to City Kitty (Reply #22)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 05:18 PM

37. Could be a few things:

Notice the contanimated water was mostly within the mine, it was probably a lot like Tombstone, AZ mines that simply flooded after active mining stopped.

In that case, the operator may not have any burden required. There are all sorts of mines in the US that are flooded in a simialr manner.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #37)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 05:53 PM

39. How Many of Those Flooded Mines

have an easily breakable company-built wall built to keep the contaminants inside of it?

Still, this whole thing could have been avoided in the first place if San Juan Corp hadn't left a toxic mess to clean up. Why aren't any of these pro-private industry, keep-government-out-of-everything types whining about the company who created the toxic waste? Are they that hungry for excuses to bash the ones trying to fix the problem?

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Response to City Kitty (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:03 PM

45. If you have the history of operations at this mine and how it was shut down and what efforts were...

.. made, first by the company, then by a government to clean things up, a time line of the foregoing and any legal actions brought over time, that would be helpful.

The application of a two-millennium-old caution from another field of endeavor regarding ameliorative action might have helped here: "First, do no harm."

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Response to City Kitty (Reply #39)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:20 PM

50. More than you would think....

As long as the company followed all safety and environmental regulations at the time they were operating the mine, then they were within the law and their obligations as a corporation. They may very well have not left a "toxic mess" instead of having normal things such as lead leech out of the ground through normal processes and contaminate the water only after they left.

If you'll notice, I'm not really bashing anyone. Many of the superfund sites in existence were legal operations that simply had no idea of the environmental mess they were creating, likewise the bureaucrats had no real idea that the regulations they were busily humping out were doing even further permanant damage to the affected communities.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #50)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:27 PM

51. Nonsense. Those operations knew exactly what they were doing.

They were stretching the law as much as they could.

Then the clean air and clean water laws made them somewhat responsible.

Unfortunately the holes in our legal system gave them wiggle room. So any fine profit-oriented company just rammed right thru them.

Those communities are now the ones who have to deal with the yellow river.

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Response to exindy (Reply #51)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:40 PM

59. Funny you should mention the Yellow (Yalu) River

That's an example of allowing industry (not corporations as it's all run for government profit) to run with absolutely no checks. No one wants to live in pollution, put an EPA that is discussing regulating backyard barbecue grills is a out of it's bounds.

As far as your assertion, simply no, a lot of times the scientific data was unavailable to tell us an issue existed. Asbestos was originally hailed as a wonder that made buildings safer as it wouldn't burn easily. Later, we learned that wet, torn asbestos can give people lung cancer and it has cost a considerable amount to try and clear it out.

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Response to Doctor_R (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:08 AM

24. There should be somebody in a canoe without a paddle in there somewhere...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:33 PM

28. EPA: Pollution from mine spill much worse than feared

According to preliminary testing data the EPA released Sunday, arsenic levels in the Durango area of the Animas River were, at their peak, 300 times the normal level, and lead was 3,500 times the normal level. Officials said those levels have dropped significantly since the plume moved through the area.

Both metals pose a significant danger to humans at high levels of concentration.

"Yes, those numbers are high and they seem scary," said Deborah McKean, chief of the Region 8 Toxicology and Human Health and Risk Assessment. "But it's not just a matter of toxicity of the chemicals, it's a matter of exposure."

She said the period of time those concentrations remain in one area is short.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/09/navajo-nation-epa-spill/31384515/

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:03 PM

29. Terrorists have infiltrated the EPA?

I read that ME terrorists as illegals are reconnoitering the southwest for conducting war, but this is shocking.

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Response to Lumster (Reply #29)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:09 PM

31. While I SUSPECT you're joshing, infiltrating a government grown so intrusive in our day-to-day...

... would give terrorists unparalleled inside access to... everything. At this point, I'll go with inadequate safeguards and shoddy selection of a contractor...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Reply #31)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:16 PM

32. Good morning.

If they can do it and get away with it, and under this administration they can do it and get away with it, they will do it and get away with it.

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Response to Lumster (Reply #32)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:18 PM

33. Soooo, maybe NOT joshing...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:19 PM

34. And just a couple months ago....

House panel approves $30.17B bill cutting EPA funds, blocking rules

The House Appropriations committee approved a $30.17 billion Interior and Environment spending bill on Tuesday that cuts Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) funding by 9 percent and blocks key Obama administration climate rules.

Lawmakers approved the bill on a mostly partyline vote, and much of the debate centered on measures in the bill targeting EPA policies. Republicans said the measures are necessary to rein in what committee Chairman Hal Rogers (R-Ky.) called an “unnecessary, job-killing regulatory agenda.”

“This administration has been hell-bent on implementing all sorts of regulations that are harmful to both our economy and our energy security,” Rogers said. “Bill-wide, we have included several important policy provisions aimed to stop this sort of overzealous bureaucratic red tape.”

Democrats slammed the bill for both the EPA funding levels — it cuts the agency’s funding by $718 million — and provisions blocking its rule-making, including a water oversight rule and forthcoming greenhouse gas regulations for power plants.


http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/245137-house-panel-approves-3017b-bill-to-cut-epa-funds-block-climate

So here we have a case where a private company left behind a mess to be cleaned up. The local bureaucracy actively worked to prevent the epa from taking early actions and now we have this mess.


Commissioner Scott Fetchenhier said, “Right now, our stance is that we don’t want Superfund to come in. We want the stakeholders’ approach. They’ve spent 20 years on it, and we want to give them one more chance. Let’s see how plugging the Red and Bonita works.”

Commissioner Ernest Kuhlman said, “Superfund designation could have irreversible affects for any community, especially a mining community. We’re not going to get any companies to invest or pursue mining in our area with a Superfund designation hanging over our heads.”

While the apparent shift in Silvertonian public opinion could have implications for the legal brinksmanship between the EPA and Sunnyside Gold, many residents said the lack of resolution surrounding metal pollution in the Animas had become embarrassing.
...
Silverton resident William Dodge said “there’s been testing for decades. Given the harm done to the environment, the Animas isn’t going to heal itself naturally. People say they’re concerned about the negative impression that Superfund might create. But Silverton has danced around the subject for so many years, as conditions just keep getting worse. I can’t imagine something more negative than what’s already happened,” he said.

http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20150214/NEWS01/150219763/Is-Silverton-ready-for-a-cleanup?

Maybe we might ask Mr Dodge if he imagine anything more negative now.

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Response to exindy (Reply #34)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 04:58 PM

35. S o in the first excerpt....

You are saying that witholding funding that had nothing to do with this particular effort somehow caused it.

In the second you are pointing out that the federal rules and regulations that come into effect when an area is designated as a superfund site make local governments leery of wanting federal government help.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #35)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 05:59 PM

42. Ahh, no.

The first excerpt is saying that the gop wants to defund and eliminate the epa and its oversight.

Ok, got that?

The second one is that those very local officials fought to STOP the epa from declaring it a superfund site.

Cause they thought it would be bad for bidness.

Ok, got that?

Try again.

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Response to exindy (Reply #42)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:11 PM

48. The EPA is raching beyond it's reasonable limits

Did the funding that was cut have any application to environmental/industrial cleanup operations? Congress does not simply alot a block of funding to any agency, funding is allocated to departments, programs, and projects administered by that agency. Each of these are line items in the overall federal budget. There is no evidence that congress cut any of the funding you are claiming.

You simply gloss over that these local officials knew that becoming a federal superfund business means a very real loss of jobs, industry, and growth in their community turning it into just another forgotten town like so many in the northeastern rust belt. It was a real concern, and not one that a progressive led government was willing to address.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #48)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:15 PM

49. well, if that's not an opinion in search of a rationalization

I guess giving you two tries was a mistake.

So how much loss of business is there with a killed river?

Take your time.

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Response to exindy (Reply #49)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:32 PM

55. The river isn't dead.

It merely has a high level of contaminants in it currently, resultant from a one time accidental release. It will heal. It may take a few years for everything to go back to normal, but other rivers have recovered from more prolonged and more extensive pollution.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #55)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:37 PM

57. Gold mine's toxic plume extends to Utah

The Gold King Mine's discharge raises the possibility of long-term damage from the toxic metals falling out of suspension as the plume slowly moves along the river.

"Sediment does settle," said EPA Region 8 administrator Shaun McGrath. "It settles down to the bottom of the river bed."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/10/navajo-nation-epa-mine-wastewater-spill/31399517/


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Response to exindy (Reply #57)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 07:00 PM

61. Some will, it won't really change much.

Rivers have had what we call contaminants, sometimes naturally much higher, on the river beds since there have been rivers. Have you ever panned for gold?

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 05:46 PM

38. we need a new federal agency

 

Who can handle this kind of work. Some new laws and stuff would probably help too.

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Response to mrwordsworth (Reply #38)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:02 PM

44. Yeah, then the gop can have another whipping boy.

If they refuse to fund and enforce the current laws -- that go back many years as a result of Love Canal, Times Beach, etc,

yeah, we need another f'in debate from the blowhard anti-gov't ...

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Response to mrwordsworth (Reply #38)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 07:22 PM

65. Because, as we all know, government employees never make mistakes....

and are never ever careless....

and are held to account for their actions...

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:01 PM

43. If a private company was responsible for the disaster

EPA officials would be attempting to prosecute those at fault and fine the company into bankruptcy.

But since it was our benevolent government masters who are responsible: nobody will be prosecuted, nobody will be fired, and most likely the guilty parties will be promoted.

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Response to Jack Burton (Reply #43)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:05 PM

47. You mean like all the actions taken against Freedom Industries?

As of January 10, the day following the chemical spill from Freedom Industries' Charleston facility, at least eight lawsuits had been filed against the chemical company. The lawsuits were filed on behalf of Charleston area businesses forced to close during the resulting state of emergency and on behalf of all West Virginia American Water customers. The plaintiffs have asked to be granted class action status and are seeking punitive damages and compensation for lost profits during the state of emergency. A further lawsuit was filed against Freedom Industries and West Virginia American Water on January 10 by a patient whose kidney transplant was cancelled due to the water outage.

By January 13, a Kanawha County judge had granted a temporary restraining order against Freedom Industries, and the number of lawsuits filed in the Kanawha County Circuit Court had risen to 19. On January 17, 2014, Freedom Industries filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, requiring a court–appointed trustee to run the company.

However, according to the Charleston Gazette, a company "whose characteristics are strikingly similar to Freedom Industries," Lexycon LLC, registered as a business with the West Virginia secretary of state about two months after Freedom Industries filed for bankruptcy. The company is registered at the same addresses and phone numbers as the former Freedom Industries, and is founded by a former Freedom executive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Elk_River_chemical_spill

Nothing to see here, move along.

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 08:27 PM

67. If you do a recap of this incident

it becomes very obvious we need the EPA now even more than in the past.

1. A private company did mining operations and as a byproduct left a massive amount of water heavily contaminated with toxic materials.

2. The company stored this contaminated water in a retention area and then walked away.

3. The EPA recognized that a potential problem was occurring and tried to declare the area as a superfund site.

4. For a number of years the local bureaucrats fought that designation because they believed it was detrimental to the economy of the area.

5. Finally the EPA gets the go-ahead to begin the cleanup operations and hires a contractor to do the job.

6. The contractor screws up and breaches the retention.

7. The spill will affect all the downstream areas, even other states (water doesn't agree with our boundaries).

Question: Who is to blame? The anti-gov't guy says it all falls on the EPA.

Sorry, can't see it.

Not only that, I can't see where this can be anything but a federal issue and one which needs federal regulations.

And federal funding. The people actually being harmed are the innocents.

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Response to exindy (Reply #67)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 08:48 PM

68. I just posted a news clipping for DIscussion and it grew like Topsy, a splendid thing, yes?

Thanks, all, for your participation!

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Response to Gamle-ged (Reply #68)

Mon Aug 10, 2015, 08:50 PM

69. Yes, it was.

You managed to get eleven entries into the sweepstakes.

Well done.

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:35 AM

70. The EPA is the biggest polluter in America.

The entire agency should be dismantled.

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Response to Gamle-ged (Original post)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 03:34 PM

71. This is something I would like to see investigations on

But I feel it will be a cover-up. Poisioning the water of the first legal cannabis state moves me in the direction of suspicion.

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #71)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 04:55 PM

72. HUH?! There are a lot of people who want the profitable ILLEGAL distribution to continue. The end...

... of prohibition killed the bootleggers, at least where governments didn't overtax the new, legal product and enable another bout of criminality...

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