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Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:15 PM

MH17 Experts: Strange That Radars Were Not Operational - ADL Netherlands

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/31544/Rampvlucht-MH17/article/detail/4230233/2016/01/22/Deskundigen-MH17-Vreemd-dat-radars-uit-stonden.dhtml More news on Ukraines missing MH-17 radar information: From Google translate. Experts MH17: Strange that radars were not operational

Piet van Genderen, Radar Expert University of Technology and Riemens, CEO of Air Traffic Control the Netherlands (LVNL) during the hearing on the policy response to the research about the MH17. © Reuters. It is strange that three radar systems in Ukraine were disabled for maintenance during the disaster of flight MH17 said radar expert Piet van Genderen at TU Delft on Friday in the lower house, where among other things the report by the Dutch Safety Board on disaster of flight MH17 is being discussed.

Markus Schiller, Missile Expert, ST Analytics GmbH, Munich, Pascal Paulissen (M), senior researcher Weapon Systems (principal investigator sub-report TNO) and Louk Absil (R), Director Force Protection, TNO during the hearing on the policy response to the research about the MH17 . © Reuters.

Van Genderen said that it is unlikely that there was planned maintenance occurring simultaneously on the three 'primary' radar systems. One explanation could be that there was a lack of spare parts to keep them running.

Netherlands has received information from Ukraine and Russia. Both countries have made video recordings available of the radar screens. However, the raw data of the primary radar data was not made available.
Russia has stated that it was not transferred because it was not saved, however, the three Ukrainian systems in the area stood out. According to Van Genderen, with closer examination of the raw data from the primary radar the chances would be greater of determining where the missile came from.

Survivors have therefore written a letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin. They ask him, including whether he is willing to do everything to recover radar and satellite images. The families of deceased passengers also previously wrote letters to Prime Minister Mark Rutte, the US Secretary of State John Kerry and President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko.

Expert of the Dutch Aerospace Centre, Michel Peters, claiming Friday that the damage to the plane can simply be caused by a BUK missile. ,, It is particularly in the light of the warhead. "

The Lower House is conducting talks all day with experts about MH17. These include the decision on the air routes above conflict, as well as radar and satellite data in the MH17 case and the future prosecution and trial of the perpetrators.

According to experts, airlines and services should be required to share information about the safety of flights. Bart de Vries, head of Flight Operations for KLM, announced that the airline needs good information on the safety of air routes. Each society would, he should have a system to receive this information and to respond to them.

Intelligence agencies now share information with airlines, but are not obliged to. KLM had in his own words had no information about the danger over eastern Ukraine, where flight MH17 ended by a rocket attack.
We had in the first 48 hours can do things differently, but I would surround myself so again with the same group of people

Dick Schoof, National Coordinator for Counterterrorism and Security
Prohibit
The role of the Dutch government is discussed. To set aviation lawyer Arthur Flieger that the Netherlands may simply prohibit airlines to fly over dangerous areas. Then there is clarity for everyone, and does not need any airline itself weigh the risks.

Réne Torenvlied, professor of public management at the University of Twente, says that the initial response to the disaster was difficult. Survivors also were dissatisfied with the actions of the government.

The government wants above all to learn from the mistakes. Until today there is aftercare. National Coordinator for Counterterrorism and Security, Dick Schoof: ,, We were in the first 48 hours can do things differently, but I would so again surround with the same group of people. "



More here from the Dutch press: http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2016/01/minimaal-vier-radarsystemen-moeten-beelden-hebben-van-ramp-mh17/# Additional new MH-17 news: From Google translate. A minimum of four radar systems should have images of MH17 disaster

By Michael van der Galien January 22, 2016

Professor and radar expert Piet van Genderen, TU Delft, says that at least four radars should have picked up the images of flight MH17 being downed.

That is a remarkable statement because it proves the government has no radar images and also has not been able to get their hands on them.

During a hearing in the House, Van Genderen literally said the following:

"The primary radar images of these four facilities are the most important because the chances are that they picked up the image of the BUK missile and it should be seen. Also, the disintegration of the aircraft is on these images, it should almost certainly be noticeable."

This involves three radar stations in Ukraine and one in Russia. All four facilities would see what brought down the plane. These countries, however, deny they have these images.

Van Genderen trust it for a penny:

"That these facilities were all out of operation or undergoing maintenance as Ukraine and Russia claim is not credible."

Satellite Expert Marco Langbroek adds that he finds it strange that the government is doing nothing to retrieve the satellite imagery.

"Three of these satellites covered Ukraine at the time of the crash. It seems to me that to see justice served there is every interest to have this information. Indeed, the evidence can thus be substantiated. "

And now it comes: Minister Ard van der Steur still maintains that he does not need more images of the flight. He states this while every expert says that these images are a) in existence and b) will prove conclusively who shot the aircraft down.



3rd Dutch source: http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/25060848/___Vier_civiele_radarsystemen_bij_MH17___.html New MH-17 news: From Google translate: Four radars were active for MH17 '
by Paul Eldering and Jolanda van der Graaf
THE HAGUE -
The shootdown of down MH17 was imaged by at least four radars in the vicinity said Professor and radar expert Piet van Genderen at TU Delft during a hearing in the Parliament. "The primary radar images of these four facilities are the most important because the chances are that the they picked up a BUK missile and it should be seen. Also, the disintegration of the aircraft is on these images, it should be almost certainly noticeable. "

It involves three Ukrainian systems - one in the Lugansk airport and two long-range radar in the vicinity - and a fourth Russian radar at Rostov.
"That all these facilities were all not in operation or under maintenance as Ukraine and Russia claim is not credible," said the professor.

Like Van Genderen, satellite expert Marco Langbroek believes that the images are crucial to the criminal investigation as to who the perpetrators are. According to Langbroek there must exist a large number of satellite images of the disaster. This includes the so-called Space Based Infrared Systems, the top-secret radar systems of the Americans. "Three of these satellites covered Ukraine at the time of the crash," said Langbroek. "It seems to me that justice has every interest to have this information. Indeed, the evidence can thus be substantiated."

According to Minister Van der Steur of Security and Justice, the Public Prosecutor's has no need for additional radar and satellite images. However, he said that if later it is different, "the government will do its utmost to make available relevant information to the Public Prosecution for the criminal investigation."
Despite the letter of Van der Steur, survivors, experts and also have MPs, still have serious doubts about the events surrounding the radar and satellite imagery.




The entire Dutch press is lit up with these stories about Ukraine not supplying the MH17 radar data and claiming all facilities were undergoing maintenance at the time. Of course, the entire US, UK, Canadian and Australian media have chosen to completely ignore this important new revelation.

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply MH17 Experts: Strange That Radars Were Not Operational - ADL Netherlands (Original post)
deckchairdanny Jan 2016 OP
spike61 Jan 2016 #1
Badsamm Jan 2016 #5
spike61 Jan 2016 #8
Navy Seabee Jan 2016 #11
Navy Seabee Jan 2016 #2
Billy Jingo Jan 2016 #3
Wheninrome Jan 2016 #4
deckchairdanny Jan 2016 #6
Wheninrome Jan 2016 #7
deckchairdanny Jan 2016 #18
Navy Seabee Jan 2016 #19
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #20
deckchairdanny Feb 2016 #33
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #34
spike61 Jan 2016 #9
Wheninrome Jan 2016 #13
Navy Seabee Jan 2016 #15
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #21
Navy Seabee Feb 2016 #25
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #28
Navy Seabee Feb 2016 #29
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #30
spike61 Jan 2016 #16
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #22
spike61 Feb 2016 #24
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #27
spike61 Feb 2016 #31
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #32
Navy Seabee Feb 2016 #26
Navy Seabee Jan 2016 #10
Wheninrome Jan 2016 #12
Navy Seabee Jan 2016 #14
Wheninrome Feb 2016 #23
spike61 Jan 2016 #17

Response to deckchairdanny (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:23 PM

1. Pro Russian rebels claimed credit for shooting down the jet. Give it up.

Sorry, comrade

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Response to spike61 (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:42 AM

5. Is that all you have?

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Response to Badsamm (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:33 AM

8. Thats all I need. They claimed it until they found out it was civilian

Nothing else has shown anything but russian complicity. The Russians even faked photos to try to get out of it.
No COMPETENT investigation shows anything pointing to Ukrainians.
The WORLD knows what happened and the Russian rebels admitted it, as well as others in the area.

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Response to Badsamm (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:53 AM

11. That's all that's needed sparky,

you know, the truth.

But you would rather take the word of a paid Russian troll who is a returning zombie, Clarity of Signal.

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Response to deckchairdanny (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 10:59 PM

2. Survivors?

What survivors? No passengers or crew members survived the shootdown by pro Russian terrorists.
Looks like your Kremlin paymasters slipped up and sent you false propaganda talking points.

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Response to deckchairdanny (Original post)

Sat Jan 30, 2016, 11:13 PM

3. And the Dutch were one of your last allies in the West

And look how you reward that loyalty.

Russia. You're an asshole.

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Response to deckchairdanny (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:26 AM

4. It's comical to see the response you got to this.

Facts are no longer wanted...the propaganda has become the truth. And that is why the western press is not covering it.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:06 AM

6. True that..... I see them trying to deny what really happened, but the wheels of time are spinning

in a different fashion this time around. For things to change, they have to expose themselves and I see people waking up to all the obvious over-the-top propaganda from the US media. We are living in interesting times due to the fact that social media and You Tube first person video is helping people see through the lies of the MSM. Things are starting the overlap and there is a new subculture coming of awake citizens who see the corruption on both sides of the aisle and across the media spectrum. They know what the real enemy is and they also know that the real victim..........is truth.

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Response to deckchairdanny (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:51 AM

7. To live in interesting times is an old Chinese curse.

But you are right, the curtain is being pulled back by the marvels of modern gadgets.
And not too soon for me.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:04 PM

18. Indeed it is and the desperation in a lot of commenters is showing.

I just wanted to point out to you that I can only see 4 of the total posts in this thread as I have all the trolls that were harassing me and jumping on my posts on ignore. Here's more on what is going on with the MH17 case. Once again the entire corrupt US media has chosen to ignore this story. Intentional commission is, in itself, another form of propaganda.


http://investmentwatchblog.com/mh17-australia-say-russia-not-to-blame-evidence-tampered-with/

The official Australian investigation into the cause of the crash of Malaysian Airlines MH17 have accused the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) of failing to provide “conclusive evidence” of what exactly destroyed the aircraft, and say that Russia did not shoot down the plane despite accusations to the contrary from DSB.

The senior Australian policeman investigating the MH17 crash, Detective Superintendent Andrew Donoghue, testified in an international court recently saying that a “tougher standard than the DSB report” is required before the criminal investigation can identify the weapon that caused the crash. Donoghue also testified that ten months after the crash, only half of the planes fuselage fragments were handed over for inspection and that “some fragments were not consistent with debris of the aircraft”.

Their criminal investigation will continue into 2016, Donoghue told the Victorian Coroners Court (lead image) on Tuesday morning. He and other international investigators are unconvinced by reports from the US and Ukrainian governments, and by the DSB, of a Buk missile firing. “Dutch prosecutors require conclusive evidence on other types of missile,” Donoghue said, intimating that “initial information that the aircraft was shot down by a surface to air missile” did not meet the Australian or international standard of evidence.

The Coroners Court in Melbourne is the first in the world to hold an inquest into the MH17 crash on July 17, 2014, and the cause of death of those on board. Iain West (right), the deputy state coroner presided, after the state coroner, Judge Ian Gray, withdrew at the last minute. The inquest opened for a single hour of hearing on Tuesday. A second hearing is scheduled for Wednesday, when West will announce his findings. In the UK, where an investigation into the death of 10 British nationals, is being supervised by Leicestershire coroner, Catherine Mason, all court proceedings have been suspended without a date being set for inquest. It was reported in the Melbourne court that British post-mortem experts participated in the Dutch investigations, alongside Australian, Dutch, and German teams, plus a joint Indonesian-Malaysian group.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2015/12/mh17-evidence-may-be-compromised-by-ukrainian-secret-service-telegraaf/

http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/12/15/law-expert-corrupt-mh17-evidence-will-make-prosecution-difficult/

http://yournewswire.com/mh17-australia-say-russia-not-to-blame-evidence-tampered-with/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/warning-of-corruption-in-flight-mh17-criminal-case-1.2468911

http://www.globalresearch.ca/dutch-experts-and-council-of-europe-slam-ukraines-investigations-into-mh17-and-killing-of-pro-russian-protesters/5496317

This should upset a few folks who believed the case was closed.

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Response to deckchairdanny (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:23 PM

19. The only desperation here, Clarity of Deck Chair, is coming from your pay masters,

the Kremlin.

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Response to deckchairdanny (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:30 AM

20. No it won't upset them...they just won't look.

But you did not miss anything by having them on ignore...just your slandered jingoistic rhetoric.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:29 PM

33. I'm assuming that since there are 32 comments now that that at least 20 of them are aimed

at me calling me a Russian troll or something similar. To really have your mind blown about MH17 check out this rare highly graphic video of the victims taken by a photographer on the day of the crash. These pics have seen very little daylight in the west.

Highly Graphic: Rarely Seen Video Of MH-17 Victims And Unexplained Anomalies
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fbf_1429163375#HAXZKRkpMkDvrtkH.99

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Response to deckchairdanny (Reply #33)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 08:20 PM

34. Yes you are correct and calling me one too.

Because I question the official story.
But thanks for that link...it was disturbing and raises even more questions.

I don't know what the truth is but I do know what it is not...and the official story is not the truth.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:38 AM

9. All the ACTUAL facts show pro russian rebels shot it down.

They claimed responsibility until told it was a civilian flight. Russia has been caught fabricating evidence and photos trying to deflect blame.
The article in this OP is even screwed up, alleging things that didnt even happen & written like a drunk did it. Much of it doesnt even make any sense. Every report out of Russia has been shown to be false
Its a joke, the world knows Russian backed thugs are to blame and no one will believe anything coming out of Russia now based on their history. And this incident IS history; nothing russian apologists say at this oint will change world opinon
But you guys enjoy your little coffee klatch.

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Response to spike61 (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 07:52 PM

13. Until they found it was a civilian flight?

You mean they had sophisticated surface to air missals and could not tell a civilian flight from a military one?
I find it hard to believe.

And you seem under the delusion your opinion is the same as world opinion. And that is a sure sign you have lost objectivity

I don't want to waste my time on it, but all the "evidence" you have comes from Ukraine or the western media. And you will claim they never lie...that is delusional and provably false.
But ideologues can never see beyond their ideology.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:14 PM

15. I get it now, you're another Russian troll pushing the Kremlin's line of propaganda.

Do you and Clarity of Deck Chair coordinate between yourselves and the Kremlin?

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Response to Navy Seabee (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:37 AM

21. And you are obviously a paranoid red baiter.

That thinks all you have to do is make wild claims like that and you can shut people down...because you think people fear it.
So Juvenal in an adult world.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:58 AM

25. Juvenile, comrade, not Juvenal.

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Response to Navy Seabee (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 10:01 AM

28. Well you said it and I agree.


Quotes
All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price.
It is difficult not to write satire.
It is not easy for men to rise whose qualities are thwarted by poverty.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 10:15 AM

29. What knowledge would that be comrade?

Kremlin approved knowledge?
You and Clarity of Deck Chair seem to have a connection, which seems to emanate from the Kremlin.

You 2, along with a couple of others here, are so transparent it's hilarious.

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Response to Navy Seabee (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 02:18 PM

30. Is that like Fox approved knowledge?

You seem to have a connection, which seems to emanate from the John Birch Society.
I have been around too long to fall for that crap.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:03 PM

16. No, the evidence comes from everyone BUT Russia.

Every time they come out with something it turns out to be a bad attempt at faking evidence.
Trained Russian troops werent operating the missile systems, as you already know but probably wont admit. Anyone can fire a missile from a mobile system. But it takes more skill than a bunch of well armed thugs have to properly use the system to actually ID the target. Aim & shoot where the radar says the plane is.
Again, they admitted they did it. Gleefully at that.
Only changed their story when they found out they had murdered a planeload of civilians.
And thats what most of the world knows and believes. And thats the way it will remain too. Every attempt to change the facts has fallen on its face.
Sorry, comrade

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Response to spike61 (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:47 AM

22. Everyone? Really?

But sorry it makes no sense.
When investigating a crime you look for motive...what possible motive could Russia have for shooting down that plane?
The only side with something to gain from it was the Ukraine...if they could blame it on the separatist, which they did.
And another thing they look at is opportunity. And it was Ukraine that sent the airliner over the contested territory.

So I call bullshit on it...and don't tell me the western media tells the truth because history both past and present shows us that they don't.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:17 AM

24. You keep saying "Russia". It was the rouges in Ukraine supported by Russia

It wasnt RUSSIA. Of course Russia would have rathered this never happen. And I wouldnt be surprised if the guys responsible were conveniently "removed" from the battlefield for screwing up. THEY admitted and bragged about it BEFORE Ukraine could blame anyone. Then they changed their tune when they realized they screwed up.
Certianly russia will do anything to cover up the rebel mistakes; because it was committed by the rebels THEY support
And the Russian media has shown that "truth" is an elusive term to them. For decades

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Response to spike61 (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 09:52 AM

27. So you are saying it was an accident then.

And one caused by someone sending a passenger plane over a combat zone...which by the way was an unusual path for them to take.
So who is responsible then?...who sent that passenger jet over that combat zone?...can you answer that?

And our media saying that the Russian media does not give us the truth is the pot calling the kettle black.
The truth is out there but we are unlikely to ever hear it. And if we do some will react just like you did to this OP...with ridicule and accusations of commie lovers.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 03:50 PM

31. No, they shot it down intentionally.

They were stupid enough to think it was a military plane. And thats from their OWN WORDS.
Russian supported rebels shot it down. No amount of smoke blowing from half-assed Russian media will change what the world already knows.

If you think the US media and Russian media are equally dishonest, then you're REALLY exposing where you are.

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Response to spike61 (Reply #31)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 04:29 PM

32. And you know this how?

Do you know the people who said that?...were you there?.
No you get your information from the press that feeds it to you, and you never question it. That is how they keep us stupid.
And they do it by creating dichotomy of good and evil...Russia bad, Ukrainian victims are good. It's a way to manipulate people as old as history itself.

I don't know what happened there and neither do you. But what I do know is that the plane was routed over hostile territory by someone and I know for sure it was not the separatist. And I know that those who would gain from that was the Ukrainians not Russia or the separatist.
And in the end game the western powers seek to gain by bringing the Ukraine into NATO right on the Russian boarder...something we promised not to do...and putting us in direct danger of starting a nuclear war.

Fuck that neocon shit...it's time to drive these madmen out of positions of power.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:59 AM

26. Not Russia comrade, pro Russian terrorists.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:52 AM

10. So you believe our paid Russian troll here, deckchairdanny, AKA,

the sock puppet of the now banned Clarity of Signal?
Even though the pro Russian terrorists admitted to shooting down that airliner, you still believe the Kremlin propaganda talking points brought to you here by dannyboy?

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Response to Navy Seabee (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 07:38 PM

12. Now why would the pro Russians admit to shooting it down?

It don't make any sense.
All of your information comes from the media...and the media is the propaganda tool.

I am amazed that McCarthyism is still alive and well.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:11 PM

14. The pro Russian terrorists mistook the airliner for an AN-26 cargo plane

http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-suggests-insurgents-shot-down-malaysia-plane-mistake-174750060.html#

BTW, take your McCarthyism comment and shove it in a deep orifice.

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Response to Navy Seabee (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 02:04 AM

23. Now why would they shoot down a cargo plane?

And you post a link as proof by this guy...
Dmitry Zaks
reporter at Agence France-Presse
UkraineMedia Production
Current
AFP
Education
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Websites
Company Website

But if the McCarthy shoe fits wear it...and it fits.

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Response to Wheninrome (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:05 PM

17. The idiots posted it on social media!

But I guess that was faked by the CIA, right?
Go hang out in the "truther" websites; plenty of like-minded droolers in those

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