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Thu May 19, 2016, 03:08 PM

U.S. Tanks Fail To Place in NATO Tank Competition



You have got to be kidding me? The Abrams is an awesome machine. The only reason this could possibly happen is a lack of training due to financial constraints.

The challenge featured seven tank platoons in total. Denmark, Germany, Italy, Slovenia and Poland all competed with one platoon, while the United States sent two. Each platoon included four tanks manned by four men. Germany took the gold in its Leopard 2A6 tanks, while the U.S. Army in the M1A2 Abrams didn’t place.

The original source w/lots of links @ http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2016/05/us-tanks-fail-to-place-in-nato-tank.html

19 replies, 1396 views

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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply U.S. Tanks Fail To Place in NATO Tank Competition (Original post)
sargentodiaz May 2016 OP
brew9876 May 2016 #1
New Deal Democrat May 2016 #2
Cave Dweller May 2016 #3
Banshee 3 Actual May 2016 #5
Cave Dweller May 2016 #12
uncledad May 2016 #16
travelman90069 May 2016 #4
Lira May 2016 #6
oldenuff35 May 2016 #7
fszwfnj May 2016 #8
Banshee 3 Actual May 2016 #9
Ben_Ghazi May 2016 #10
Doctor_R May 2016 #11
MercATC May 2016 #13
Banshee 3 Actual May 2016 #14
MercATC May 2016 #15
I814U2CY May 2016 #18
bpilgrim May 2016 #17
Banshee 3 Actual May 2016 #19

Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 03:09 PM

1. Thanks obama.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:52 PM

2. We need more flag officers

Then I'll bet RT would write nice things about our military.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 04:53 PM

3. Should have sent

Marines

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Response to Cave Dweller (Reply #3)

Thu May 19, 2016, 05:01 PM

5. LOL not so fast- the Sullivan cup competition 2 weeks ago?

Marines had their asses handed to them



by the North Carolina National Guard 30th Brigade
1-252 AR, 30th ABCT - NCARNG - "Old Hickory!"

Higher PT scores
Higher Marksmanship
Higher Tank Table Gunnery scores



In fact the West and East Coast USMC teams didn't even place in the top 5.

http://www.benning.army.mil/armor/sullivan/

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #5)

Thu May 19, 2016, 07:26 PM

12. OK, Should have contracted

out the Israelis

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Response to Cave Dweller (Reply #12)

Fri May 20, 2016, 06:38 AM

16. USMC has 3 tank battallions

The US Army has 2 Divisions and 14 Regiments. You can easily fit the total Marine tank force into one Army regiment.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)


Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 06:28 PM

6. Maybe it's a plot

to make them feel less secure under our protection so they'll start taking care of themselves.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 06:45 PM

7. Welcome to Obama's new and disproved military...

Where failure is valued by dear leader......

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 06:46 PM

8. Embarrassing

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 06:54 PM

9. IIRC we took ALL US Tanks out of Europe a year ago and only recently brought back some

There are only 29 Abrams Tanks in Europe right now, add to that they are at Graf as POMCUS style sets with no organic Tank Bn in USAREUR. Units rotate in to train on them

Far cry from the days of 3rd Armored divisions & the Black Horse 11ACR, and each US infantry divisions organic Tank bn in West Germany.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 07:08 PM

10. obamas legacy, a broken country, economy and military.

I not sure even trump can unravel the mess obama and his handlers put us in.

But at least men can go in showers with little girls.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 07:21 PM

11. That would make the U. S.

the "JV team," right?

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:34 PM

13. For our possible missions, tanks aren't the most effective tool.

Sure, if we have to go to war in Canada or Mexico they could be useful, but there will ne no more tank wars overseas.

Cruise missiles, drones and air power to soften the target. Well-trained and well-armored troops to take and hold ground. On the ground, mobility and armor is key, not huge firepower...that comes from above.

...so Europe might have a use for tanks, and it's spent money on them. We've spent money, at times unwisely (F-35), to project our power efficiently.

I believe that military nation-building is an outdated philosophy, so we don't NEED the best tanks in the world...or the same number of troops. If we can project air and sea superiority in limited theaters and have ground forces that are trained and supplied, I don't see an issue with this.

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Response to MercATC (Reply #13)

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:50 PM

14. Tanks have been used in Afghanistan by the USMC, Canadians & Danes

Leopard 2 by the Canadians(2A6M) and Danes (2A5) used quite effectively.

The USMC used M1A1's of D co 1st Tank Bn

Because a Tank has superior sights Thermal, Infrared and Day Optical and a Stabilized Gun accurate to 4,000 meters it is an effective overwatch and "Sniping by Tank" tool for a commander. Also it can take direct hits by Mortar bombs, Artillery shells from above unlike some bunkers and virtually impervious to RPG-7's

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #14)

Thu May 19, 2016, 11:02 PM

15. I didn't claim they were ineffective.

They're just not the best tool for most of our jobs any more.

...and while advanced tanks can resist mortar fire and artillery, I don't know many tanks that can survive an A-10 or a Javelin.

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Response to MercATC (Reply #15)

Fri May 20, 2016, 10:36 AM

18. Whatever war your currently fighting your next enemy is planning on the exact opposite.

 

Threats are not static. Enemies plan to capitalize on their strengths and exploit your weaknesses. Saying we don't need tanks is a delight to those who look forward to massed formations of regular troops.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Fri May 20, 2016, 08:15 AM

17. Have they ever placed before?

 

Anyone have a link to the history of these NATO competitions?

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Response to bpilgrim (Reply #17)

Fri May 20, 2016, 11:37 AM

19. There are several NATO competitions That I know of

Prix LeClerc which was Small Arms, Pistol, Submachine Gun, Automatic Rifle/Light Machine gun. Rifle Typically held at Grafenwoer 1950-1970(Might have run later than that also)

Competing started at each Infantry Company among the NATO army's until 1 national team from each NATO member competed

Cambrian Patrol in Wales(Mountaineering)-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cambrian_Patrol
CAT Canadian Army Trophy 1963-1991 (Tank Competition)-US team won in 1987
CANAM Cup (US/Canada only)1997-today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Army_Trophy

NATO Tiger meets (NATO air force units which have a tiger in their heraldry) have a fly off
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Tiger_Association
Stateside there are several including the

Sullivan Cup for Tankers

Logan-Duffy Match (69th NY vs 182nd MA small arms comp. Dates back to 1936)
http://dmna.ny.gov/news/?id=1286220509

Best Ranger
http://www.bestrangercompetition.com/about-best-ranger/facts/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Ranger_Competition


Sandhurst Competition held at USMA West Point
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandhurst_Competition


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