Sun May 22, 2016, 12:09 PM

Website Claims Muslim Pilot crashed Flight 804 as an Act of Islamic Jihad

BREAKING: Muslim Pilot Of Flight 804 Converted The Plane Into A Portable Mosque And Said Farewell Before He Crashed The Plane And Slaughtered Everyone

Wild story with link to Arabic piece @ The Call Of Death Embrace The Pilot Of The Egyptian Plane During His Last Supper”.

I have never heard of this site and only found it during my morning scan of Google+. As about as wild as one can imagine. It DOES have links to a supposed Arab-language news source claiming to support it but I didn't bother to try to translate it.

So far, everything I can find refers to smoke in the plane from a possible fire in a lavatory. That doesn't make a lot of sense because I always thought they were equipped with fire extinguishers. Surely they would have noticed and been able to put out a mere fire. And, would a bomb create such smoke?


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Reply Website Claims Muslim Pilot crashed Flight 804 as an Act of Islamic Jihad (Original post)
sargentodiaz May 2016 OP
Sebastopolitan May 2016 #1
Ben_Ghazi May 2016 #2
Sebastopolitan May 2016 #3
fncceo May 2016 #4
Sebastopolitan May 2016 #5

Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:12 PM

1. Your source is a freaking lunatic and a liar.

Walid Shoebat (Arabic: وليد شعيبات‎) is a Palestinian American, born in the West Bank to an American mother, who converted to Christianity from Islam. Shoebat has claimed that he used to be a Palestinian Liberation Organization terrorist in a CNN television interview. He is a self-proclaimed expert on the dangers of Islam and is also a strong supporter of the State of Israel. Shoebat has also claimed that he firebombed the Israeli bank Bank Leumi. However, after thoroughly investigating his claim, reporters and officials have found absolutely no evidence of any attack at all on the bank during the (1977-1979 period) period in which Shoebat claims to have carried out the attack. Shoebat's claim to have been a terrorist only rests upon his account of the purported bombing of Bank Leumi, but here again after checking its own files back to the 1970's, the bank shows no record of any bomb attack in the history of its Bethlehem branch, and specifically none in the relevant 1977-79 period in which Shoebat claims to have been active.

Shoebat has been introduced as a terrorism expert on several television programs, including appearances on CNN and its sister network HLN in 2006 and 2007.

Personal views
After the September 11 attacks in 2001, Shoebat claims that he became an active advocate against Islamism and a strong supporter of the State of Israel. Shoebat is the founder of the Walid Shoebat Foundation, an organization that claims to "fight for the Jewish people". He is sometimes paid for his appearances and solicits donations for the foundation. He says he formed the foundation to educate Americans as to why the US should support Israel. Shoebat has said that he believes "in a Greater Israel that includes Judea and Samaria, and by this I mean a Jewish state". He regards the Gaza Strip as Jewish by right and believes Israel should retake the territory saying, "If a Jew has no right to Gaza, then he has no right to Jaffa or Haifa either." He advocates that Israel deport anyone who denies its right to exist, "even if they were born there".

Shoebat gives lectures to local police departments regarding his belief that "most Muslims seek to impose Sharia in the United States. To prevent this, he said in an interview, he warns officers that "you need to look at the entire pool of Muslims in a community.'" According to The Washington Post, "When Shoebat spoke to the first annual South Dakota Fusion Center Conference in Sioux Falls . . . he told them to monitor Muslim student groups and local mosques and, if possible, tap their phones. 'You can find out a lot of information that way,' he said."

Shoebat argues that parallels exist between radical Islam and Nazism. He says, "Secular dogma like Nazism is less dangerous than Islamofascism that we see today ... because Islamofascism has a religious twist to it; it says 'God the Almighty ordered you to do this'.... It is trying to grow itself in fifty-five Muslim states. So potentially, you could have a success rate of several Nazi Germanys, if these people get their way."


Lack of evidence supporting autobiographical account

Shoebat stated that he threw a bomb at Bank Leumi, an Israeli bank, in Bethlehem. A 2008 Jerusalem Post article raised questions regarding the authenticity of Shoebat's account, and reported that Bank Leumi had no record of an attack on its Bethlehem branch between 1977 and 1979. In addition, Shoebat's uncle also denied that such an attack took place. Such an incident was also not reported by Israeli news outlets according to Omar Sacirbey's 2010 Washington Post article. The Jerusalem Post article reported a contradiction in Shoebat's response to the question whether word of the bombing made the news at the time. He replied, "I don't know. I didn't read the papers because I was in hiding for the next three days." However, according to the same article, he had told Britain's Sunday Telegraph in 2004 that "I was terribly relieved when I heard on the news later that evening that no one had been hurt or killed by my bomb." During his telephone interview, Shoebat was unable to recall the date or time of year of the attack. He told the Sunday Telegraph in 2004 that he was pressured by teachers to adopt an extreme Islamic philosophy. His uncle, who still lives in Beit Sahour, said religion did not play a major role in Walid's education, which he described as ideologically mild, and that there was no attack on Bank Leumi.

On April 9, 2008, Shoebat responded to the earlier Jerusalem Post's report on that paper's op-ed page. He wrote that the Jerusalem Post had been duped. According to him, the sources who disputed his own account of his upbringing (including his relatives) were themselves involved in terrorism. He said they want to see him discredited, probably because of his conversion to Christianity. He also states that reputable witnesses who could confirm the bombing operation of Bank Leumi were not interviewed. He also posted a response on his website.

On July 13, 2011, CNN's Anderson Cooper 360° reported an investigative piece into Walid Shoebat's claim to authority based on being a former terrorist. The report found that according to Israeli government officials, the bank that Walid Shoebat claimed to have attacked, and his own relatives, no record of his supposed terrorist history existed. Another of Shoebat's claims, that of a two-week term in an Israeli jail, was also unsubstantiated, with Israel having no record he was ever jailed. His cousin, interviewed in the report, stated that he had never known Shoebat to have ties to any movement, and that his claims of being a former terrorist were "for his own personal reasons". According to CNN, their reporters in the United States, Israel and the Palestinian territories found no evidence to support Shoebat's claims and "neither Shoebat nor his business partner provided any proof of Shoebat's involvement in terrorism".

Regarding CNN's inability to confirm his jail time, Shoebat wrote "Even if Mr. Griffin did check prison records, he was searching the wrong name. Had CNN examined our records that were offered to them, it will prove beyond doubt that Mr. Griffin made an error. When Mr. Shoebat was arrested he turned in his U.S. passport and not his birth certificate or I.D. card. His U.S. passport had a different last name."

Omar Sacirbey's 2010 Washington Post article reports that Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American–Islamic Relations, has questioned Shoebat's motives, saying that " Ergun Caner, Shoebat, and Kamal Saleem - along with others like them - belong to an 'industry' that is often perpetuated by fundamentalist Christians" and that people are doing this "to make money or get converts or to get some personal benefit". The article also reports that skeptics have questioned how Shoebat and others have been able to retain US citizenship if their stories of terrorist activities are true.

Charitable organization status

When the Post asked Shoebat whether the Walid Shoebat Foundation is a registered charity, he said that it was registered in Pennsylvania. The Pennsylvania Attorney General's Charitable Trusts and Organizations Section said it had no record of such a charity. When asked again, Shoebat said it was registered under a different name, but that he was not aware of the Foundation's registered name, nor any other details, which were known only to his manager. Dr. Joel Fishman of the Allegheny County Law Library in Pennsylvania expressed doubts about Walid Shoebat Foundation's donation process. He noted that if the money was being given to a registered charity, the charity would have to make annual reports to the state and federal government.

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Response to sargentodiaz (Original post)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:23 PM

2. Airlines should disclose if you have a muslim pilot.

Seems like a huge risk to passengers nowadays. It's the only demographic that has intentionally downed planes. Now on Egypt air I'm sure most pilots are Muslims but for us domestic flights it should be disclosed to passengers before boarding.

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Response to Ben_Ghazi (Reply #2)

Sun May 22, 2016, 01:44 PM

3. Or a German one. "The only demographic that has intentionally downed planes."

The co-pilot of a Germanwings flight that crashed into the French Alps may have practised a rapid descent only hours before he sent the plane plunging into the mountainside "intentionally", according to French investigators.

Evidence from the Flight Data Recorder (FDR) showed Andreas Lubitz had repeatedly changed the setting of the altitude controls during the plane's flight from Duesseldorf to Barcelona earlier, but as the plane was on autopilot its planned descent was not affected.

Later the same day Lubitz was alone in the cockpit during the flight from Barcelona back to Duesseldorf when he initiated the plane's dive. He refused to allow the captain back through the cockpit door or respond to air traffic control. Speculation over the reasons for his actions has centred around the co-pilot's mental well-being.

The German A320 Airbus flight 4U 9525 from Barcelona to Duesseldorf came down in a remote mountain valley in France on Tuesday 24 March, killing all 150 people on board.

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Response to Ben_Ghazi (Reply #2)

Mon May 23, 2016, 08:19 AM

4. In Germany in the '30s ...

... any Jewish doctor had to inform his patients he was Jewish before he could treat them.

So, you'll forgive me if your suggestion make me a tad uncomfortable.

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Response to fncceo (Reply #4)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:37 AM

5. You should feel uncomfortable.


Demonizing an entire nationality or religion is bigotry.

It would be dumb and bigoted to worry about German pilots because of the action of that guy, just as it's dumb and bigoted to worry about Muslim pilots because...they're Muslim.

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