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Mon Mar 20, 2017, 03:52 PM

Was it Putin's secret plan to have Trump increase our military budget by $53 billion


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Reply Was it Putin's secret plan to have Trump increase our military budget by $53 billion (Original post)
Badsamm Mar 2017 OP
liberalguy Mar 2017 #1
Badsamm Mar 2017 #2
liberalguy Mar 2017 #3
Badsamm Mar 2017 #4
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #6
liberalguy Mar 2017 #10
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #11
liberalguy Mar 2017 #12
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #13
liberalguy Mar 2017 #14
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #15
liberalguy Mar 2017 #16
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #17
liberalguy Mar 2017 #18
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #19
liberalguy Mar 2017 #20
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #21
liberalguy Mar 2017 #22
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #23
liberalguy Mar 2017 #24
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #25
liberalguy Mar 2017 #26
NeoKhan Mar 2017 #27
joannadufrane Mar 2017 #7
batcat Mar 2017 #5
pavulon-lives Mar 2017 #8
batcat Mar 2017 #9
joefriday6 Mar 2017 #28


Response to liberalguy (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 04:01 PM

2. so, you are saying it was Putin's plan to get Trump elected

So Trump could increase our military so Putin can then bankrupt his country again? That is Putin's big plan? Bankrupt his own country in a Cold War #2

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Response to Badsamm (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 04:15 PM

3. Really?

Please hand the computer to the nearest child who can explain the underlying point.

Reagan, it is said, destroyed the soviet bloc by bankrupting the USSR through an arms race (which we never stopped running)

In this context, It could be suggested that Putin is doing the same thing (Bankrupting the US by giving our insatiable appetite for weapons systems a reason for being.)

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 04:27 PM

4. Really? Trump is cutting other agencies to the benefit of the military

We were $20 trillion in debt without any help from the Russians. And you think Putin wants to try to get us in a spending war when we already dwarf their military budget?

Keep trying

Lolol

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 07:33 PM

6. Obviously you don't know the difference between discretionary spending and regular budget items.

 

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 09:30 PM

10. Dude, they're the same thing. Lol! Nt

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 10:18 PM

11. No, they're not. Per the constitution, the military cannot be mandatory/entitlement spending.

 

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 12:29 AM

12. You don't have the slightest idea of what your talking about

"Mandatory" i.e. "Entitlement" i.e. "non discretionary" spending is the non budget items such as interest on the debt and social security that government is obliged to pay and are not included in a budget. They are therefore not included in any useful graph of spending.

"Normal budget items" i.e. "discretionary" i.e. "The pie chart you saw that upset you so" are the kinds of items that congress appropriates with each budget. Items in this category including Big Bird and Big Bombs.

Gorbachev didn't spend the USSR into bankruptcy, he spent them into ungovernability. The public were unwilling to spend taxes for nothing of practical value to themselves because the wealth of the country was being siphoned into their own military complex until it became impossible to keep the breakaway republics manageable.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 09:57 AM

13. "congress appropriates with each budget" is not the same as non-discretionary spending.

 




16% of the total federal budget is quite different from the propagandist 54% you would have us believe.

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 10:07 AM

14. again with the non sequitur.

Congress allocates discretionary spending.

Two thirds of the pie you posted is mandatory. It has nothing to do with spending priorities.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 10:16 AM

15. I know Congress allocates discretionary spending. Congress allocates all spending

 

(except when Obama is giving money to for-profit corporations to keep his namesake law from failing before he leaves office)


But you're pulling the propaganda trick of lying with statistics.

You want military spending to appear to be 54% of the budget when it's really only 16% of the budget.

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #15)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 11:08 AM

16. The discretionary budget is all that Congress allocates

Of a $1.2t discretionary budget, Trump has asked for just under $700 billion for the military. Trump wants about 60% of the budget for the Pentagon. We get nothing for that.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 11:14 AM

17. You're dishonestly focusing on a subset of the budget.

 

We get nothing for that.

Lies, damned lies and you.

You get a TOTAL federal budget where the military accounts for only 16% of the budget. The other 86% is for all that bullshit lefty promised would make the US a more compassionate nation yet has driven nearly half the population into government dependency.

You're not going to be allowed to lie your way out of this.

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 04:33 PM

18. "I don't know why you're so upset that I spent 4x on hookers and blow than we spent on groceries!"

"Look at it this way; as a percentage of the money we spend on interest, taxes, child support, insurance and loan repayments, it's a trivial part of our budget!"

In the context of an annual budget, the only amount that matters is the discretionary one. Of every dollar that congress has the authority to allocate, they plan to direct $0.60 to the military.

That's what brought down the Soviet Union.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 04:57 PM

19. "the only amount that matters is the discretionary one."

 

Nonsense. Even entitlement spending can be cut. You just don't want it cut because that's how Dems keep their voters enslaved.


That's what brought down the Soviet Union.

What brought down the USSR was the failure of central planning -- of the sorts lefty insists we pursue here -- because bureaucrats and politicians are never as good at running people's lives as individuals making their own decisions.

Such is the case everywhere socialism is implemented.

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:11 PM

20. Show me how much Congress budgets for interest repayments

Not what government spent, but what Congress appropriated.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:13 PM

21. Congress doesn't have to appropriate debt payment. It can default any time it wants to,

 

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:19 PM

22. Not according to the constitution

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Speaking of which, the bonds held by the social security administration are exactly public debt as defined above.

May be time for a civics refresher.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #22)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:30 PM

23. Then that would apply to military spending.

 

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:34 PM

24. Okay, I'll play. What's the current balance of the military trust fund?

How much does the US government owe the pentagon? How much have they loaned us?

I'm generally dismissive of conservatives who claim to know a whole bunch about how the government works, and then every once in a while, someone comes along to ratchet my expectations downward.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #24)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:36 PM

25. There is no military trust fund. The government issues T-bills to cover deficits.

 

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Response to NeoKhan (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:39 PM

26. Someone buys them, right?

Those are the people to whom we owe debt that "shall not be questioned".

Those lenders include banks, nations, investors and US workers who pay social security taxes. Not the military, not Boeing and not Israel.

The repayment of those debts are mandatory, non-discretionary entitlements because the constitution says so. Congress can't legally default on them. Congress has the authority to allocate about one-third of our total outlays - the discretionary budget. Of that one-third, they plan to spend 60% on the military.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #26)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 05:43 PM

27. The same people who buy bonds are the same who buy T-bills.

 

Although, for the completeness of discussion, foreign nations do purchase bonds and bills.

National debt is national debt, regardless of the line item.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 07:51 PM

7. I was a leave. I just didn't see it as a personal attack

I also selected that the alert was sent to disrupt.

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Response to Badsamm (Original post)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 05:52 PM

5. In my opinion Putin never gave Trump a snowball's chance in hell of winning. ...

Last edited Mon Mar 20, 2017, 07:13 PM - Edit history (1)

If he did he is a sheer genius because nobody else felt an obnoxious ass like Trump could win.

Putin was just doing his best to weaken Hillary's presidency once she won. Unfortuately Hillary was simply such a poor candidate that the impossible happened and Trump won.

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Response to batcat (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 08:46 PM

8. This, i bet putin

is having an oh fuck moment. trump isn't bought and paid for like hillary. nothing stopping him from spending a shit ton on new ballistic missiles, replacing the ohio class, sticking his dick in turkey's ear.

ol putin may have misplayed this one.

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Response to pavulon-lives (Reply #8)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 09:23 PM

9. I don't think anybody owns Trump. That's why the political establishment in our nation ...

is scared to death of him. Normally politicians rise through the ranks and if they don't believe they should "go along to get along" they fall by the wayside.

Also a truly honest politician is relatively rare as politicians and their party fear such strange people. You have to be a little dishonest to rise very far in a political party. Now I'm not saying that Trump is totally honest by any means as to be a very successful businessman it helps to be a little dishonest.

So in my opinion Trump is his own man but also a little dishonest. He is also often an obnoxious ass. However if he can deliver on most of his promises and our economy comes roaring back and good well paying jobs are plentiful he will be viewed by many as a great President.

Hopefully Trump's big mouth will not get us into a major war. I don't expect Putin to walk all over Trump like he did Obama. I'm not sure how China will react to Trump and of course both North Korea and Iran are led by individuals who may not be totally rational.

We do live in interesting times.

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Response to batcat (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 10:08 PM

28. Mine too.

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