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Thu Feb 7, 2019, 11:25 PM

Christian group can bar gay student from leadership role, judge rules

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/christian-group-can-bar-gay-student-leadership-role-judge-rules-n968981
Christian group can bar gay student from leadership role, judge rules
A federal judge ruled the University of Iowa was wrong to penalize a Christian student group after it barred a gay student from a leadership position.
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IOWA CITY, Iowa - A federal judge has ruled that the University of Iowa was wrong to strip a Christian student group of its registered status after the organization barred a gay student from a leadership position.

U.S. District Judge Stephanie M. Rose on Wednesday granted a permanent injunction banning the university from rejecting the status of the group, Business Leaders in Christ, The Des Moines Register reported.

Rose found that the university had unevenly applied its human rights policy by allowing other groups to limit membership based on religious views, race, sex and other protected characteristics.

"Particularly when free speech is involved, the uneven application of any policy risks the most exacting standard of judicial scrutiny, which the defendants have failed to withstand," she said.

Business Leaders in Christ member Jake Estell said the group is happy with the outcome.

"This victory reinforces the commonsense idea that universities can't target religious groups for being religious," he said.

The university said it plans to adhere to the court's decision.
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Reply Christian group can bar gay student from leadership role, judge rules (Original post)
Da Mannn Feb 7 OP
imwithfred Feb 7 #1
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #6
AmandaCMatthews Feb 8 #2
Gunslinger201 Feb 8 #3
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #5
Currentsitguy Feb 8 #25
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #64
Currentsitguy Feb 8 #67
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #70
Currentsitguy Feb 8 #72
SatansSon666 Feb 9 #76
Banshee 3 Actual Feb 8 #51
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #63
AmandaCMatthews Feb 10 #77
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #4
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #7
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #8
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #9
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #10
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #11
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #12
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #13
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #14
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #15
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #16
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #17
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #19
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #22
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #21
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #23
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #24
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #29
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #30
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #31
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #47
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #48
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #49
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #50
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #52
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #53
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #54
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #55
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #56
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #57
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #58
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #59
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #60
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #61
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #62
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #65
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #66
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #68
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #69
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #71
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #73
Charlie Mike Feb 8 #74
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #75
MoshMasterD Feb 8 #40
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #46
Daves Not Here Man Feb 8 #18
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #20
FreeWheelBurning Feb 8 #26
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #27
FreeWheelBurning Feb 8 #28
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #32
FreeWheelBurning Feb 8 #33
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #34
FreeWheelBurning Feb 8 #35
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #36
FreeWheelBurning Feb 8 #37
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #38
FreeWheelBurning Feb 8 #39
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #41
FreeWheelBurning Feb 8 #42
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #44
MoshMasterD Feb 8 #43
SatansSon666 Feb 8 #45

Response to Da Mannn (Original post)

Thu Feb 7, 2019, 11:32 PM

1. ".....religious groups for being religious....."

About damned time this was recognized, and in other areas of American life too, not just college student organizations.

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:30 AM

6. Lol.

Now you can join all the "no-gays" clubs you want man.
It's about dammed time.

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Response to Da Mannn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:43 AM

2. This stuff has always puzzled me. I dont go

where I don’t belong. I don’t want men allowed everywhere I go, and I don’t go to places or try to join organizations that don’t want me. And if you know some group has some specific rules that you don’t like and might not be to your ‘advantage’, DON’T FUCKING JOIN.

I don’t think boys should be able to join the Girl Scouts either.

Whatever. There’s always someone who’ll try to crash the party, regardless if it’s Avon or Stag.

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Response to AmandaCMatthews (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:58 AM

3. You're not a Whacktivist

The Social Justice Warriors set out to infiltrate organizations that discriminated on terms that were objectionable....Country Clubs that wouldn't take Blacks or Jews

Shit like that, and since it was morally wrong to deny people entry on those grounds they were successful

After that they decided Men Only Clubs were next...they were pretty successful there too (are there women Masons? I don't know )

After that they went off the rails and tried to get creative...Religous Clubs Had to take Atheists etc

Its like the SPLC...over time they went full retard



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Response to AmandaCMatthews (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:02 AM

5. Like, No blacks!

Those blacks wanting to join clubs should just realize they don't belong and DON'T JOIN!!.


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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 09:54 AM

25. I take a more libertarian approach

Assuming we actually do have freedom of association what is wrong with an all white club? Or an all black, or all gay, or straight, or an all men, or women, etc?

If any group wants to set up a narrowly focused association why is that a problem, and what's to stop another group from setting up their own?

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:00 PM

64. I don't care for all "anything" clubs.

Sure, we are free to associate with who we want, but are we free to exclude anyone who also wants to associate?
In some cases, yes, it seems that way.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #64)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:03 PM

67. I'm not a joiner

But if I were I'd want to be able to be as selective as I wanted with what I chose.

For me there just doesn't seem to be a Dumb Polack's Club; at least no one else is willing to admit it to join up.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #67)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:25 PM

70. Me either.

I don't do things in groups unless it's random strangers all there for something like a concert.
Not gonna go run down the corner to protest stuff, not gonna try to stop anyone from doing it either.
I'm not on any teams for any sports or games. Sounds kind of boring but I just don't see the need for it.
Hang with friends mostly, usually a variation of the same 3-4 couples and their families.
I'd like to be in a band but haven't really been looking too hard for it.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #70)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:35 PM

72. Pretty much describes us.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #72)

Sat Feb 9, 2019, 06:51 AM

76. Most people are like that I'd assume.

Took us about a year after we moved here to get a circle going.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:57 PM

51. There are Black only clubs as well

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #51)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:59 PM

63. yeah, I'm not a fan.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 10, 2019, 09:22 PM

77. Youre one of those all-or-nothing who dont

really care what’s written because you can always finds way to make any topic as extreme as you can.

Race is not at all what anyone here was talking about. But you knew that, didn’t you? You just wanted to throw a stink bomb into the conversation.

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Response to Da Mannn (Original post)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 04:59 AM

4. Using an old book to justify bigotry.

Sad.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 07:22 AM

7. That sounds like bigotry against old books.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 07:35 AM

8. Hehe. Maybe.

If it's even possible to be bigoted against a book.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 07:37 AM

9. What is the expiration period for books?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 07:42 AM

10. When they get debunked.

Even then, they aren't expired, just moved I to the fiction section.
Like the bible.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 07:53 AM

11. What was debunked?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 07:55 AM

12. ??

Do you mean what was debunked from the bible?

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:00 AM

13. Whatever you are referring to in your previous posts: What has been debunked?

Specifics would be appreciated.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:06 AM

14. Well I was talking about the Bible.

You switched to books in general.
So I wasn't sure.

As for the bible, well, everything it says about the natural world and universe had been debunked.
Genesis, the exodus as well.
Every testable claim it makes fails miserably.

I don't think it's possible to debunk it any more than it already has been.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #14)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:09 AM

15. Specifics would be appreciated.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:17 AM

16. I'm not gonna debunk everything in Genesis.

Read it. You'll see.

Same with the exodus. No Jewish slaves in Egypt. Millions of people lost for 40 years in the desert with what should have been a 7 day walk, maximum, without even leaving a trace of their existence.
Stars aren't small and they can't fall from the sky.
There was never a 30,000 foot deep flood that covered the earth.
There was never a dome over the earth and space isn't filled with water.
There are no corners on the earth and you can't see the entire earth from a mountain.
Earth is round.
Earth orbits the sun.
A human can't live in a whales stomach for 3 days.

And on and on and on..
I'm not going to write everything that has been debunked. I'll be here all week typing that shit out.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:26 AM

17. I don't need to see "everything." Just specifics on the best debunking.

Keep in mind: your argument against miracles is fallacious. I'm not saying miracles do occur but if the definition of a miracle is, more or less, "A thing that cannot happen naturally" then arguing such things cannot happen naturally is not a proof against them, it is an acknowledgement of their originating premise.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:34 AM

19. The sun orbiting the earth isn't a miracle.

It's a claim made by people who didn't know better and has been debunked.
Along with every other non-miracle claim about the natural world and universe.
They got way more wrong than the got right.
That's fine, they were trying to understand.
They failed, but people like to pretend it's true.

Magic isn't real either and magic and miracles are pretty much the same thing and have pretty much the same definition.

Those things I listed and the many others clearly place the bible, especially the old testament, straight onto the fiction shelf.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 09:04 AM

22. That's a phenominological description.

The sun doesn't "rise" of "set" either, but the hyper-scientific meteorological services use it every day.



"Magic isn't real either and magic and miracles are pretty much the same thing and have pretty much the same definition."

Your declaration - as expressed - seems to be little more than an assertion borne of personal bias.

What is the definition of magic? I will suggest - and I'm open to counter arguments - that one definition might be: Phenomenon that cannot be accounted for within the properties of the physical universe.

In other words, it would be "magical" if a lump of dirt could be given the shape of a man and then made to recite a Shakespearean sonnet because nothing about dirt - clumps of carbon, nitrogen, etc. - lends itself to the myriad of functions that go into the recitation of sonnets: breath, apprehension of the words, memory, vocalizations, inflections, etc.

In fact, the more layers of the physical universe we peel away, the more such a thing would be magical because the carbon, nitrogen, etc. that make up the dirt is made up of only electrons, neutrons, and protons. Those are even less likely to recite a sonnet.

And what are those particles made up of? Even smaller particles and particle waves.

In fact, we can go so far down we will soon find ourselves dealing with little more than vibrating folds of space-time. It would be as if folding nd shaking a sheet of fabric a googolplex number of times could create make it recite poems.

Any man who suggests such a thing would be called an idiot and restrained for his own well being.

But that is exactly what happens every time a poem is written, recited, heard, and loved.

It makes absolutely no sense within the context of the known physical universe and its properties but it happens. Nothing about gluons and muons and other quantum particles suggests that it ought to be able to happen, but it is commonplace - and science is absolutely impotent to explain how, let alone why.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:59 AM

21. Here's some interesting exodus info.

Estimates are about 2 to 3 million people.
Wandering in the desert with no permanent residence.
Again. The desert.

Requirements PER DAY.
2,000 tons of food per day.
4,000 tons of wood per day for cooking food. Remember this is the desert, not a lush garden they were trampling through.
11 million gallons of water per day for drinking and basic washing.
When they would camp at night they would need about 750 square miles of campsite.
The line would be about 800 miles long. Even walking 5 abreast the first people would have arrived in the promised land before the last ones even left.
Thats if Moses had been able to read the sun and stars and k lnew how to find east. Apprently he didn't. The got lost for 40 fucking years.

So multiply those numbers by 14,600 and you'll get the total amount of supplies they needed.

Obviously impossible and never happened.


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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 09:06 AM

23. They didn't write the story ignorant of logistics. They were very cognizant of what it required to

stay alive.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #23)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 09:24 AM

24. I doubt any of them had seen 3 million people in one place before.

Just using water as an example.
Where did they find 11 million gallons of water per day in the desert?
Then distribute it to 3 million people.
Every day.
For 14000 days.
That's just water.
Nevermind the food..

Come on dude.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:06 AM

29. I'm not sure where you are deriving your figure of 3 million.

I'm seeing debates over the translation of "eleph" with numbers ranging as low as 300k to the higher limits of 2 million.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:10 AM

30. Some go as high as 6 million.

RSV Exodus 12:37 And the people of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. 

According to this passage 600,000 men descended from Yaacov left Egypt. If each man is married with an average of 5 children, this brings the entire population of Israel to 6,000,000.

I mean even if it was a million, those are still impossible numbers for people wandering the desert.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #30)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:19 AM

31. It'd take a miracle.

One thing is for certain: a bunch of goat herders wandered out of somewhere and completely displaced the long established city states and empires of the region.

Even the Gauls couldn't do that.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:15 PM

47. What's certain is the numbers are impossible.

If a miracle is required, then it means nothing.

If God wanted to use a miracle to get the Jews to the promised land, why make them wander the desert for 40 years and supply them with billions of tons of food and water and wood. You'd think he'd put a star in the sky for them to follow, he's done that before. You'd think they'd know the sun rises in the east and follow that direction to Jerusalem.

Miracles are one thing, miracles that make no sense are another.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:26 PM

48. That's not a proof against miracles.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #48)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:44 PM

49. No. Can't disprove miracles.

But you can examine them and determine how ridiculous they are compared to the options an entity like God would have.
He could have beamed them there.
He could have layer put a path.
Nope.
He just magically poofed tons of food and water and wood for them very day for 40 years while they walked around pissing and shitting all over the desert.
No mention of how they got their food and water. It doesn't say they were provided daily with everything they'd need to walk for another day. Then sleep, get up and poof.. more.food and water and wood.
Or.maybe it was all there waiting for them.. but since it took 40nyears to find Jerusalem, I doubt they would find their food every day. Unless god led them to their food, in which case he could ha e just led them straight to the promised land.

None of it makes any sense.
The exodus never happened. Even the Jews know that.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #49)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:48 PM

50. Did you read the part about punishing them and waiting for the entire generation to die off?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #50)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:00 PM

52. Why make them wander and provide them with food

For 40 years?
Just kill the ones he doesn't want.
He has no problem doing that.
Make children and babies suffer in the desert day after day waiting for old people to die.

Makes no sense.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #52)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:04 PM

53. To you.

If God - assuming there is a God - instantaneously affected all things as they "ought" to be there would be 1 thing missing...

...people. Or, at least, people as we know them.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #53)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:12 PM

54. It's just that God does the dumbest shit.

And it always backfires on him.
Nothing goes right for god in the Torah.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #54)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:16 PM

55. That's an opinion.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #55)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:20 PM

56. That's all it is anytime someone talks about the Bible.

Nobody can agree on any of it.
His track record as documented isn't the best.
Especially with humans.
Supposed to know everything yet humans continually piss him off, to the point of slaughtering them.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:23 PM

57. What the Bible and other such books do well is

portray the fact that humans seldom act in their own best interests even when they know better.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:29 PM

58. Yup.

The penalty is always death in the bible.
For things like gathering sticks on a certain day of the week.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:48 PM

59. And then there's the disciples threshing grain in their hands.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #59)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:50 PM

60. I think Jesus was cool with that though.

Favoritism, another one of god's awesome qualities.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #60)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:52 PM

61. That sounds more like a personal bias.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #61)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 02:58 PM

62. Maybe, they were his buddies afterall.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #62)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:01 PM

65. You seem angry on a personal level.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #65)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:02 PM

66. Nah. I'm not angry at anything.

Jesus preferred his buddies. Who doesn't?

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #66)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:04 PM

68. He's more famous for his acts of mercy.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #68)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:12 PM

69. Ya, he seemed like a nice fella.

A lot nicer than his dad, but there really is no worse you can do than what his dad did.
Let's also not forget about what he has planned next.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #69)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 03:34 PM

71. You say that like it's a bad thing.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #71)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:25 PM

73. Bad thing for who?

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #73)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:43 PM

74. Not for me. I look forward to sleeping in for a change.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #74)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 05:54 PM

75. Sleeping in...

a bed of fire, if God has his way with you. Who knows what punishment you may receive.

Maybe you will be granted the keys to the kingdom of heaven because you accepted Jesus all your life, or even at some point in your life or right at the end of your life, doesn't matter, KEYS!!

Maybe you'll be sent to live out your worst horror and hell for the rest of the passing of time, being burned and tortured and writhing in agony until the end of time. No release.

Luckily, none of those are true.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:50 PM

40. Many things you just point out as debunked....

Were actually used alagoricly, and metaphorically. You show your mind set is "All Christians are LEGALIST pissants." Try reading it with a different mind set instead of being literal, because being literal makes you as bad as the "Old Time Religion, It's Good Enough For Me" types.

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Response to MoshMasterD (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:06 PM

46. Yes and everyone has a different idea of what should be taken literally.

I say none of it.
Some say all.
Some mix and match.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:27 AM

18. there is a good chance Jesus did not walk on water.

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Response to Daves Not Here Man (Reply #18)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 08:37 AM

20. Yup. Pretty good chance.

But that falls under a miracle.
Even though it can be easily tested and debunked. All you need is a pool.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 10:55 AM

26. I'm not a religous person

Having said that, your test would mean nothing.

Jesus walking on water was a miracle. Just becuase you, I or someone else cannot repeat the miracle does not mean, logically speaking, that Jesus did not perform the miracle.

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:00 AM

27. Right.

That's why I said it falls under miracles.

Miracles have never been demonstrated and any that were presented as miracles were either coincidences or have been debunked.

It's safe to say that miracles do not happen.
At least not since Jesus and that's not a very good argument.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:03 AM

28. I was pointing out the logical fallacy of using a pool today to debunk a miracle from 2k years ago

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:29 AM

32. Well we can observe it's impossible today.

There is no reason to believe it was possible in the past.
When you have to bring magic into it it really makes no more sense.
Magic isn't real. Miracles have never been shown to be real.
So what's illogical about saying there is no evidence that buoyancy was different 2 thousand years ago or that miracles existed 2 thousand years ago?

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:40 AM

33. True but that is not my point

I am not talking about bouyancy today vs 2,000 years ago. I am not even arguing that a miracle ever took place.I intentionally mentioned that I am not religious so that you would know that I am not coming from that angle.

Reread what I wrote. I'm simply saying that failing to produce a miracle today does not mean a miracle never happened. This is a very simple exercise in logic.

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:49 AM

34. Then I refer you to Russells teapot

And Occam's razor.

Just because we can't say a miracle never happened doesn't mean one did happen either. In fact, it is more likely one never happened.
There is no reason to believe a miracle has ever happened or that natural laws were suspended in anyone's favor for any reason. There is no force that has ever been measured that would account for this suspension of natural laws.
Therefore the logical conclusion would be that it didn't happen, unless evidence is put forth.
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence either, but that doesn't necessarily apply here.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #34)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 11:56 AM

35. Sorry, but none of what you just posted debunks my point.

Failure to repeat an action does not mean the action never happened. That is all I said.

You keep wanting to broaden my point to what is provable and what is not. I have no interest in trying to prove a miracle happened.

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:07 PM

36. That can be said about anything.

It's pretty much a copout.

Just because we can't live in a whales stomach for 3 days, doesn't mean Jonah didn't.

Know what I mean?

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:21 PM

37. It is not a cop out. It is a simple exercise in logic

You are normally pretty good with logic and I am surprised that you cannot grasp the obvious here. Is it because religion is involved? Take the religious component out.

The fact is that logically speaking, failure to reproduce an event does not mean the event never happened. The event being religious or non-religious in nature does not make a differnce.

As regards to your example, that is true. Our inability to live in a whale's stomach does not mean that Jonah did not. Did Jonah live in a whale's stomach? Of course not but our inability to do so is not proof that Jonah did not.

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:30 PM

38. Unless you can articulate a mechanism that allows for miracles,

It is logical to assume they do not exist.

I can't prove he didn't walk on water, which brings us back to the teapot.
I can prove that nobody else on earth can and it has never been documented other than in a book where donkeys talk. Which brings us back to the razor.
I can't prove a donkey didn't talk either, back to the teapot.
Around and around and around we can go all day.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #38)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:37 PM

39. Again, I am not tyring to prove miracles have taken place

I don't know how many more times I have to say it. I have to admit I am growing weary of having to continuously repeat it.

I agree, logicaly speaking miracles do not exist. That does not change the fact that a failure to repoduce an event is not evidence that said event never took place.

We could stop going around and around if you just stuck to the subject of my post instead of trying to expand the subject to wether or not miracles exist. The existance or absence of miracles has nothing to do with the logic behind my statement. Your entire post argues against the existance of miracles and I never once opined that miracles exist.

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:52 PM

41. Well

If a natural phenomenon happened in the past we would have an explanation even if we couldn't recreate it.

Like pangea. We can't recreate it, but we still know it was there.
Now if someone said a genie broke the continents apart I wouldn't be able to prove that a genie didn't do it.
I could look at evidence of continental drift and the complete absence of evidence of genies and logically conclude that continental drift was responsible.
Same with Jesus walking on water.

Now you keep going with the not being able to prove something didn't happen in the past just because it can't happen today.
That's where the teapot comes in.





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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:54 PM

42. I think this conversation has run it's course

You want to debate something that I never said and I have no interest in defending something I never said.

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:02 PM

44. Your argument basically boils down to proving a negative.

The teapot.
I gave an example with pangea.
There is no way to prove something didn't happen in that regard.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 12:58 PM

43. When you say stomach....

Are you talking about the actual stomach with all that acid that would kill you in under a day, or the general vicinity like when you hold your belly if you have a tummy ache?

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Response to MoshMasterD (Reply #43)

Fri Feb 8, 2019, 01:02 PM

45. I don't know. They thought a whale was a fish back then,

So who knows what they meant.

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