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Mon Sep 9, 2019, 03:17 PM

House Democrats Launch Probe Into Whether Trump, Giuliani Pressured Ukraine to Target Biden


BY OLIVIA BEAVERS - 09/09/19 12:06 PM EDT 1,073
2,197

House Democrats are launching a broad investigation into whether President Trump, his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and others sought to exert pressure on the Ukrainian government to help Trump get reelected in 2020 by targeting a possible political opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden.

Three House committees sent joint letters to White House and State Department demanding documents related to whether Trump and Giuliani sought to pressure Ukraine to target Biden, a 2020 Democratic White House hopeful.

“A growing public record indicates that, for nearly two years, the President and his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, appear to have acted outside legitimate law enforcement and diplomatic channels to coerce the Ukrainian government into pursuing two politically-motivated investigations under the guise of anti-corruption activity,” the chairmen of the House Intelligence, Oversight and Reform, and Foreign Affairs panels wrote in a joint statement.

“As the 2020 election draws closer, President Trump and his personal attorney appear to have increased pressure on the Ukrainian government and its justice system in service of President Trump’s reelection campaign, and the White House and the State Department may be abetting this scheme,” they continued.

more...

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/460528-house-democrats-launch-sprawling-probe-into-whether-giuliani

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Reply House Democrats Launch Probe Into Whether Trump, Giuliani Pressured Ukraine to Target Biden (Original post)
RCW2014 Monday OP
foia Monday #1
Valishin Monday #2
New Deal Democrat Monday #4
Valishin Monday #6
New Deal Democrat Tuesday #13
oldenuff35 Tuesday #15
Valishin Wednesday #19
New Deal Democrat Wednesday #24
DDKick Monday #9
Banshee 3 Actual Tuesday #12
New Deal Democrat Tuesday #14
Nostrings Monday #3
KittyCatIdiots Monday #5
rahtruelies Monday #7
DDKick Monday #8
New Deal Democrat Tuesday #16
Spanish Ladies Tuesday #10
DavesNotHere Tuesday #11
New Deal Democrat Tuesday #17
DavesNotHere Tuesday #18
New Deal Democrat Wednesday #23
DavesNotHere Wednesday #25
New Deal Democrat Wednesday #26
DavesNotHere Wednesday #27
New Deal Democrat Wednesday #29
oflguy Wednesday #20
KittyCatIdiots Wednesday #28
oflguy Wednesday #21
oflguy Wednesday #22

Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 03:20 PM

1. Great. This will expose Biden's corruption with his son in Ukraine

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Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 04:03 PM

2. This is a bad idea for the dems BUT

even if it were true, what's the problem? If the US government has reason to believe something inappropriate occurred what's wrong with them asking for an investigation. As for who the target is, last I checked the person in question is a private citizen and at that point had not filed any paperwork to declare himself a candidate for any office.

So in the worse case scenario, where's the problem?

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Response to Valishin (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 05:29 PM

4. Let's say just for the sake of argument:

that Trump pressured Ukraine to launch two politically-motivated investigations that target his most likely rival in the presidential election next year. Are you OK with that?

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 06:26 PM

6. I don't care about the

Election part. If they had enough reason to believe inappropriate action was taken then the rest is irrelevant. The key is that the catalyst needs to stand on it's own regardless of politics.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 04:31 PM

13. You seem to be missing the politically motivated part of the issue.

Motivate: to provide with a motive, or a cause or reason to act; incite; impel.

What if they didn't have enough reason to believe these investigations would normally be justified if this were someone else besides Biden? What if their motive to act was purely political? You good with that? Let's say this is a hypothetical question.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 08:29 PM

15. We could tell all dems to stuff the Russia BS up u no where with a stick of 50% and light the fuse

We will watch from over there.

Any that survive can talk about this BS as if they are totally innocent.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #13)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 01:48 AM

19. As I said

the catalyst must stand on its on merit. So in such a case no that would not be ok, however that doesn't appear to be the case. If there was reason regardless of politics then the politics are irrelevant and the US should request such an investigation.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #19)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 08:50 AM

24. But there is no reason regardless of politics.

I have come to that conclusion after a little research.

https://www.discussionist.com/1014475345#post23

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 06:38 PM

9. The left complaining about politically motivated investigations is comical.

If Biden abused his position it should be exposed, it doesn't matter by who does it?

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 10:58 AM

12. What like getting foreigner Chis Steele to make a dossier to discredit trump was OK?

Politically motivated?

Everything's political

what law may be broken is the question not lets invent a law to retroactively apply only to one side

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 05:08 PM

14. Not the same at all.

A private US investigative firm, Fusion GPS, was hired first by a conservative political website, and then by the DNC, to conduct political opposition research on Trump. Fusion GPS subcontracted Steele's private firm to compile the dossier.

"Foreigner Chris Steele" was a private British citizen at the time. So yes, that was just fine.

Now we apparently have a sitting US president pressuring a foreign government, Ukraine, to launch investigations against his most likely political opponent for reelection. There is a meaningful difference, don't you agree?

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Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 05:14 PM

3. In furtherance of the same narrative they're playing footsie with mccabe to present.

Last edited Mon Sep 9, 2019, 06:43 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Nostrings (Reply #3)


Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 06:30 PM

7. faux news alert

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Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2019, 06:36 PM

8. How about the house investigate Biden themselves.

Its the same old BS from democrats nevermind the crime lets shoot the messenger. Russia gate 2.0 they don't care about the details of the crimes just worried about who exposed their corruption.

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Response to DDKick (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 09:10 PM

16. That is a good question.

If there is to be an investigation of Biden, you have to wonder why a foreign government is doing it and not an entity of our own institutions. Exactly what is is that Biden is supposed to have done?

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Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 01:02 AM

10. Yes

Finally we’ll get to the bottom of this collusion

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Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 08:24 AM

11. Biden is accused of using his official position to help his sons company

And Dems don’t care. Trump is accused of using his position to investigate possible corruption by a US Vice President and Dems are pissed. This isn’t going to turn out like Dems hope it will.

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 09:12 PM

17. How did he use his official position to help his son's company?

I haven't seen anything specific here.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 10, 2019, 09:39 PM

18. Biden threatened to withhold US foreign aid unless

They got rid of their chief prosecutor. The chief prosecutor happened to be making life difficult for a Ukrainian oligarch. The same oligarch that controlled the gas company that Biden’s son was a board member of. It was about a 600k per year job that Biden seemed wholly unqualified for (though he did have on his resume “just got kicked out of the navy for doing blow”)...

But then, you already knew all of this.

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 08:43 AM

23. This is bogus.

A realistic version of these events has been common knowledge for years.

Hunter Biden did hold a directorship with a natural gas company called Burisma Holdings, beginning in the spring of 2014. Ukraine’s prosecutor general Viktor Shokin was ousted as prosecutor in 2016.

So why hasn't the US House of Representatives ever looked into this? Republicans had control there until the beginning of this year. Is it because they were too busy smearing candidate Hillary with the Benghazi investigations? Why hasn't this been investigated by any other US entity? It's because this sham has been fabricated to benefit Trump in the general election next year.

Joe Biden did urge Ukraine to fire its top prosecutor, with the threat of withholding U.S. aid. But that was the position of the wider U.S. government. Western leaders and institutions were largely united in seeking Shokin’s removal, arguing that he was not pursuing corruption cases aggressively.

There is no evidence to support the idea that Joe Biden advocated with his son's interests in mind. It's not even clear that the company was actively under investigation at that time, or that a change in prosecutors benefited it.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 10:08 AM

25. Okay, first of all

“Why haven’t they looked into this before” is not a defense, but you already knew that too.

We know that what Biden actually did, so it’s just a question of his motivations.

I’m sure the fact that his son got the job just 4 DAYS before his father went to the Ukraine and made the threat is simply a remarkable coincidence. I’m not sure anyone would be able to prove it in a court of law, but it’s as much evidence as Mueller came up with to prove “Russian collusion”.

I’d be interested to know if the threat to withhold foreign aid was his idea or if they were instructions from Obama.

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:02 PM

26. Why haven't they looked into this before?

That's a valid question. All of this has been common knowledge for years. If there's a legitimate case to be made against Biden, why is it that nobody was compelled to make it until now during the election season? The answer is, there is not a legitimate case. Trump is motivated by politics.

And why has Trump pressured Ukraine to go after a former US VP? Is there no US institution that will take up his case? The US Senate? The DOJ? The answer is no, there is not. That's because there is not a legitimate case. The House investigation will make this clear.

The timing of Hunter Biden's appointment to the Burisma Holdings board is irrelevant. This is partly because the probe into the company - Burisma Holdings, owned by Mykola Zlochevsky - had been long dormant.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:22 PM

27. Asking why something wasnt investigated is valid

But it’s not the same as drawing the conclusion that no one must have done anything illegal.

And the timing you call irrelevant is the same sort of circumstantial evidence that the Dems are using to say Trump colluded with Russia.

Trump has asked that they look into it. If he threatened to withhold, say, a billion dollars in foreign aid, do you think that would make your argument stronger or weaker?

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 11:19 PM

29. I am not saying no one did anything illegal.

How could I know that? You can't prove a negative. What I'm saying is there's no evidence to support the notion that Biden did anything to break the law.

As you said, Trump has asked Ukraine to look into it. You don't seem to think there's anything fishy about that. I think it's rotten to the core.

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Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 01:59 AM

20. Keep trying

Maybe one day you people will find something Trump did wrong

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Response to oflguy (Reply #20)


Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:02 AM

21. Define "Pressure"

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Response to RCW2014 (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:07 AM

22. Why was Biden colluding with Russia?

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