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Sat Nov 30, 2019, 11:18 PM

Supreme Court set to hear first major gun control case since 2010

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/30/supreme-court-set-hear-first-major-gun-control-cas/
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The Supreme Court on Monday is set to hear its first major Second Amendment case in nearly a decade, weighing a challenge against a regulation in New York City that prevented licensed firearm owners from taking their weapons in and out of the city.

The legal battle was brought by gun rights activists after a federal appeals court upheld a city ordinance that allowed licensed residents to take their firearms outside of their homes to only seven shooting ranges within the city, thus prohibiting them from transporting the weapons to a second home or a gun range outside city limits.

New York City, though, changed the regulation to allow licensed firearm owners to transport their handguns out of the city. Officials contend the change settles the lawsuit and want the court to dismiss the challenge as moot.

The case, however, gives the high court a shot at expanding gun rights. It’s the first time since 2010 the justices will grapple with the reach of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

“There’s reason to believe that … they want to take the case because there are enough conservative justices now on the court that they want to re-examine how the court defined gun rights back in 2008,” said Robert Spitzer, a professor at SUNY Cortland who has written extensively on the politics of gun control.

“To me, they haven’t gone through all this trouble just to then brush the case off,” he said.
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5-4. Trump is the BEST President EVER!

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Reply Supreme Court set to hear first major gun control case since 2010 (Original post)
Da Mannn Nov 30 OP
Crazy D Dec 1 #1
Model10RB Dec 1 #3
Crazy D Dec 1 #5
His Daughter Dec 1 #6
Crazy D Dec 1 #7
His Daughter Dec 1 #9
Crazy D Dec 1 #10
Model10RB Dec 1 #12
His Daughter Dec 1 #13
Crazy D Dec 1 #14
His Daughter Dec 1 #15
Model10RB Dec 1 #16
Crazy D Dec 1 #17
Muddling Through Dec 1 #18
His Daughter Dec 1 #19
His Daughter Dec 1 #8
Red Bull Dec 1 #11
FreeWheelBurning Dec 1 #2
Model10RB Dec 1 #4

Response to Da Mannn (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 12:20 AM

1. I don't have my hopes high on this case

I expect a VERY narrowly tailored decision that will only deal with NYC, and not be helpful to the rest of the country when it comes to gun rights.

I also ain't got my hopes up on Roberts. He could rule against gun rights "just because" he's trying to be the courts "moderate voice".

I'd rather see some of California's gun laws make it to the USSC. The "California approved Pistol" act comes to mind 1st, it's a defacto gun ban forcing manufacturers to send guns in for "safety approval"....even models that just get upgrades like the Glock series. That's the only reason companies like Glock and S&W keep some older models in production, guns like the Glock Gen 3 series are on the approved list but the Gen 5's ain't.

Side note.....it took Glock 5 generations to get "Glock Perfection"......John Mose Browning did it in 1 (the 1911 ....2 if we count the Browning Hi Power )

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Response to Crazy D (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 08:21 AM

3. Any firearm that has lent it's name to two holes in buttocks has something wrong...

'Glock leg' and 'Glock ass' being common terms in the culture surrounding the love of plastic wonder nines.

Yes, yes, I know... if it is handled correctly, it is a perfectly safe firearm.

Same could be said of the Chevy Corvair, machines without safety guards, etc.

But the room for error is way smaller on a Glock design than on many (mostly more classic) designs.

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Response to Model10RB (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:55 AM

5. I avoided buying a Glock for years

Between the lack of a safety and they just feeling like a brick I saved my money. I finally did get a 19 Gen 4 a couple years ago on a sale, I've fired it 300 rounds and it still feels like a brick.

I got a S&W 2.0 Compact (15 rounds, same size as a 19) last year and like it better, better trigger IMO and you can get a frame mounted safety version.

I still prefer guns with hammers on them, but could see carrying the S&W in a end of the world situation, it is lighter than steel framed pistols

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Response to Model10RB (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:42 AM

6. Have to wonder why there has to be a special 12 lb trigger for NYPD

The rest of us manage them just fine at stock or less. Law enforcement, military, and civilians. Clearly part of it is a training issue and another part bad leadership.

Keep your bugger hook off the bang switch until it is actually time to shoot.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:49 AM

7. When NYC switched from revolvers to semi auto's they required any semi auto to be

Double action only. The 12lb Glock trigger is suppose to mimic that.

Given most NYC cops ain't gun guys and only fire their pistols to qualify once a year its a wonder most shootings there involve massive amounts of rounds expended.

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Response to Crazy D (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:56 AM

9. Maybe they are getting free practice in when they can

The reality is that firearms usage is rare for law enforcement. One could argue there are more important tools that an individual officer should have. However, there are times nothing else will do and you need to be competent with it the tool.

I also feel that current training and proficiency standards are too low. The ones in California are way too easy and unions fight making them any better. Yet I sometimes see officers struggle to make them.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:51 AM

10. Model10RB is our resident retired NYC LEO

He would know more about NYC training. I "think" outside of the yearly requirements NYPD have to pay for their own ammo, and you know when someone has to do that they tend to not do it.

If I had my way LEO's would fire 100 rounds a month minimum, realistic "combat" training in some type of "Hogans Alley" range.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 03:33 PM

12. If I only practice several times a year, I usually score 240+ out of 250.

Not sure why, but the old days, the high score was 300, now it is 250. It's a very easy course of fire.

Oh, and good luck getting onto Hogan's Alley when you just feel like it. Just for practice. Very rare.

Where I live now, in a rural area, most of the shooters are very good. If I am on the range with retired guys from the city, who qualify once a year for HR218, it is really scary.

I doubt they were ever any better. The guys I shot along side back in the day were mostly very scary.

For the most part, in the urban/suburban areas of NY, the shooting sucks. Yes, most departments I know of will try to find you a box or so a month free to practice with (larger departments mostly) but that is not a popular pastime in said areas.

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Response to Model10RB (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 04:46 PM

13. My take is that there are shooting enthusiasts and non-shooters in law enforcement

The difference is obvious at the range. Its a fine motor skill that needs to be practiced to be kept current. Once a year shooters are always going to have a hard time qualifying. If you have to practice on your own dime and on your own time, it could be hard for a young cop with a family.

Dad shot Hogan's Alley. Said it was fun. I have never had nor do I expect to have that opportunity.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 04:54 PM

14. I think it also depends on what part of the country a police dept. is located in.

Anti gun areas like NYC and LA seem to frown on LEO's being proficient with firearms, pro gun area's you find more active gun owners on the force.

Years ago I had access to the Cincinnati PD's "Hogans Alley" (it was located in the suburbs outside of Cincy) and you could tell CPD officers from depts. in the burbs, suburban LEO's had more gun guys and better scores.....hell.....I beat 1/2 the CPD guys running the course, (I used to do IDPA when it 1st started 30 years ago and the CPD range was where the events were held once every 3 months)

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Response to Crazy D (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 05:08 PM

15. LA as an area is more of a mixed bag.

Since it includes some really open areas. LASD seems to take shooting proficiency more seriously than many others and has a big facility in Valencia(?).

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 05:28 PM

16. The new thing is Sim Guns. Real people in a scenario, not pop-ups.

I just do not like Sims, they use real guns that are some how adapted.

The range Captain went ballistic when he found a box of real ammo at the Sim prep area.

I don't know the technology, but if Sims were a safe way to practice, why did he get so upset?

Besides, you have to wear those stupid masks. I was really embarrassed last year when I missed a bad guy's gun in a Sim scenario car stop. Right near the stick shift, not even hidden.

The masks moved my glasses enough that everything looked like a Fun House mirror. Could not see shit.

Haven't been to a Hogan's Alley since I left the downstate NY area. I felt better shooting at pop up targets, not real people.

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Response to Model10RB (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 05:58 PM

17. IIRR you can use real ammo in a sim modified gun.

Recoil and extractor springs are the difference IIRR. Sim rounds are usually lower powered than standard rounds so you have to run lighter rounds than the normal weight ones.

You could chamber and fire several standard rounds in a sim moded gun before you screwed up the springs

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Response to Model10RB (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 06:18 PM

18. Simunitions, like anything else, have their place.

The weapons do shoot a modified round of colored paint or chalk. I don't know if they will actually shoot a live round; don't wanna find out.

Their strength is that they allow participants to see actual shot placement in dynamic situations instead of pop-up targets. Being color coded; they allow the detection of "blue on blue" fire. I got a couple of blue streaks on my arm when a "teammate" wasn't practicing good muzzle discipline.

They can allow a sense of complacency as they aren't "real bullets" and a participant can "blow off" being shot.

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Response to Model10RB (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 07:30 PM

19. The Rangemaster was right. In those kind of training scenarios functional ammuntion has to be

banished. Same thing with most NRA classes. No live ammo in the classroom for any reason. Army does the same thing early on.

You may recall a civilian academy in Florida where a civilian was killed with what should have been a blank or empty gun. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/us/woman-is-accidentally-killed-by-police-officer-playing-bad-guy-at-training-academy-in-florida.html

I could easily see how a hockey style mask would interfere with your vision. When in similar circumstances I wore a lower face/nose mask with safety goggles and a helmet. However, you need to train like you fight.

Training practices are clearly changing over time. Simunitons are indeed all the rage in. Most people after CCW want to do what equates to live fire scenarios. Basic courses are left to the Boy Scout.

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Response to Crazy D (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:49 AM

8. I expect some justices to argue it is moot at this point

There will also be a move to make it a very narrow decision, as you stated

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Response to Crazy D (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 12:35 PM

11. Have a 1911 and Hi Power

Would take a Gen 1 Glock over either. Not that I don't like or trust them but Glock was the next evaluation and put the other 2 out to pasture.

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Response to Da Mannn (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 08:17 AM

2. "The case, however, gives the high court a shot at expanding gun rights"

This line is complete BS. The case will not expand gun rights. The decision will either preserve our inalienable rights or it will take them away.

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Response to Da Mannn (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 08:28 AM

4. My concern is that this case is going to suck all the pro-carry-rights air out of the room

for some time, and more worthy cases will be back-burnered for a while.

NY and CA both have very bizarre and unique gun laws, and deciding cases from either of these states runs the risk of having little to no effect on the rest of the US.

Unless another Scalia appears tomorrow, the decision will be narrowly crafted to have little to no effect on anyone. Remember that the law being challenged has already been repealed in NY, leaving the case moot as it applies to the actual gun owning citizen.

Unless the Sullivan Law is greatly cut back or declared unconstitutional, little will change in NYC or NYS, and either way, little will change for the rest of the country.

NOTE: keep in mind that NY CITY and NY STATE have different gun laws. Some parts of the laws are similar, but many parts are quite different.

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