Politicspolitics

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:20 PM

Are you against or pro universal healthcare?


17 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Pro - Universal Healthcare
11 (65%)
Against
5 (29%)
I eat kittens ( please don't!)
1 (6%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

66 replies, 1163 views

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Arrow 66 replies Author Time Post
Reply Are you against or pro universal healthcare? (Original post)
Attera Mar 2017 OP
Attera Mar 2017 #1
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #37
Magyar Heidinn Mar 2017 #40
Shkreli Mar 2017 #2
Attera Mar 2017 #3
The Center Holds Mar 2017 #4
brewens1 Mar 2017 #5
Jake Mar 2017 #13
The Center Holds Mar 2017 #17
John Q Citizen Mar 2017 #53
frankt8242 Mar 2017 #6
Attera Mar 2017 #7
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #16
Attera Mar 2017 #18
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #19
Attera Mar 2017 #20
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #22
Attera Mar 2017 #23
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #24
Attera Mar 2017 #25
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #26
Attera Mar 2017 #30
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #33
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #38
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #31
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #39
Da Mannn Mar 2017 #8
Attera Mar 2017 #9
Da Mannn Mar 2017 #10
Attera Mar 2017 #21
Da Mannn Mar 2017 #28
Attera Mar 2017 #29
Da Mannn Mar 2017 #32
Attera Mar 2017 #63
liberalguy Mar 2017 #44
Da Mannn Mar 2017 #54
liberalguy Mar 2017 #55
WritelyWrong Mar 2017 #11
frankt8242 Mar 2017 #12
Jake Mar 2017 #15
Currentsitguy Mar 2017 #43
Juan Rico Mar 2017 #14
Attera Mar 2017 #27
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #36
Squeek Mar 2017 #41
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #42
Squeek Mar 2017 #45
The Big Red Machine Mar 2017 #34
Troll2 Mar 2017 #35
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #46
Squeek Mar 2017 #47
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #48
Squeek Mar 2017 #50
mrwordsworth Mar 2017 #49
saspamco Mar 2017 #51
John Q Citizen Mar 2017 #52
myohmy Mar 2017 #56
KAT Mar 2017 #57
USNRET1988 Mar 2017 #59
KAT Mar 2017 #60
Lil Marky Mar 2017 #58
Valishin Mar 2017 #61
Attera Mar 2017 #62
Valishin Mar 2017 #64
Attera Mar 2017 #65
Valishin Mar 2017 #66

Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:23 PM

1. Vote for you Hungarian ..etc

You know you escaped Hungry to be here, just as me. What made you such an extreme person?? Do you not remember the cold? The hunger? The rationalized food stamps for EVERYONE??.

WAS my dad working as a teacher should feel that he was a slave??

Should listening to Voice of America be punished by death??


Then don't vote that none existed. Because they do not know any better.

. And they will come back. As we allow it.

Slaughters...

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Response to Attera (Reply #1)


Response to Attera (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 12:09 AM

40. On nem Magyar?

My mileage varies drastically from yours, growing up in communist Hungary was nothing like you describe.

 Kádár János towed the Russian line from 1956 until the end. With  Kádár at the wheel the Russians felt comfortable as long as the countries resources were shipped east, Hungary was spared the hard line Russian experience. By the early 1960's Hungary was much better off than most of the bloc countries. 

I was born in 1963 and left Hungary in 1979,  in those short 16 years I never once was cold, never once hungry nor ever seen a rationalized food stamp. My parents both worked, a machinist and a telephone switch operator. In 1968 my father built a new house (no more thatch roof) on our small farm. We fished and hunted rabbits, ducks, pheasants and roe. Yes, my father legally owned guns. Had goats, pigs, chickens and raised mink for extra forint.
We also had horses and competed in mounted archery.  During the 1980's I know, through relatives, that there was some shortages of grains, meats and other food stuffs as Russia required more as they were in failure. 

Looks and sounds good on the surface, however, Kádár was only partially moderate but still a communist.

Education: While I will not argue that the communists provide a very good education there was much more to it than the general subjects. 
The socialist/communist agenda was prevalent in all aspects of schooling. 
Membership and participation in the young drummers and pioneers gave a definite advantage to those seeking advanced technical trade and professional type education opportunities. University education required membership in the young communist league for most.  

Free speech,  Nem, anything other than total admiration for the hammer and sickle was not tolerated. No questions, no opinions. 

Travel outside of the country was pretty much restricted to other bloc countries and was dependent on recommendation from your employer. As far as I knew, party members were the only ones approved to travel to non block countries.

Health care was value based and was poor at best. One could only hope for good health in retirement as your value was sub negative when it came to health care.  Doctors were crooked as a boars cock, holding open a trouser pocket with one hand and pointing into it with the other. 








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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:24 PM

2. Pro healthcare but I'm not paying for it. I vote work camps for Democrats or whatever but I'm tapped

out.

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Response to Shkreli (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:27 PM

3. So am I . We still pay for medicare/Medicaid.

It's happening already.


We may never get the chance to use it though.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:29 PM

4. I'm open to a Medicare-for-all type system if someone could show how it will be paid for.

Right now, Medicare is grossly underfunded and going to implode in a few years, because Washington is short-sighted and does not understand demographics.

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Response to The Center Holds (Reply #4)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:35 PM

5. The choice is between a huge bureaucracy designed to provide health care and a huge

bureaucracy designed to deny health care to maximize profits, the way I see it. I'll go with the former.

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Response to brewens1 (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:05 PM

13. Which one is designed to provide health care?

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Response to brewens1 (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:37 PM

17. Medicare does not "provide" the health care. It pays for it. It reimburses (sometimes) the

health care providers and negotiates (mandates) lower payments.

At least that's what it is now.

Are you saying we need some sort of NHS system?

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Response to The Center Holds (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 02:35 PM

53. You are describing a "Fee for service" system. It's also what Canada does.

It has good points and bad points. It could be improved upon by rewarding medical outcomes instead of incentivising more services provided, whether needed or not.

It's far cheaper, a single payer fee for service system, than what we do now. And it's cheaper for ever.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:36 PM

6. Perhaps a better question might be:

 

Are you OK with allowing people to suffer and die because they cannot afford to pay for decent health care..??

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Response to frankt8242 (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:40 PM

7. I'm not OK with it. I have never been m.

I'm not ok. With animals beings staved or thirsted to death either.


They're special kind of sociopaths to fort that bill.


It's party crossing too.

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Response to Attera (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:22 PM

16. Er....you're not OK with the who now?

I'm not ok. With animals beings staved or thirsted to death either.


They're special kind of sociopaths to fort that bill.


It's party crossing too.

Um....a little clarification, please? Animals being thirsted to death? A bill being "forted"? Parties being crossed?

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Response to Juan Rico (Reply #16)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:46 PM

18. You are an atheist

Aren't you? Or am I we wrong?

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Response to Attera (Reply #18)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:47 PM

19. Yes, I am. And.....?

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Response to Juan Rico (Reply #19)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:48 PM

20. And there is no point discussing spirituality

If you deny it all..


Is it?


You tell me

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Response to Attera (Reply #20)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:53 PM

22. When did spirituality come into this discussion? There's been no mention of the supernatural.

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Response to Juan Rico (Reply #22)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:55 PM

23. Since forever

Where have you been????

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Response to Attera (Reply #23)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:58 PM

24. Where was the supenatural mentioned in this thread about universal health care?

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Response to Juan Rico (Reply #24)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:01 PM

25. Seek and you shall find

It's there​

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Response to Attera (Reply #25)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:02 PM

26. Link, please?

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Response to Juan Rico (Reply #26)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:06 PM

30. Do your own work

Your God doesn't want us suffering


:'(

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Response to Attera (Reply #30)


Response to Attera (Reply #30)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:36 PM

38. Ah, ah, ah....you're not following the rules. As you asserted something, it's up to you to provide

evidence supporting it.



Your God doesn't want us suffering

I have a God? .Really?

What is His, Her, or It's name?

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Response to Juan Rico (Reply #24)


Response to USNRET1988 (Reply #31)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:37 PM

39. That would explain a lot.....

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:41 PM

8. Those who can afford healthcare should provide their own

either through a job, or purchased from PRIVATE companies.

Only those who need help/unemployed/etc should be covered by medicare.

People who can afford their own health care but refuse are on their own.

Govt provided universal heath care is a power grab. Those who provide all can deny all. Medicine does not need to be in the hands of the govt.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:43 PM

9. That's sick

Do you want your lunch waitress to give you Cdiff??? Because she can , under your parameters.

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Response to Attera (Reply #9)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:49 PM

10. if she cannot provide her own insurance, then medicare is the fallback

if she can afford insurance then either her company or herself needs to provide it.

0bama care identified 30 million people without insurance. The rest of the private system worked, so the govt only need to cover those who need it: the 30 million.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #10)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:49 PM

21. Medicare doesn't hit until you're 65+

You better get your waitresses old enough



OMG LMAO!!!!!!

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Response to Attera (Reply #21)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:02 PM

28. It is a program that already exists and has a track record.

it would be easier to expand an existing program like medicare than to create a whole new bureaucracy.

Medicare is a simple solution. Doctors have worked with it for 50-60 years. and you can buy supplemental insurance much cheaper than regular insurance.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:04 PM

29. BS

Do you want your fellow (born here) citizens sick, laid off????


WTF are you talking about???

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Response to Attera (Reply #29)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:09 PM

32. expanding Medicare is simpler than creating a new program.

0bama care failed. expenses have gone through the roof.

medicare is a program that doctors have worked with for 60 years. Just expand it to cover the uninsured.

and PS. disagree with me all you want. I still like you.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #32)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 08:49 AM

63. I think you're right on.

That might actually work.

Are you honestly how expect anything like that to pass in a conservative majority Congress though? They don't even like Trumpcare. They would never vote for an expansion of Medicare or Medicaid on federal level. Hell, even the Dems will vote against it.

Like I said it before, healthcare has become a commodity. And HEALTH is the most precious thing one person can have. We shouldn't gamble with it on the street market, if we care about our fellow citizens.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 09:44 AM

44. Should the government sell coverage to your waitress...

... if she can't afford private insurance?

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 09:35 PM

54. Just expand medicade. It already exists, no new programs needed

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #54)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 11:33 PM

55. That's exactly what I'm asking. Should she pay part of her small income to medicaid...

... to help support this pre-existing system?

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:51 PM

11. How much could we save on healthcare costs

if we did away with the middle men (insurance companies and pharmaceutical distributors) and allowed the government to negotiate drug prices directly with the drug makers. Why are drugs and health costs so much lower in other countries?

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Response to WritelyWrong (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:56 PM

12. Because, capitalism is, in fact, ...

 

A greed based economic system...In order for it to work in the interests of the populace, it needs to be moderated with some measures of socialistic rationality...Listening to the fools on BOTH extremes is indeed an "exercize in futility"...

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Response to WritelyWrong (Reply #11)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:16 PM

15. You are not eliminating any middle men

You are just proposing substituting in several hundred comities with zero interest in either saving money or providing care.

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Response to WritelyWrong (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 09:21 AM

43. "Why are drugs and health costs so much lower in other countries?"

Because we prop up the unrealistically low prices other countries are paying. Like it or not, not even the most radical plans call for the takeover of things like the pharmaceutical industry. Those are public investor owned companies. Cut into their bottom line too much and you can expect investor flight. No profits equals no investors which in turn equals no new drugs or treatments.

One of the big problems is that so called "lifestyle" drugs, which carry huge margins, have oftentimes been classified as medically necessary. Despite what mental health pros tell us, nobody "needs" Viagra.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 01:10 PM

14. I side with Patrick Stewart.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:02 PM

27. So we now beat you 50/1

What do you have to say??

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Response to Attera (Reply #27)


Response to USNRET1988 (Reply #36)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 09:11 AM

41. Hahahaha!!!! Reminds me

of something I saw on Facebook on St Patricks day...




Two men were sitting next to each other at a bar. After a while, one guy looks at the other and says, "I can't help but think, from listening to you, that you're from Ireland."

The other guy responds proudly, "Yes, that I am!"

The first guy says, "So am I! And where abouts from Ireland might you be?"

The other guy answers, "I'm from Dublin, I am."

The first guy responds, "Sure and begora, and so am I! And what street did you live on in Dublin?"

The other guy says, "A lovely little area it was, I lived on McCleary Street in the old central part of town."

The first guy says, "Faith & it's a small world, so did I! And to what school would you have been going?"

The other guy answers, "Well now, I went to St. Mary's of course."

The first guy gets really excited, and says, "And so did I. Tell me, what year did you graduate?"

The other guy answers, "Well, now, I graduated in 1964."

The first guy exclaims, "The Good Lord must be smiling down upon us! I can hardly believe our good luck at winding up in the same bar tonight. Can you believe it, I graduated from St. Mary's in 1964 my own self."

About this time, another guy walks into the bar, sits down, and orders a beer. The bartender walks over shaking his head & mutters, "It's going to be a long night tonight."

The guy asks, "Why do you say that?"

"The Murphy twins are drunk again."

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Response to Squeek (Reply #41)


Response to USNRET1988 (Reply #42)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 09:47 AM

45. An eye roll?

Aw, man...

I laughed like hell when I read it.

But then, I'm easily amused.


Also...two self responses? hhahahahah

OK I'm waiting for the fateful day when there's a thread with 100 posts, and all the replies are hers, to herself.

That would be epic

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:12 PM

34. If we must save every fetus, we can't neglect the actual living, can we?

 

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 02:15 PM

35. We have universal healthcare now. Everybody gets healthcare of some sort.

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Response to Attera (Original post)


Response to USNRET1988 (Reply #46)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 01:26 PM

47. So I'm wondering...

What kind of wine goes best with kittens?

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Response to Squeek (Reply #47)


Response to USNRET1988 (Reply #48)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 01:50 PM

50. Awesome!

Light and fruity...won't overpower the delicate flavor of roast Meow!

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 01:47 PM

49. I am pro universal individual freedom

And anti cronyism, government waste and abuse and giving a group who is incredibly unpopular in both parties more power and responsibility.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 01:59 PM

51. We pay for it, one way or another. Might as well be in favor of health care for all.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 02:26 PM

52. That is consistent with what Pew finds when they poll. And it's consistent with

what I found when I knocked doors for three years full time for health care reform.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Mon Mar 20, 2017, 11:56 PM

56. in any system...

...the healthy are going to be paying for the sick...the question is, how much?

...do you want to pay for people receiving delayed basic healthcare in an expensive hospital emergency room setting or in an early, less-expensive, doctor/clinic setting?

...if you're healthy and working, you're going to directly or indirectly pay one way or the other...

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 12:06 AM

57. What about universal happy hours?

 

Bet you didn't feel well today. Hope nobody else suffered because of your "fun" yesterday.

Attera (9,924 posts)
5. Ugh

Well, if they silence me

I die as a human. I let you win.

I still keep myself and my councioinciness.

Attera (9,924 posts)
7. I'm not OK with it. I have never been m.

I'm not ok. With animals beings staved or thirsted to death either.

They're special kind of sociopaths to fort that bill.

It's party crossing too.

Response to Attera (Original post)

Sun Mar 19, 2017, 12:02 PM

Attera (9,924 posts)
27. So we now beat you 50/1

What do you have to say??

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Response to KAT (Reply #57)


Response to USNRET1988 (Reply #59)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 01:39 PM

60. There were some good ones for sure.

 

Thanks for preserving that one. Sunday morning parties!

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 12:51 AM

58. For it and I eat kittens.

If not universal healthcare, then I would at least like to see a so-called "public option" which anyone can get and that is eligible for subsidies based on income. But people would still pay for their insurance like they do under the ACA.

If we're going to be paying the most per capita for healthcare, then it might as well be effective healthcare that allows people to see a doctor before they become so sick that the costs shoot up to treat them. The only other option would be to allow hospitals to turn under-insured and uninsured people away if they cannot pay up front. Some people may have no problems living in a country like that, but I that is not how I want my country to be. I suspect a good portion of the population doesn't wan't to live a country like that either.

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Response to Attera (Original post)

Tue Mar 21, 2017, 02:00 PM

61. Universal as in

everyone has it sure that's a nice idea. Universal as in it is provided by government, not until healthcare is entirely provided by robots.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #61)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 08:43 AM

62. Cost should be controlled by someone or something.

The market* and making healthcare a commodity, will only drive cost up.

If not the Gov, who do you suggest we should put in charge of our healthcare? You have to remember, most of the country lives paycheck to paycheck.

Are you ok with them dying because of lack of healthcare? Cancers diagnosed early can (most of the time ) be cured, or life extended , for example. Uninsured folks forgo annual check ups or doctors visits, until it's too late, and little can be done, due to lack of insurance/money. And they die.

How can anyone American be ok with that? That's beyond my comprehension.

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Response to Attera (Reply #62)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 09:34 AM

64. Costs are controlled

by supply and demand. The problem with healthcare is that it keeps getting better with technology and thus people keep expecting an increase in the care provided without an increase in the cost.

"If not the Gov, who do you suggest we should put in charge of our healthcare? You have to remember, most of the country lives paycheck to paycheck."
The consumer and the service providers

"Are you ok with them dying because of lack of healthcare?"

No one has ever died due to lack of healthcare. They may have died from something healthcare could treat and potential extend or make more comfortable but that isn't the same thing as dying due to lack of healthcare. Understanding that healthcare is not a right is important.

"How can anyone American be ok with that?"
Because every individual lives and dies as a result of their own choices. When those choices are forced upon them that's where we have a problem.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #64)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 09:36 AM

65. That's just nonsense.

The problem with healthcare is that it keeps getting better with technology and thus people keep expecting an increase in the care provided without an increase in the cost.

Since when a 5 min doctor visit, billed at $150 to $500 is "healthcare keeping better with technology"???

Are you even being serious now?

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Response to Attera (Reply #65)

Wed Mar 22, 2017, 09:46 AM

66. Are you claiming

that technology has not improved healthcare since in lets say the past 50 years?

I literally just got back from the Dr this morning to confirm flu vaccine and get Tamiflu because I am within that early window (rest of the family already went through it). They did a nasal swab and took less than 10 min to confirm the results had me out of there in under 20 then by the time I drove from the Dr office to Walgreens my prescription was ready. That's just an example of convenience and doesn't even get into how technology has made it possible to be vastly more accurate in diagnostics and light years ahead in treatment.

Now if you want to claim that the prices should be coming down to maintain a set standard like computers do that is one thing feel free to make such an argument, but to claim that healthcare isn't continuing to get better with technology is just foolishness.

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