Politics

Mon May 19, 2014, 10:50 AM

I wish to publicly apologize for my uncivil hidden post.

I apologize for the rude and uncivil post that I had hidden. I understand why it was hidden. I will try very hard not to do something like it again.

As usual, there is good news and bad news. First the bad news: I had a post hidden for being uncivil. This greatly bothers me. I really believe in the spirit this new site is trying to promote. I know there are, and will be, strong disagreements between the various groups here. But I wish us to remain civil. I sometimes post things that raise uncomfortable questions. I may sometimes pose the question in strong terms to get a response. I am interested in how those on both sides of an issue think. Especially if they can express a viewpoint in civil terms. I slipped, and allowed a rude and uncivil approach and terms into my post. Although I may have utter contempt for some for some posters and their ideas, I should never let that slip into uncivil discourse. Again, I apologize.

The good news: The civility concept may be catching on here better than I thought. I made a disparaging remark offensive to the poor and some of those on both the left and right, and I was called on it. Now I hope to see the same results when rude and offensive names are hurled at conservatives. I expect to see things like "nutjobs" and "gun-humpers" removed from posts in the future. We'll see.

As for my part, I will try to be more civil. Thank you.

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply I wish to publicly apologize for my uncivil hidden post. (Original post)
fools_gold May 2014 OP
birthmark2 May 2014 #1
Cardinals1982 May 2014 #2
fools_gold May 2014 #5
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #3
cowman_in_NV May 2014 #4
Conserve1 May 2014 #6
cowman_in_NV May 2014 #11
fools_gold May 2014 #9
cowman_in_NV May 2014 #12
Dusty Weatherwax May 2014 #13
cowman_in_NV May 2014 #21
Dusty Weatherwax May 2014 #22
Guyzilla May 2014 #7
Scooter Trash May 2014 #8
Dusty Weatherwax May 2014 #10
sadie May 2014 #14
sabrina May 2014 #24
sadie May 2014 #28
skidmore01 May 2014 #15
liberated May 2014 #31
akaConcernedCanuk May 2014 #16
Buford Justice May 2014 #17
WildCherry May 2014 #18
Epicurus May 2014 #19
fools_gold May 2014 #20
Isidore May 2014 #29
Epicurus May 2014 #30
Glue May 2014 #23
bpilgrim May 2014 #25
Wheninrome May 2014 #26
Sibelian the White May 2014 #27
nopoliticalsaviors May 2014 #32
AnnieHowe May 2014 #34
NO_NO_DOWN_BADBOY May 2014 #33
AnnieHowe May 2014 #35
Tolk May 2014 #36

Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 10:52 AM

1. I hope you're right about civility

And very classy post.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 10:53 AM

2. Well, good luck. I hope we can all stop having contempt for one another

 

A bit more empathy may be called for. We shall see how it goes. I'm guilty of it too.

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Response to Cardinals1982 (Reply #2)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:11 AM

5. Maybe my choice of using the word "contempt" was wrong?

There may be a better word. What I meant was that many of the left here show open (what I call) contempt for capitalism, Koch brothers, Bush and Cheney, 1%ers, and other right wing or conservative ideas and policies. Similarly, conservatives generally express (what I call) contempt for socialism, redistribution of wealth, and certain other policies and positions of those on the left. Maybe "strong disagreement" would be a better choice of word?

But, the word seems to fit the case.
contempt (kənˈtɛmpt)

— n
1. the attitude or feeling of a person towards a person or thing that he considers worthless or despicable; scorn
2. the state of being scorned; disgrace (esp in the phrase hold in contempt )
3. wilful disregard of or disrespect for the authority of a court of law or legislative body: contempt of court
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/contempt

Hoping we can all stop having contempt for one another is an admirable goal, but I think it is difficult to achieve here given the division of our philosophies. But maybe at least we can keep the disagreement civil rather than scornful.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 10:56 AM

3. I was in the majority on a jury that hid an insult to conservatives

So it happens. How often, I don't know.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:00 AM

4. I'm there with you bro.

 

I had 2 posts hidden within a short period of time, which earned me a brief time out to reflect on my transgressions.
I have said I will tone it down a bit, and I like to think that this site will become better for liberals and conservatives alike.

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Response to cowman_in_NV (Reply #4)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:16 AM

6. hidden

I voted not to hide it..BTW.. although it was kinda rude.. lol

It is already getting better.. There are a lot of Progressives that will discuss civilly and are not Hostile just because of political leanings ..

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Response to Conserve1 (Reply #6)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:21 AM

11. Thank you.

 

And upon reflection, I was kinda rude, and I did learn something.
You're right, I do see a leveling off of the nasty and rude comments, I really think this grand experiment of Skinner and Co. is going to work out well, judging by the comments on DU, I think they're really worried.

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Response to cowman_in_NV (Reply #4)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:19 AM

9. I completely understand

I will admit that I was the one that alerted on one of your posts. The one where you basically called a poster a liar for saying he wouldn't kill to protect his wife. Now, I am a very strong 2nd amendment supporter, NRA Benefactor Life Member, carry daily, and like to play with NFA items. But when I saw your post it struck me as uncivil and I would really like to nip things like that in the bud here, and lets have civil discussions and stop using insulting terms like "gun-humper" and others. In that spirit I alerted on your post.

And then I slipped and did the same thing!

I trust we will both learn from our transgressions and make this a nicer place than some others I frequent.

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Response to fools_gold (Reply #9)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:25 AM

12. No problem.

 

I like to think that in the same situation as you, I would do the same thing.
I did learn a valuable lesson, let's keep it civil, on both sides of the political spectrum, and, who knows, maybe, just maybe, we, as Americans. regardless of political bent, will come to a consensus on how to improve our beloved country and move forward.
If not, then I cry for our country and where it's headed for.

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Response to fools_gold (Reply #9)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:30 AM

13. It was rude -

Thanks for alerting on it. I debated alerting, but I decided to name it, rather than alert on it. I actually didn't know it was hidden until I was looking for it later to use it in another thread as an example of when I find posts which challenge things in the nature of opinions or personal beliefs uncivil.

Had I been on the jury, I would have voted to hide it - and had it not been directed at me I might well have alerted on it for the same reasons you did. Even though it was not the worst of the worst, I'd like to set a tone leaning strongly toward civility at the outset.

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Response to Dusty Weatherwax (Reply #13)

Mon May 19, 2014, 04:44 PM

21. Yes, it was rude and uncalled for,

 

and for that, I apologize.

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Response to cowman_in_NV (Reply #21)

Mon May 19, 2014, 04:45 PM

22. No hard feelings - and thanks for the apology. n/t

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:16 AM

7. impugn anyone you want, just not anyone HERE.

 

Not saying I wouldnt slam your viewpoint against the poor etc, but unless you put it in personal terms, no worries.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:18 AM

8. Good post. Civility is something we can all work on.

If you find yourself at the point where you have contempt for another member, it's probably best to put that person on ignore. You won't have to worry about being offended by that person's posts anymore and you won't have to risk being uncivil to them in the future because you won't be responding to them. It's kept me out of trouble on DU for the last 5 years, and it will work just as well for anyone else at this site. Sometimes there are people who you'll never get along with and by whom you'll always be offended. That's just human nature.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:20 AM

10. Thank you -

And FWIW, I have both alerted on and been on juries where I've voted to hide rude posts directed at conservatives. I'm not always on the winning side - but I'm trying.

And - for good or bad - when I am on the losing side of an alert, the disparaging juror comments seem to come from both liberals and conservatives who want to preserve this place as a sandbox for monkeys flinging poo. Frankly, I hope they (both sides) take their poo to another sandbox so those of us who want to have civil conversations with each other. Hard, challenging questions do not have to include insults or other incivility. In fact, they are much better if we skewer the issues rather than each other.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:37 AM

14. Good post. And thanks for the apology.

A few of things for everyone to keep in mind.

1. This is an experiment. Admin. can pull the plug at any time if they don't like the direction this site is going in.

2. Some people post with the intent to disrupt, be rude, obnoxious, but just within the boundaries to beat an alert. If you don't reply to them, you have spoiled their fun. They don't want to be ignored, but it's the best thing for you. They will eventually give up and go away if we ignore them.

3. When alerting, your alert message is all the jury has to go on besides reading the post or thread in question. If you don't take the time to give a logical and cohesive reason to hide a post, you've wasted your alert.

4. These DU wars need to stop. It seems the intent in posting most of them is posters miss DU and have hurt feelings for getting banned; some DU members come here with just the intention to disrupt because they somehow feel this site takes away from DU; or CC/FR members trying to further divide liberals/democrats. One more reason I see is this board is a bit more free to post hot topics that divide and some feel they have been censored from doing that in the past at DU. Either way, for the health of THIS board, I think it needs to stop.

Just a few observations from someone that has lurked forever at all the sites mentioned, but chose this one to participate in. I'd really like to see it stay, grow, and become one of the most successful message boards on the web.


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Response to sadie (Reply #14)

Mon May 19, 2014, 05:00 PM

24. Very good post, thank you ...

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Response to sabrina (Reply #24)

Mon May 19, 2014, 06:02 PM

28. You are welcome, sabrina! n/t

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:47 AM

15. Appreciated.

Behind all the preconceived notions, we are all individuals with stories that don't always fit into the narratives that politicians have sold to gain power. I would encourage everyone to consider that when posting and to take in the feedback given. If someone tells you that there are folks whose experiences differ from a stereotype, I would expect that information be used to inform your worldview. I know that I try to understand someone else's experience of the world and learn from them too. Over the years, my views in several areas have changed based on feedback. I

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Response to skidmore01 (Reply #15)

Mon May 19, 2014, 09:30 PM

31. I feel the same. Well stated. n/t

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 11:48 AM

16. - Good for you, and hope this site is "easy"(to a point) on offenders.


I never got the opportunity on DU, and my hat is off to you for your openness.



The one single post on DU that was hidden and got shot to the admins and they ppr'd me so fast - I never even saw the complaints about my post until I was banned, nor did I get a chance to apologize for and/or explain my post.

I hope it works a bit different here.

Most (but not all) that are just given a "time-out" will rebehave methinks.

Permanent bans for just one or a few slips - seems excessive.

I'm glad our court system doesn't work like that up here.

I'd a been in for life before I hit 25!!

CC

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 12:00 PM

17. I certainly don't use those terms

Nut, humper whatever, those terms have no use in discussion of any kind. They are insults, period.

It is quite peculiar how there is a specific Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, but you are a crazy gun humper if you choose to observe that right. Gay marriage and abortion aren't in the Constitution anywhere I can see, yet I don't see anyone being disparaged as an abortion humper or a gay marriage nut.

If we ever get this straightened out, I'd like to see something done about the insistence that my car, motorcycle or gun are a surrogate for my penis and insinuations about the size of certain 2nd amendment supporters penii(?) silenced as well.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 01:52 PM

18. Not a lot of people would admit that.

Props to you, and thank you.

I am trying to put politics aside when presented with a jury situation and judging based on intent alone. I do think everything will shake out in the end.

Have a great day!

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 02:43 PM

19. without a link this post is useless.

We love to examine the wreckage.

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Response to Epicurus (Reply #19)

Mon May 19, 2014, 04:33 PM

20. If you don't mind, I will refrain

from a link to the hidden post. On the other site I had another post hidden merely for answering such a request and linking to the hidden post. The alerter and jury called it "doubling down" and the second hide got my account suspended for review for four days. I'd rather not go through that again.

I believe you could find the post using the search function.

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Response to Isidore (Reply #29)

Mon May 19, 2014, 08:53 PM

30. thanks.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 04:52 PM

23. You have become part of the solution.

I didn't see the hidden post, but this one made me smile.

Thank you, fools_gold. I look forward to seeing you around.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 05:21 PM

25. Thank you for your post

 

I too can be a bit passionate when I feel strongly about an issue, but I too want this board to remain civil and not turn into the cesspool that is the rest of the internet comment sections.

I know that we as Americans want to make our country better, and if we work together, instead of falling into their designed trap of divide and conquer, we have a very good chance to make positive change, TOGETHER.

peace

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 05:49 PM

26. Well it was not directed at me but thank you anyway

I like olive branches no matter who they are given to or who gives them.

But yes it is working out better than I expected...and I hope it continues...not perfect yet and probably never will be, but better for sure.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 05:54 PM

27. Very gracious of you, fools-gold.


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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Mon May 19, 2014, 10:58 PM

32. I saw the post and would never have alerted or hidden it...

I utterly reject the idea of alerting, a message board jury system, or taking part in stifling ones opinion or thoughts, unless it crosses the line into threats of criminality. I have never alerted on reported a post on dozens of comment venues in all the time I've been on the net. That would be the case under the most noblest of ideas and experimentation of such a system of moderation. As many here are probably aware, that is hardly the case, and some are here for the purpose of baiting and abusing the alert button and the jury system for whatever reason they deem fit. It is what it is and those are the conditions of posting here. I'll leave it at that. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the various motivations for such actions. For some, it's just a simple matter of a nanny like complex and inability to deal with anything that offends their delicate sensibilities or opinions. For others, it's a way to silence dissent or differing opinions on their views.

Incivility can take many forms - as it often does in many comment venues - from those screaming most about civility. Many have no problem with a barrage and constant stream of passive aggressive viciousness - wrapped up in the guise of decorum and civility - that can cut like a knife worse than anyone or any group being called a bunch of whining assholes or losers as you happened to do. Also, I would never apologize for making a post like that. You have said nothing that millions - who think as you do - don't say and think everyday in public conversations amongst themselves.

That being said, the ignorance and elitism in your post that got hidden is part of the problem - we face as a society - in my opinion. Complete lack of solidarity with anyone you imagine is beneath your social station and idea of "success". I don't agree with what you said at all. You said it, you own it. Why hide it or from it. You should defend it and not apologize for it if those are your true feelings. If they're not, and you felt like apologizing, then fine. Apologizing for the content was certainly not needed in my opinion. The alert was laughable. I want you to offend me. I welcome that kind of hatred, elitism, and ignorance for your imagined "lessers". I want to be able to tell you freely - just how much bullshit it is - in bad grammatical form from a blue-collar loser with minimal education

For a little more on your hidden post, the fact is this. Only about ten percent or less of the people in this country have job security, household income of around 70 grand or more, make house, car, and insurance payments, don't worry about food, and can "invest" money in the wall street scam. It is in the that world, that I assume you live, by the content of your post. Many - not all by any means - in that 10 percent bracket don't even know or care that the other 90 percent exist. That is the stark reality of capitalism at the present time.

Beyond that - politics and media in the US on all levels - including local - are dominated by people in the upper 1% income bracket and those who reside in the upper 10% I just mentioned. Rarely is much considered, spoken, or done but the same two party illusions and "prescriptions of change" that protect their own capitalist self interests and upscale reality first and foremost. If a few crumbs or trinkets happen to trickle down to their "lessers", that is quite enough for them to say they are working for the masses on either side. Without generalizing and demonizing that entire subset of the population, it's probably safe to say, that they're not part of the solution but rather part of the problem. There's very little solidarity to be found in that subset except to protect their status and self interests at the expense of the millions who suffer at the hands of their selective capitalist illusions and politics daily. Many from the upper scale Liberal-Progressive/Democrat side of the political spectrum will deny those facts. Many from the Conservative/Republican side revel in those facts. Nevertheless, those are the facts despite any protestations otherwise.

Now, of course there are people on both sides - who reside in those upper brackets economically - that genuinely care for other people regardless of status, income, or education. But more often than not, it all comes from the lens of capitalist economics and what can be done - from that perspective - within a horribly broken and stagnated two-party system. I don't agree with that political framework at all and I will never apologize for saying it or critiquing - in the strongest possible way - the ideas of the people or groups that preach that as the only way forward.

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Response to nopoliticalsaviors (Reply #32)

Sun May 25, 2014, 07:23 AM

34. Kudos to your eloquent post. I wholeheartedly agree.

There's too much alerting going on and, during the Meta days, I've seen the pettiness and mischief behind a lot of the alerting. I once posted this in the old forum in regard to the caliber of some alerts:



In regard to the OP's hidden post, I wouldn't have hidden it, either, but then you expressed better than I could have why the hidden OP failed. I, too, find today's value system -- both hedonistic and narcissistic -- of too many Americans very disappointing. The OP would have generated a good discussion if it had been allowed to stay open.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Sat May 24, 2014, 05:51 PM

33. thank you for this excellent post. I'm hoping this becomes a place where we can find common ground

on the critical issues we face. United we stand.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 07:38 AM

35. Nice; thanks for posting.

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Response to fools_gold (Original post)

Sun May 25, 2014, 07:58 AM

36. I've been starting to see a little more civility here

 

And finally a little more diversity among the members.

I've had one post hidden for calling someone a troll... which was uncalled for on my part. Although that person seems to have been banned already.
One thing I've found is that by posting on the less confrontational boards like fun and life where its easy to find common ground it becomes easier to be civil on the more volatile boards like politics and news due to the mutual respect nurtured through the neutral conversations on the other boards..... if that makes any sense

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Politics