Politicspolitics

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:16 PM

The NRA couldn't figure out how to stop the problem they created.

That's all. If they were going to insist on people being able to own firepower in excess of that which is covered by the Second Amendment, then they should have had an answer when horrific incidents started occurring. Instead, they just weaseled out of the blame over and over again.

The NRA is now just standing there with a dumb look on its face trying to pretend it is not to blame for the problems it has caused our country.

It's time to see the NRA for what it is and what it did to our country. If you are looking at the NRA, you are looking at a perp.

52 replies, 600 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply The NRA couldn't figure out how to stop the problem they created. (Original post)
swifty Feb 2018 OP
Nostrings Feb 2018 #1
Spitfire Feb 2018 #2
swifty Feb 2018 #3
Jake Feb 2018 #6
Steelydamned Feb 2018 #8
Jack Burton Feb 2018 #9
Pennsylvania Feb 2018 #11
oldenuff35 Feb 2018 #15
Dexter Morgan Mar 2018 #18
Arne Oker Mar 2018 #24
Carl Mar 2018 #25
Arne Oker Mar 2018 #31
Jake Mar 2018 #32
Arne Oker Mar 2018 #34
Jake Mar 2018 #36
Carl Mar 2018 #33
Arne Oker Mar 2018 #35
Carl Mar 2018 #38
GoldwatersSoul Mar 2018 #42
Arne Oker Mar 2018 #44
smoke check Mar 2018 #45
GoldwatersSoul Mar 2018 #47
GoldwatersSoul Mar 2018 #46
GoldwatersSoul Mar 2018 #39
Carl Mar 2018 #23
WhiskeyMakesMeHappy Mar 2018 #28
GoldwatersSoul Mar 2018 #37
Valishin Feb 2018 #4
GoldwatersSoul Mar 2018 #43
Valishin Mar 2018 #50
GoldwatersSoul Mar 2018 #51
Valishin Mar 2018 #52
Muddling Through Feb 2018 #5
kevlar Feb 2018 #7
MumblyPeg Feb 2018 #10
fszwfnj Feb 2018 #12
JaimeBondoJr Feb 2018 #13
docgeezer Mar 2018 #21
Shkreli Feb 2018 #14
Hey Mikey Mar 2018 #16
Mad Dog 20-20 Mar 2018 #17
Nostrings Mar 2018 #19
DP46 Mar 2018 #20
Banshee 3 Actual Mar 2018 #22
_eek Mar 2018 #26
FreeWheelBurning Mar 2018 #27
Jardinier Mar 2018 #29
Iron Condor Mar 2018 #30
oflguy Mar 2018 #40
swifty Mar 2018 #48
oflguy Mar 2018 #49
TexMexNext Mar 2018 #41

Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:23 PM

1. Semi-auto weapons ARE covered by the second amendment.

And the nra likely will grow by 1-3 million before this is over.

Pat yourself on the back, wont you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:24 PM

2. What are the limits that the Second Amendment allows??

None!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:26 PM

3. People who are true 2A supporters know it has limits.

Those who don't know it, are not 2A supporters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:30 PM

6. Just what do you think those limits are?

How did those limits compare to other limits on civil rights?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:51 PM

8. Aye...

...No true Scotsman, amirite? Wink wink, nudge nudge

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:54 PM

9. Please define the limits so we all know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:58 PM

11. As a heavily armed gun nut I have no problem

admitting I really pay no attention to the second amendment. I don’t care about your constitution or your laws

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 11:45 PM

15. So you and only you get to decide what the truth IS???

What a self centered self important arrogant ass ass you really are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:00 AM

18. Yes we know what the limits are nobody can own a weapon that looks scary.. Nobody buys the bullshit

anymore liberals want to ban guns..
Of course they don't say that they just say they want to ban scary guns.....Here in CA they are now going after ammo for any gun by raising the taxes some small gunstores went out business cause of the new regulations....

While the democrats say we still believe in the 2A..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dexter Morgan (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 08:44 AM

24. Why do liberals think certain guns are scary?

This article written by a doctor might provide a clue:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

As I opened the CT scan last week to read the next case, I was baffled. The history simply read “gunshot wound.” I have been a radiologist in one of the busiest trauma centers in the United States for 13 years, and have diagnosed thousands of handgun injuries to the brain, lung, liver, spleen, bowel, and other vital organs. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know about gunshot wounds, but the specific pattern of injury on my computer screen was one that I had seen only once before.
In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.
I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?
The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 09:46 AM

25. Good grief,you think getting hit with a .30-30 from a lever action rifle would not do that kind of

damage?

Learn ballistics rather then just believe hysterical,agenda driven tripe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Carl (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 12:59 PM

31. So the experience of a doctor who treated victims of the Parkland massacre

Is just hysterical, agenda driven tripe?

I'll grant there is a lot I don't know, but I think that I may be seeing some projection here with the accusation you are making.

Why do you say that this other rifle would do the same kind of damage? What capacity magazine does it use? Could it have gotten off a number of rounds in an amount of time comparable to what we have seen in these massacres where the shooters have used what have been called assault rifles?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:12 PM

32. Yes

Last edited Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:20 PM - Edit history (1)

And your bullshit is pushing it further.

What projection, he stated a fact every other rifle in the world would create a wound at least as bad. The reason the doctor so rarely sees rifle wounds is that they are used to kill less than a thousand people a year.

What does magazine capacity have to do with it? The doctor was describing a single wound channel.
Does magazine capacity really matter when the police refuse to go in?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jake (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:12 PM

34. Of course magazine capacity matters

It doesn't go to the seriousness of an individual gunshot wound, but it does go to how many rounds someone can get off in a certain amount of time.

I think you might want to rephrase the first sentence of your second paragraph, because I am not sure what your point is. The only rifle I saw him discussing was the AR15, but please show me if I am wrong.

Of course it's a big problem if the cops don't go in. But what is the solution to that? And doesn't that failure mean that we need to deal with these shootings in more than one way, so perhaps if one measure fails, something else could provide protection?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #34)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:33 PM

36. How does mag capacity matter?

"It doesn't go to the seriousness of an individual gunshot wound, but it does go to how many rounds someone can get off in a certain amount of time."
Certain amount of time, Where is this time limit coming from? Once again why are you try to ban something involved in so few deaths?


"I think you might want to rephrase the first sentence of your second paragraph, because I am not sure what your point is. The only rifle I saw him discussing was the AR15, but please show me if I am wrong."
Yep it should have been "projection". Who are you referring to? The doc or the guy you claim was projecting when he said a 30-3 would be as bad or worse.
I already explained why the doc has so little experience with rifle wounds ( they are damn rare).

"Of course it's a big problem if the cops don't go in. But what is the solution to that? And doesn't that failure mean that we need to deal with these shootings in more than one way, so perhaps if one measure fails, something else could provide protection?"
The solution to the police not doing their jobs, that is a tough one but one thing I know won't fix that problem is to place more restrictions on me. Why do we need more restrictions in the first place? Why were the teachers not given even the option to defend themselves?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:37 PM

33. Yes.

There is no magical killing power to a .223 round.
It would be marginal on a whitetail deer although it would kill one.

If all one had ever seen is a hand gun fired .22LR or less then it would do more damage but no where near as what other rifle rounds could do.
A .30-06 is probably the most popular medium to large game cartridge in the US and at one time was standard military issue,it would create a horrific wound on a person.

You are trying to move the goal posts with your last part.
Magazine capacity can vary but even a bolt action Remington Model 700 (available in .223 btw) with a 5 round magazine could be operated and reloaded fairly quickly with practice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Carl (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:21 PM

35. Well, we are either discussing this in the context of other important factors

Or we aren't.

Have you rebutted the claim that AR15s, and similar rifles, cause horrific wounds in comparison to handguns? No. That is what this doctor was claiming.

Guns with less magazine capacity could be reloaded within a short amount of time, but that extra time might be critical, allowing more people to escape, or a cop to take the shooter down. Or even allow an armed teacher to take them down, which a lot of people are advocating, and might be a good idea. (I am not sure about that one yet though.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:42 PM

38. You were wrong with that drivel of an article so now want to suddenly change the subject.

I am not well versed on various hand gun rounds but my knowledge of guns in general would tell me that a hand gun chambered for .357 will do a fair amount of damage.

Btw,are you familiar with the term "spray and pray" or worded the other way but same idea.
A person firing an non semi automatic rifle may very well take greater effort to actually aim rather then just pull the trigger.
It could easily lead to more deadly carnage if you think about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:01 PM

42. Doctor doesn't know guns...

Have you rebutted the claim that AR15s, and similar rifles, cause horrific wounds in comparison to handguns? No. That is what this doctor was claiming.

Depends on the handgun. Any Magnum round can deliver almost the same speed and energy as a rifle shell.

A .22 which is a pretty weak bullet can do MAJOR damage. Especially to organs.



Guns with less magazine capacity could be reloaded within a short amount of time, but that extra time might be critical, allowing more people to escape, or a cop to take the shooter down. Or even allow an armed teacher to take them down, which a lot of people are advocating, and might be a good idea. (I am not sure about that one yet though.)

Depends on the shooter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:24 PM

44. I'll grant that it depends on the handgun

The doctor was speaking about the AR15 vs the handgun wounds that he has seen.

As far as the shooter goes, I would have thought that their skill mattered. Still, even the most skillful shooter would take a little time to reload. Not that everyone doing this would be the most skillful shooter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #44)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:48 PM

45. 12 rounds, four seconds, a 6 round revolver.



It isn't the weapon. That is nothing more than a tool. It's the man that is dangerous. If he is truly dangerous, then he is dangerous so long as he is still conscious and can still move one hand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to smoke check (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 04:24 PM

47. Skill over weapon...Everytime.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #44)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 04:07 PM

46. Indeed..

My point is that getting shot with anything is a fairly bad wound. I am not sure the wounds could be compared with a lot of accuracy.

If a bullet goes through muscle for example the wound is different than when it hits organs. The liver the spleen, the kidneys thy all have the consistency of Jello. No kidding. They just disintegrate. My bet is the good doctor has seen more .22 wounds than anything, It is by far the most common gun out there. Sometimes, close shots with a .22 can enter without a lot of expansion or distortion by the bullet. Makes the wound a lot cleaner than one that has had time to tumble and distort.

Guns aren't all that hard to master when you are within about 50 feet of someone. When you add a scope and some distance is when the gun gets more complex. Otherwise you point at roughly what you are aiming at and fire. That is why people have to LEARN to hunt. By just picking up a rifle and going out and shooting a deer without learning where you should shoot the deer is an exercise in stupidity and cruelty.

If you shoot the deer in the belly, you probably destroy the organs. He wont die immediately and will bleed out. The meat, more often than not is ruined.

You shoot it in the shoulder and into the heart. Animal is dead immediately and the meat is not fouled. If you look at the heart after you do this. It is damaged...not destroyed.

It is the density and manner of the tissue you are shooting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arne Oker (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:43 PM

39. A hunting rifle....

Like a .30 06. Is a far more dangerous weapon. The AR-15 round is not much bigger than a .22 round, albeit with a larger cartridge.

It is hard to say exactly. If the bullet ricochet off a rib or other bone it can go through the liver twice.

Doctors also tend to be a touch dramatic when they talk about such things.

Vital organ tend to be fragile. That is why as a hunter you only really want to hit the heart. Shooting through organs can foul your kill.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 06:23 AM

23. Why did you run away?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 11:40 AM

28. Why don't you answer the fucking question?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:36 PM

37. If those limits...

are substantially below that of the government on a consistent basis, then the 2nd Amendment has no value. Why would the founders allow the people to have Pellet guns and the government to have weapons that are far more powerful?

Your thesis makes no sense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:27 PM

4. At what point

did the NRA push to allow ownership of ordinance? That is the criteria for firepower that exceeds what the second amendment covers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Valishin (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 03:05 PM

43. What firepower does the 2nd amendment cover??

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 11:43 PM

50. arms

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Valishin (Reply #50)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 09:40 AM

51. Indeed...

do you see a limitation? My reading of what you wrote is that you consider the 2nd a limiting order as well as one that grants freedom. I sought clarification.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #51)

Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:39 AM

52. It is limiting

on what government can do. In this case they can control ordnance but not arms.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:29 PM

5. Type that missive on an 18th Century Letterpress, did you?

Why are you using a communications technology in excess of that which is covered by the First Amendment?

Thanks for the chips.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:51 PM

7. Sorry,

that bullshit just doesn't cut it.

The NRA is a civil rights organization with citizens as members.

You clearly have no idea what is, or is not, covered by the second amendment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 10:56 PM

10. ain't too bright, areya boy?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 11:01 PM

12. Trying your hand at satire for a change?

You're really not good at it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 11:05 PM

13. Just what HAS the NRA done to our country?

Perps are called perps because it's short for PERPETRATOR. What crime did the NRA commit?

I'll wait.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JaimeBondoJr (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:11 AM

21. They are committing the crime of advocating in favor of individual rights. The collectivist left

considers this to be a serious crime.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Wed Feb 28, 2018, 11:22 PM

14. "If they were going to insist on people being able to own firepower in excess "

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 12:36 AM

16. Lefty needed a boogieman

The NRA is it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 12:45 AM

17. The NRA has lost it's way.

Start looking at where the money it runs on comes from, and where it goes, and them look at it's original charter to see if it really doing what it set out to do. (Hint- Old motto was "“Firearms Safety Education, Marksmanship Training, Shooting for Recreation.” )

Is CEO Wayne LaPierre worth all that money?
http://time.com/money/5178193/wayne-lapierre-net-worth-nra-money-salary/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mad Dog 20-20 (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:14 AM

19. Nonsense. They stand squarely in opposition to bans on semi-automatics.

Right where their members want them to stand.

The gun banning dems who will endanger their own citizens to keep illegal aliens safe, they are the ones who have lost their way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mad Dog 20-20 (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 01:48 AM

20. Fudd meeting is down the hall, to the far, far left

Have a good time arguing about lead versus steel versus bismuth shot with the cranky old guys.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:18 AM

22. Your tolling is total shit value now

If the 2nd amendment never meant Semi Auto, than the 1st never meant your tolling ops on the internet

A Black gangbanger in Baltimore shooting a black child is not the NRA's fault but the shooters fault

This is why you lot had your asses beaten in Nov 16 this fucking stupid blame everyone but the criminals attitude

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 10:04 AM

26. I was going to answer your lie as put forth.

Well multiple lies actually, but considering you just pulled the pin and scuttered back to the shadows..
I will just go ahead and stick with the comments I just typed.

Time to see liberal liars for what they are and what they are still doing to our country.
Ain't that right...perp?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 10:15 AM

27. The only people with a dumb look on their face are thost that think the NRA is the problem

Of course they are oblivious to how ignorant they sound.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 11:54 AM

29. Over the weekend I decided to

“see the NRA for what it is” and I went to their web site and became a member. lol.

I used to be an anti-gun lefty. One day Swifty, I hope you will see the light as well. Being a Righty is so much more logical and easier. It just makes sense. Being a Righty means you won’t have to argue why grown men should be allowed to shower with little girls and other stuff like that.

< for lefty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 11:58 AM

30. "Firepower in excess" ??
















Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:45 PM

40. I don't believe you ever answered this question

What law would have prevented the shooting in Florida?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oflguy (Reply #40)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:30 PM

48. One would be "no sales to buyers under 21"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 09:08 PM

49. Fail

He could have gotten a gun almost anyplace. Most gun crimes are committed with guns acquired illegally.

Wanna try again?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to swifty (Original post)

Thu Mar 1, 2018, 02:46 PM

41. High velocity rifle ammunition is more potent than low velocity handgun ammunition

That's no revelation to anyone with hunting experience. So this doc is finally getting up to speed? A mere 13 years into his practice. Many deer I take have little to no heart discernible when field dressed. That's nothing new since the late 1890's spitzer bullets.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Politicspolitics