Tue Jun 12, 2018, 10:33 PM

Democrats, liberals, primitives now bashing Dustin Trudeau

You know, I wish these people would make up their minds how they feel about politicians, and stick with it for at least five minutes; they're always going back-and-forth, up-and-down, hither-and-yon, from hero to villain to hero to villain.


Say hello to Justin Trudeau, the world's newest oil executive

The Canadian prime minister presents himself as a climate hero. By promising to nationalise the Kinder Morgan pipeline, he reveals his true self

In case anyone wondered, this is how the world ends: with the cutest, progressivest, boybandiest leader in the world going fully in the tank for the oil industry......more at the link.

- - - - - - - - - - -

You know, when Democrats, liberals, and primitives talk about "nationalizing" a company or an entire industry, usually they suppose it's some sort of punitive measure, meant to inflict punishment on someone or something.

I suspect they have no idea what really goes on.

Dustin Trudeau wants to nationalize this particular pipeline.....which is considerably outdated, subject to considerable breakdowns, and inefficient.

The private owners of it made some big bucks off it, let it go to pot, and now are willing to sell it to the government for far more than what it's really worth.....further enriching the private owners.

The same thing happened with British Steel back in 1948, when the Labour government purchased for an inflated price various steel-processing businesses whose owners had run them into the ground.

One's not especially impressed by the morals and business policies of the private owners, but on the other hand, one's not especially impressed by any ostensible cerebral prowess of Democrats, liberals, and primitives who think "nationalizing" is a cool idea.

Bah, humbug.

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 11:55 PM

1. But liberals mean well and do such things with good intentions

That's all that really matters.

(to them)

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Response to foia (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 01:58 PM

6. With all due respect, foia, see Post #4. Sometimes things get done. Just done. No matter what.


Done. Period. No matter what.

And some will never believe Liberals are not jack-asses. And nothing, but from nothing, no matter what, done. Period. No matter what, will Ever. Change. That. Mind.

But anyhow, please see what fault or wrong you can find with Post #4. Thanks. -- Wm*

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 02:43 AM

2. Some reading was necessary for me to sort out fact/fiction/theories . . . .

Apparently, SOME method was needed to move oil to the coast, road and rail not being the most desirable/safe/economical. Kinder-Morgan had decided to halt it's upgrade which includes constructing a second pipeline in the same path/bed as the present one which may cost over 7 Billion (after the purchase price).

To ensure the Provinces needs, Trudeau pushed to buy the pipeline to guarantee the construction/upgrade while seeking new owners to run/maintain it - It is not intended to be a "forever" thing.

Also. the deal is not finalized yet - just the offer which Kinder-Morgan (based in Houston)- closing date on the offer is in August - a while away . . . construction completion expected 2021 - so could well be out of the taxpayers hands by then (remember - he deal is not done yet - not until August)

There are many safeguards/checks in place for the local governments, provincial, municipal and territorial to have their say, and monitor acceptable construction methods/quality.

OK - don't just take my word on all the above, what I have compiled can be verified (and expanded upon if one takes the interest) at the following links.




OH - and our Canuck Liberals are more Centrist than Left - NDP are our Left - Conservatives our Right


ps: What is with the reference to Justin as "Dustin"? - Did I miss something ?

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Response to akaConcernedCanuk (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 03:51 AM

3. ".....What is with the reference to Justin as 'Dustin'? - Did I miss something?"

Sorry, sir. Typographical error.

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 01:34 PM

4. Hi, imwithfred. Several power plays going on here. Let me sort it out:



By the numbers:

1) There has been only one way to sell liquified bitumen (heavy oil derived from oil shale, which both Canada and Argentina have in great abundance), from the Alberta Oil Sands...

2)...(which opponents of fossil fuel re-name "The Tar Sands", because it sounds more dangerous -- Ed.)...

3)...to the specialized refineries equipped for cracking (fractionally distilling) liquified bitumen from the massive oil shale deposits...

4)...the Province of Alberta, which produces the liquified bitumen, calls The Oil Sands (and opponents re-name "The Tar Sands)...

5)...and this is to add a solvent to the bitumen to enable it to be transported through a pipeline to the same refineries on the Gulf of Mexico which refine the bitumen (which fossil fuel supporters call "heavy oil"), and fossil fuel opponents...

6)...(environmental activists, including the small single-issue Green Party, and the larger, socialist New Democratic Party, or "NDP"), somewhat misleadingly call "tar")...

7)...and as there is only one way to sell it, to the only one customer who can use and refine it, means the Gulf Coast refinery gets to tell the Alberta producers whatever price the Gulf Coast feels like paying for it, and the Alberta oil producers are forced to accept whatever price they are offered.

8) Because it's never good to have only one customer for anything, because that customer can (and always does) (and always will) take advantage of you...

9)...there has long been talk of building a pipeline from Alberta to Canada's West Coast, to load the liquified bitumen (which supporters call "heavy oil") (and opponents call "tar")...

10)...onto transport (which supporters call "oil tankers) (and opponents call "time bombs")...

11)...so the Alberta oil producers will have a potential second customer (Japan, China, Korea, Pacific Rim)...

12)...so even if no oil were sold or transported through this Alberta-West Coast pipeline, the price the Gulf Coast refineries were willing to pay Alberta producers would rise (hey, presto! by magic) the very day that pipeline to a "second customer" (real or hypothetical) was completed.

13) The pipeline would pay for itself just by sitting empty. Of course there's no way to explain this to the socialist NDP, which opposes oil pipelines...

14)...and especially no way anything whatsoever having to do with hydrocarbons will ever be tolerated by the small and ultra-environmentalist Green Party, which opposes all production, use, or consumption of fossil fuels of any kind at all, for any purpose whatsoever. Period. Full stop.

15) Two years ago, the Province of Alberta elected an NDP Government. Premier: Rachel Notley.

16) One year ago, the Province of British Columbia (through which any pipeline must pass) elected an NDP Government. Premier: John Horgan. An NDP *Minority* repeat **Minority!** Government, supported by the.... .....wait for it.... ....Green Party.

17) The Federal NDP (Ottawa) elected a new Federal NDP Leader: Jagmeet Singh.

18) The Federal NDP opposes pipelines on environmental grounds.

19) The Alberta NDP supports Alberta's major employer: Oil. Meaning the Alberta NDP supports this pipeline.

20) The British Columbia NDP must oppose the pipeline or the Green Party withdraws support, and Premier John Horgan will fall.

21) Premier Rachel Notley in Alberta gives go-ahead for Kinder-Morgan to build pipeline.

22) Prime Minister J.P. Trudeau gives go-ahead for pipeline.

23) Premier John Horgan of British Columbia refuses to sign the papers, because the day he signs the papers, his (*minority*) Government will fall.

24) Premier Notley of Alberta takes Premier Horgan of British Columbia to court, to force Horgan to sign the papers.

25) Horgan vows to refuse to sign the papers for years, and to make so much red tape the pipline will be ready never.

26) Premier Notley of Alberta passed an Anti-Horgan Law empowering Alberta to cut off all oil shipments to British Columbia until Horgan signs the papers.

27) Premier Horgan vows B.C. will freeze in the dark before John Horgan will ever sign those papers.

28) Pipeline-owner Kinder-Morgan says, "F&ck THIS s#it!! We're outta here!!" Horgan wins.

29) Prime Minister Trudeau says, "Not so fast. We'll offer loan guarantees to Kinder-Morgan until Horgan can be stopped".

30) Kinder-Morgan replies, "Not good enough. Horgan, the B.C. NDP and the Greens will still tie us up for years with "hearings", "consultations", "environmental assessmnts", and "more consultations", so f&ck this s#it, we're outta here."

31) So Prime Minister Trudeau pays $4.6 Billion, nationalizes the pipeline, and simply picks Horgan up by his beefy elbows, sits Horgan at the table, and orders Horgan to sign the papers.

32) Because Horgan is acting under duress, the Green Party can't bring down the Horgan Government for signing the papers.

33) Horgan signs the papers.

34) Horgan keeps his job.

35) Everybody wins but the Green Party, etc.

36) And that, is how Canada came to own a pipeline.

-- Will Morningstar, DI Toronto

-- 30 --

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 01:41 PM

5. If you support trump, you have no right to call anybody else a "primitive."

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Response to saspamco (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 02:16 PM

7. My first day on this site, when the sharks were circling...


...and red-faced with outrage that Will Morningstar* should DARE to join THEIR Discussionist...

...(now here the sharks will SCREAM "He's talking about himSELF!! Meeeeee! Meeeeee! Meeeeee!", because that's all the dirt and filth they have to smear me with)...

...imwithfred said, "Now, wait a minute, this one's not so primitive at all. We should keep him. He's better than any writer on DU. Nobody on DU can even touch him. The best they've got is Omaha Steve".

So imwithfred convinced the DI Death Squad to let me live, because DI would have a star player, and bragging rights over DU.

Whatever, all I know is I'm still alive, and I have imwithfred to thank for that.

Then Fred Sanford made me the first (and ever!) "Token Liberal" TierOne, so Qukid's liberal-hating friends couldn't kill me either.

Thanks, The Freds!

-- Morningstar*

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #7)