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Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:11 PM

All we want is common sense Abortion control

What are lefties against that? Or do they only want regulations concerning firearms?

48 replies, 413 views

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Arrow 48 replies Author Time Post
Reply All we want is common sense Abortion control (Original post)
Solesurvivor Jul 11 OP
Independent.mind Jul 11 #1
Scary Red Jul 11 #3
Solesurvivor Jul 11 #6
Scary Red Jul 11 #7
Solesurvivor Jul 11 #8
Ruby Jul 11 #11
Solesurvivor Jul 12 #28
Ruby Jul 12 #33
wonderwarthog Jul 11 #13
Scary Red Jul 11 #18
TM999 Jul 12 #26
Scary Red Jul 12 #30
TM999 Jul 12 #31
Liberty Jul 12 #37
Cold Warrior Jul 13 #47
Carl Jul 11 #15
Scary Red Jul 11 #19
Carl Jul 11 #20
Scary Red Jul 11 #21
Carl Jul 11 #22
Scary Red Jul 11 #23
Carl Jul 12 #32
Iron Condor Jul 12 #44
Solesurvivor Jul 11 #5
Summer Jul 11 #17
357blackhawk Jul 11 #9
WhiskeyMakesMeHappy Jul 11 #10
Daves Not Here Man Jul 11 #2
Mouth of Chaos Jul 11 #4
Horsefeathers Jul 11 #12
liberalguy Jul 11 #14
SickOfThisMess Jul 11 #16
TendiesForBreakfast Jul 11 #24
TendiesForBreakfast Jul 11 #25
TM999 Jul 12 #27
liberalguy Jul 12 #34
TM999 Jul 12 #35
liberalguy Jul 12 #36
TM999 Jul 13 #46
Solesurvivor Jul 12 #29
DP46 Jul 12 #39
liberalguy Jul 12 #40
DP46 Jul 12 #41
liberalguy Jul 12 #42
DP46 Jul 12 #43
Liberty Jul 12 #38
Jardinier Jul 12 #45
jh4freedom Jul 13 #48

Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:15 PM

1. Such as?

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:21 PM

3. Calling it "abortion control" gives you a really big hint.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:55 PM

6. so i guess you only like to use that word for things YOU personally like to control?

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:59 PM

7. Here's a hint-- control things that must be controlled for the common good...

like

steering wheels

the money supply

pure food and drug laws

etc.

Do not control things that you simply personally disagree with.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:01 PM

8. I don't simply disagree with abortion, i think its the killing of a human being

Don't know about you but i think that should be controlled

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:35 PM

11. Men hold the power.

Wear a condom. Problem solved.

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Response to Ruby (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 03:56 AM

28. Better yet dont have sex with someone unless

You can accept the consequences

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 09:31 AM

33. That goes for both parties involved.

But right now, a woman has the option of getting an abortion as a way to “accept the consequences”. If the man involved doesn’t want the woman to use that option he can wear a condom. He has the power.

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #8)


Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:07 PM

18. This is an ancient question-- the defining of just when does life begin...

and the various religions don't really help at all.

I don't buy the Catholic idea of inception is the beginning of a life with a soul, so it should be saved. I don't see proof of a soul to begin with, anyway.

More to the point would be arguments over whether or not the fetus can exist, and present rules consider an undeveloped fetus that cannot exist outside the womb is not a person and can be destroyed. I do understand that neither side of this argument can be proven since they are both starting from different premises, but hopefully we can come up with some middle ground to agree to. Not much of a chance so far, but it is really our only hope.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 03:08 AM

26. No culture or country in history made abortion legal

until Roe.

Why? Because we know exactly when life begins. When a human egg is fertilized by a human sperm, the 'clump of cells' becomes an independent human person. That zygote can become nothing but a person. It will never be a frog. It will never be a tree.

Catholicism doesn't need the hylomorphic concept of the soul to recognize nature as it is. The substance of the human person is there from conception. Only the accidentals change. The magical birth canal is the supernatural response the liberals give for the justification of taking the life of that human person while still in the womb. Once it is 'viable' outside, then, and only then, they say, we have a human person with rights.

Yet, you seem to want to play the common good card, so let's do so. The common good acknowledges that the most vulnerable human persons have the highest priority need for protection. A disabled human person, an elderly & infirmed human person, and an unborn human person are all the most vulnerable. Therefore in its in the common good to protect these persons and honor the dignity of human life.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 04:13 AM

30. That is not true. Through most of history it was ignored by the law...

and both Aristotle and St. Augustine approved of abortion if the fetus was not yet viable. Asians didn't have much of a problem with it, either.

Greek, Roman, and even Egyptian texts spoke of it as generally acceptable, and when it was disapproved of, it was usually because of low population fears. Stalin was a big abortion foe because of falling population pressure.

Curiously, as abortion became safer, the battles against it became more severe, and there was a lot of legislation in the 19th Century.

As to the zygote becoming nothing other than a person, that is true but entirely irrelevant. It is very simply not a person yet.

The same goes for your common good argument.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 04:42 AM

31. Wow, the lies in this post.

Augustine called all uses made to avoid the birth of a child as 'evil works'.

Aristotle and the Greeks recognized that physicians were to be held to the Hippocratic oath and therefore should not assist a mother in aborting her child.

Soviet Russia on the whole from 1920 to 1936 and then again from 1955 through the 1990's supported abortion.

And yes, the zygote is very much a human person. Every attempt to state it occurs magically at another time is both metaphysics and arbitrary.

My common good argument is sound.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 10:30 AM

37. "It is very simply not a person yet. "

At what point does it become a "person"?

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Response to TM999 (Reply #26)

Fri Jul 13, 2018, 04:12 AM

47. Sigh. Great Britain legalised abortion in 1967

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:55 PM

15. Why the fuck should I listen to a leftist for what is the common good?

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Response to Carl (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:09 PM

19. You don't have to, but if you insist on talking about it you have to explain your point.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:12 PM

20. You brought it up.

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Response to Carl (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:14 PM

21. So? If you insist on disagreeing, you should say why. Otherwise, why bother...

joining the conversation?

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:24 PM

22. I did,I asked why the fuck I should care what you somehow think is the common good.

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Response to Carl (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:51 PM

23. You don't have to, but it would be nice to know what you think...

it is lazy to just say "You're wrong". Probably ignorant, too.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 05:45 AM

32. First off I am not so damned arrogant as most leftists that think they alone define what is the

"common good" or someone elses best interest as they so love to say.

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Response to Scary Red (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 12:23 PM

44. Common sense abortion control

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:54 PM

5. no abortions after the 1st trimester

and before you say "unless the mothers life is in danger" is kind of fishy because any abortion doctor can justify this exception when the mother is even a little distressed

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:07 PM

17. the "health of the mother"

Yeah the " health of mother" indicates a child is involved...hmmmmmm. And health can be mental issues, if dr. approves? Terminating a pregnancy has always been legal if mom (and baby) could die. It is done in a hospital, not at planned parenthood. It saves moms life. An ectopic pregnancy is always removed. Not at an abortion clinic. Moms life is saved.

Even European countries that are so revered by many on the left don't have the insane rights to abortion that we have.



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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:07 PM

9. Like much of Western Europe

And UK.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:13 PM

10. The "Common Sense" kind. Why are you apposed to that?!

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Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:18 PM

2. so original!

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Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:27 PM

4. LOL!

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Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:38 PM

12. I actually support aborting future liberals

I just don't like paying for it.

That part needs to change.
🐎

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Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:55 PM

14. Abortion is about half as common as it was in 1980

 

Common sense dictates that we continue doing what we are doing.

The analogy you are trying to draw with guns?



...maybe shouldn't go there.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:06 PM

16. A legitimate link to your phoney graph?

With specifics? Like breaking this down into official causes? Homicide.... suicide.... accidental....

You know the drill.

Then, we'll tackle the locale of the homicidal firearm deaths. Chicago? Baltimore? Los Angeles? New York City? San Francisco? Boston?

We'll then watch lefty spit and sputter excuses as to why the Democrats are a failure!

LOL@Lefty!

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #14)


Response to liberalguy (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 10:11 PM

25. Follows a general violent crime trend during the same years

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/09/26/violent-crime-and-murders-both-went-up-in-2015-fbi-says/?utm_term=.b3430c95513e

Chicago, Baltimore, and Washington accounted for a significant share in the increased homicides, and violent crime and gun deaths are still astronomically lower than they were in 1995, with a much smaller population.

Assault weapons ban went into effect in 1994, and those three cities have some of the most restrictive gun control laws on the books.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 03:10 AM

27. Actually you are yet again quite wrong.

Abortions have not been cut in half over the last 20 years. The amount reported has lessened because California and several other hyper-partisan blue states refuse to give stats to the CDC.

So when you look at the CDC numbers this must be taken into account.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 09:52 AM

34. Reputable link please.

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/data-mine/articles/2018-03-21/abortion-rates-where-and-why-theyre-falling

The data show that, while stricter abortion laws do not lead to fewer abortions, preventing unwanted pregnancies has a significant effect on reducing the number of terminations.

In countries where laws permit abortion only to save the life of the mother, the abortion rate is higher at 37 per 1,000 women than the rate of 34 abortions per 1,000 in countries without such restrictions

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #34)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 09:55 AM

35. Go to the CDC and

search for Abortion Surveillance.

It details which states reports, which do not, and therefore the number they provide are estimates based off of self-reporting states.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 10:08 AM

36. "California, Louisiana, Maryland, and New Hampshire"

 

Is there some legitimate reason to believe that extrapolating nationwide rates onto those populations yields a grossly inaccurate estimate?
It's clear that wealthier states have a lower rate - if anything excluding them when calculating a rate should yield an erroneously high estimate.
(Surely you're not suggesting that the CDC assumes that zero abortions occur in Louisiana)

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #36)

Fri Jul 13, 2018, 12:54 AM

46. California alone has had the greatest number of abortions per year

than any other state for decades.

Look at the stats per year from the beginning and then notice the drop when these four states stopped reporting, CA in particular. Then just do some bloody simple math.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 03:59 AM

29. Well one is a right defined in the BOR the other

Appears no where in the BOR,constitution or Declaration of Independence etc.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 11:00 AM

39. Cute piece of fiction, your kid draw that for you?

Or did you just cut and paste the trend in Democrat funded minority abortions by mistake?

Here's a thought, try reality instead of propaganda.

The FBI publishes a report every year on violent crime, including crime with firearms.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/ucr

It's at the lowest point in over 35 years now ... and falling.

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Response to DP46 (Reply #39)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 11:03 AM

40. Firearm death rate

 

In 2016, the overall rate of death by firearms in the United States was 11.8 per 100,000 people — the same as for death by motor vehicles

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #40)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 11:07 AM

41. Unresponsive and unsourced therefore ... irrelevant

See, when you try and claims something, without citing the source or putting it in perspective, you looks stupid and childish.

The FBI says it's lower than it has been in 35 years, so ... I'm going to believe them instead of your kids poor science fair project.

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Response to DP46 (Reply #41)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 11:36 AM

42. Then you tell me what the FIREARM DEATH RATE is

 

Hint: the CDC publishes this.

As of 2016 it was 11.8

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #42)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 12:20 PM

43. Silly goose! Everyone knows the CDC can't do any firearms research, gun grabbers told us so.

Now you just look silly. The Evil NRA stopped CDC Gun related research years ago, just ask your beloved, hypocrite gun grabber Bloomberg.

Now, pay attention, the question was ... is the rate going down?

The FBI UCR says it has been going down for over two decades.

(Here's another hint to solving the violence problem, if you take out the top 6 Democrat run cities ... our national rate is in the bottom 10 of all countries. But the violent Dems that live and run those cities cant do anything but apologize and make excuses for the violence.)

Chicago, run by Democrats for over 60 years:
Year to Date, 7-12-2018
Shot & Killed: 236
Shot & Wounded: 1249
Total Shot: 1485
Total Homicides: 288

Horrendous, sure ... but actually down from the 2 prior years, that had even higher murder rates.

If only you guys could get your ultra violent urban areas under control, we wouldn't look nearly as bad as we look now.

Now, tell us more about how you're taking out the evil NRA ...

.... with the help of fellow lefty Harvey Weinstein?

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Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 10:49 AM

38. Lefties are against it because it takes away an issue they use for election purposes.

I believe most Americans would have no problem making late term abortion illegal unless the life of the mother is at risk. It truly is sick that they use it only as a means to get elected. Who in their right mind would think late term abortion is okay? They cry about the government ripping children from the arms of their parents, and at the same time advocate for ripping children from the womb.

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Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 12:39 PM

45. Back when Roe V Wade became law things were much different - medically.

There were no ultra-sound scans, no home pregnancy test, no morning after pill and birth control wasn’t as advanced.

(Think muskets).

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Response to Solesurvivor (Original post)

Fri Jul 13, 2018, 04:31 AM

48. There are only 4 states

That don't "control" abortion through restrictive legislation: Oregon, California, Vermont and Maryland. The other 46 states have kaws that limit access to abortion.

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