Politicspoliticstrumpruinscanada

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:08 AM

 

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Will Morningstar) on Tue Oct 2, 2018, 07:27 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:10 AM

1. Fair trade is fair trade

 

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Response to Tolk (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:13 AM

2. Bullies are bullies. Illegal acts are illegal acts. Empty threats are empty threats.

 

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:54 AM

8. For almost two years

 

President Trump has been saying let's make a deal.
Your guy blew it off, oh well.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:16 AM

15. Nope. Since August 2017 Trump's instructions to U.S. Trade Rep. Bob Lighthizer

 

were NOT to "DEAL" with Canada AT ALL.

Now slow down. Take a breath. Take another one. Just think about that for a minute.

Think about that. That's not made up. That's 100% Certified True Gold-Plated Blue-Chip absolutely completely positively definitely incontrovertibly true fact.

Innocent question: just how exactly would you, Tolk, yes, you, go about making a "deal" eith a man whose boss ordered him to make "no" deal "at all" with you? Just hand you a list of non-negotiable demands.

In August 2017 U.S. Trade Representative Robt. Lighthizer handed Canada Donald Trump's "final offer".

That's what's REALLY been going on. Ever since.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:02 AM

11. "Illegal acts" LOL

?w=800&h=427

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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #11)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:18 AM

16. MEME-MAW. "A meme in the maw is worth two in the tush." -- Anon.

 

Nothing to reply to here. Just a meme-maw.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:39 AM

19. Empty threats scare you?

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Response to bfox74 (Reply #19)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:55 AM

21. It's not my file. It's Chrystia's file. I'm just the Past Director of her riding association.

 

The question is: Do empty threats scare Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland?

Ever seen her in a red dress?

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #21)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 04:14 AM

22. Where did you reference Chrystia, and where is this alleged file to which you refer?

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Response to bfox74 (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 04:42 AM

24. The Honourable Chrystia Freeland, Member of Parliament, Toronto Centre-Rosedale

 

is The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, Government of Canada.

Prime Minister Justin P. Trudeau, M.P., has given Minister Freeland full responsibility for the current round of "talks" (demands) "requested" (ordered) by U.S. President Donald J. Trump. Here in Canada, we call this, "the trade file", or "the file".

(Chrystia has two "jobs" Job one: Minister of Foreign Affairs, and Job two: Minister of International Trade. A Minister's Ministries are called "portfolios". Chrystia has two "portfolios", each of whch contain a number of "files".)

(sd) Will J. Morningstar*
Past Director, Toronto Centre-Rosedale Liberal Association

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #24)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 05:02 AM

25. So is the "empty threats" comment from Chrystia?

You still haven't clarified.

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Response to bfox74 (Reply #25)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:17 AM

31. Mine. I offered it in response to the belligerent cheerleaders DJT rah rah rah!

 

I must thank you all today in fairness for the complete lack of "f&ck Canada", "no-good Canada", "effeminate soy-boy faggit Canada", "don' need no maple syrup", and the almost complete absence of ignorant memes (and even the obligatory Donald as manly chestbeating he-man meme-mouthing some invented insult, spoke more to the Meme-Maw than your good President -- Ed.). In all previous tries, our rotten apples have spoiled the barrel on this topic (or perhaps they spend their Friday nights away from their computers).

(It's not Donald's fault he's unfairly made to look the fool in photoshops with memes in his maw of the "swingin' dick yankee" variety. -- Ed.)

To be more specific, I called a spade a spade for you here in complete and total candor. Not being partisan. These aren't talking points. So anyone who digs in with Donald's Unchanged August 2017 Talking Points, I have no defence.

Because I've just given away the store. Any troll who shows up and spits in my eye now, shall be beneath contempt.

Hey, we're your friends. We wanna get along. But some johnny-come-lately is not talking to us that way, punking us, and not making us his little old b!tch in front of the whole world. Better he should go invade Grenada or something. We're just not having any.

Doesn't he realize he's called out his closest ally in front of the whole world? ON EDIT: Who. Does. He. Think. He. Is... ...A. Russian. Agent?? A. Russian. Agent?? Sure acting like one. This is bizarre. END EDIT.

If we give in, we can't show our faces at the United Nations ever again. Donald has made this more than dollars and cents. He can't humiliate us internationally to throw red meat to his maggahats. Like I said. Go beat up on somebody who doesn't matter.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #31)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 12:39 PM

39. So, back to square one. Empty threats scare you?

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Response to bfox74 (Reply #39)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 04:31 PM

40. Hopefully not "back to square one", and "round and round we go...", like standard DI fare.

 

Here's the difference: I've just dropped the "talking points", and put all Canada's cards on the table. I know the file as well as anyone, but I *don't* work for Minister Freeland's predecessor anymore (Minister of Foreign Affairs; Minister of National Defence The Honourable William Carvel Graham Q.C., P.C., LL.D -- Ed.), so there's nothing stopping me from telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, here on this fine little website where a few "old hands" might take notice. Consider this a "back-channel"; a sincere overture from one longtime true friend of America, who just wants a fine bunch of folks he's come to love and respect, to know what's going on.

My motives: I don't want anything to hurt the good relationship U.S.-CAN. deserve to have. We've stood together, fought together, bled together, and we'll get through this too, if we forget the slogans and know the truth. Because the truth will set us free.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:20 AM

27. If they're empty threats how will your country be ruined?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 08:08 AM

33. By the world watching us give in to a bully, and losing respect for us forever.

 

Even Albania would bully us then.

Notice I have no talking points here, CharlieMike. Every word I've said here is the whole truth I swear to God, and I'm right about everything. And any honest person knows it.

Forget about the red herrings. There's only ONE issue. Donald wants to sit in judgement and "decide" all trade disputes. He wants to run North American business as the Supreme Business Czar. 99.9 % of "trade disputes" are a certain type of U.S. firm (not because U.S. firms are shady, just because there's more of them -- Ed.), "working the rules", and Canada wins in arbitration 99.9% of the time. Donald wants to be The Judge. So the American firms, right or wrong, will win 100% of the time.

If that's "a deal", then rapists are simply proposing marriage.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 08:11 AM

34. Well, we're not going to endure unfair trade practices, nor let that limp wristed cretin Trudeau

push us around.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #34)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:56 PM

51. Right you are, Chas. And neither are we. Oh, neither are we.

 

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #51)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:57 PM

52. Then sit back and watch what happens.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #52)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:18 PM

55. Looking forward to it. Always at my best in a crisis. That's when they let me loose.

 

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #55)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:20 PM

57. You are the John Wick of inane verbosity.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #57)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:41 PM

59. What's become of young John Slickwick? Which of his 27+ avatars is he under lately?

 

First met him on aerows' O.P., "Conspiracy Theories: Let's Discuss Them. I believe he was Clarity of Signal at the time. Or do I have him mixed up with old Machine Head. Is that you?

And back to the O.P.: Do you believe U.S. should trade with Canada?

Or would you rather simply invade and take what you want. Come get us. We are weak, and defenceless.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:18 AM

3. You guys wanted

protectionism, he's just saying that you might get what you want.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:34 AM

4. You usually know what you're talking about. Sorry, this time you don't.

 

We don't repeat don't repeat don't want "protectionism". Donald wants "protectionism".

We want to keep what we agreed to. Donald wants to use threats, illegal acts and naked aggression to rip us off.

We want to keep the fair impartial dispute resolution mechanism America agreed to. Donald wants that gone or else he'll wreck the North American auto industry. Donald wants America alone to "decide" all disputes. Would Valishin agree to a "deal" like that? Nope. Never. Valishin's in his right mind.

Donald wants to add farm products to the deal or else he'll commit an illegal act and wreck the North American auto industry. Donald has no right to make such a demand. He might as well ask Sophie Trudeau to wash his feet. The answer is no.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:42 AM

6. Your post is self contridictory

first sentence claims you don't want protectionism the last paragraph claims you demand to keep protectionism in place, which is it?

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Response to Valishin (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:01 AM

10. Nope. Nope. Protectionism applies to the items we agree to trade.

 

Agree. Repeat agree. Repeat agree.

Farm products? Nope. Nope. Never did. Not interested. And you can't change it unless you bring your army.

Protectionism is America committing illegal acts repeat illegal acts repeat illegal acts...

...to force concessions repeat force concessions repeat force concessions...

...to what we did agree repeat did agree repeat did agree.

I repeat repeat repeat...

...farm products (and "quality time" with Sophie) are not, were never, and never shall be, "on the table". We choose to keep our Canadian family farms and not sell them to foreign corporate interests. That's domestic Canadian social policy. Not "protection-ISM". Canada has decided that Canada wants to have farmers who own their own farms. Always have. Always will. And no little dictator can dictate our farmers away.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:53 AM

20. You don't want to call it what it is

but that's protectionism.


Oh by the way, we do have an agreement to allow trade for those products. You guys apply large tariffs to attempt to protect your own industries by artificially keeping the imports to a low number. That is literally the definition of protectionism. You seem to believe that this is a worthy endeavor which is fine arguably even noble, but that doesn't make it not protectionism.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #20)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 04:24 AM

23. A country is allowed to keep its farms under WTO rules by excluding the sector in practical terms.

 

Let's not confuse the issue. That's a red herring and we both know it.

That's a "something extra" Donald wants. And he can't have it. Let's stay with what IS, not beat that red herring and coverup all else.

Farm's a fake issue.

Back to the real issues. By the numbers. No "wiggle" room:

(1) Disputes between Canada and U.S. shall NOT be decided BY AMERICA ALONE in future. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope...

THAT'S THE WHOLE LIST OF "REAL" ISSUES.

DONALD WANTS TO TEAR UP THE DISPUTE RESOLUTION PANEL.

DONALD WANTS TO RULE ON ALL DISPUTES HIMSELF.

NOPE. CANADA DOESN'T NEED A FOREIGN DICTATOR.

I REPEAT. THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE ONLY ISSUE in the U.S.-Canada Trade Demands.

There never were any "U.S.-Canada Trade Negotiations". Lighthizer is under DIRECT orders from Donald himself to negotiate NOTHING.

Strip away all the frippery. There's only ONE U.S. demand:

In future, all disputes are to be judged and adjudicated by Donald Trump alone. Donald Trump will decide the outcome of all U.S.-Canada-Mexico trade disputes personally. No appeal.

Basically, Donald is offering to run North America. Thanks, but no thanks.

Oh, and he wants our farms too.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 03:38 AM

43. Which is still protectionism

The difference between free trade and protectionism is a binary option. Either you create barriers and are practicing protectionism or you don't and you are practicing free trade. Now you seem to believe that protectionism for the sake of protecting farming industries is a good perhaps even noble approach. That's fine, you are thus making an argument in favor of protectionism. If that's your position then own it.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #43)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 06:24 PM

44. Nope. We passed a law against a German billionaire once who insisted

 

on the right to buy all the farms in Ontario and hire our farmers back to work for him. Been down this road before. That's called an exclusion. Exclusion. Exclusion. Exclusion. Exclusion. Exclusion.

We have free trade for everything we want to trade. We took our farms off the table long before the 1987 Canada-U.S. FTA. We don't want to trade farm products. The only way we can have farms and farmers that make economic sense is with our supply management system and farm commodity marketing boards.

Donald doesn't like it? Tough titty. We're within our rights. We get to decide what we don't want to trade. What we don't want to sell and what we don't want to buy.

It's only protectionism if it's listed in the deal.

It's only protectionism if it's listed in the deal.

It's only protectionism if it's listed in the deal.

It's only protectionism if it's listed in the deal.

It's only protectionism if it's listed in the deal.

It's only protectionism if it's listed in the deal.

The Free Trade Agreement is a list of things we agree to trade.

The Free Trade Agreement is a list of things we agree to trade.

The Free Trade Agreement is a list of things we agree to trade.

If it's not in the deal we don't want to trade it.

If it's not in the deal we don't want to trade it.

If it's not in the deal we don't want to trade it.

If it's not in the deal we don't want to trade it.

If it's not in the deal we don't want to trade it.

If it's not in the deal we don't want to trade it.

Don't let's be obtuse. You wanna cry, "protectionism"?. Fine. I't doesn't apply to culturally protected sectors or National Interest. Farms are nationally protected. Our farm sector is EXCLUDED. EXCLUDED. EXCLUDED. It's not part of the Free Trade Deal. Not part of the deal. Not part of the deal. Not part of the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

Protectionism only applies to what IS in the deal.

(And because we don't want our boys to have big breasts...) we don't want your diethylsylbestrol growth-hormone beef, and we don't want to buy your nuclear materials, or your hardcore pornography, any more than you can force Muslim countries to eat your pork).

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

Exclusions are not protectionism.

TWO. PARTIES. MUST. AGREE. WHAT. THEY. WANT. TO. TRADE.

ONE PARTY CAN'T INSIST.

ONE PARTY CAN'T INSIST.

ONE PARTY CAN'T INSIST.

ONE PARTY CAN'T INSIST.

ONE PARTY CAN'T INSIST.

NOBODY CAN MAKE YOU TRADE.

NOBODY CAN MAKE YOU TRADE.

NOBODY CAN MAKE YOU TRADE.

You can't make me buy your false teeth if false teeth are not in the FTA. If I say, "No false teeth", or you say, "no cocaine", that's not "protectionism". Those are "exclusions".

Supply-managed farm products are "exclusions. Please stop misusing the "PEE" word for exclusions NOT IN THE DEAL.

Donald wants to bully them into the deal.

Donald has no right to bully them into the deal.

And we won't let Donald bully them into the deal.

Donald threatens more illegal acts if Donald can't bully them into the deal.

But they're excluded by prior agreement so Donald can't bully them into the deal.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #44)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:33 PM

48. You seem to be missing the point

protectionism isn't defined by any deals. Such a deal is how you enact protectionism.

He isn't saying you aren't within your rights, he is saying that such a choice will not occur at the expense of the US. He believes the current deals are at the US expense.

"You wanna cry, "protectionism"?. Fine. I't doesn't apply to culturally protected sectors or National Interest"
Yes it does, perhaps it is justified but it is still protectionism

"we don't want your diethylsylbestrol growth-hormone beef, and we don't want to buy your nuclear materials, or your hardcore pornography, any more than you can force Muslim countries to eat your pork"
If that is the case, then why do you need to place tariffs to prevent your people from buying those products?


No one is saying it isn't your right to make your own decisions about what you trade, with whom, or under what conditions but that works both ways. In the past, you guys got sweat heart deals because past administrations where more interested in friendship than fairness. Trump views you as a trading part first, ally second, and way down the list is friend. He believes, as do many Americans that the US got a raw deal and is working to correct that by pushing for something that is far more akin to free trade. The US believes that the closer we can get to actual free trade the better the deal for the US

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Response to Valishin (Reply #48)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:44 PM

49. Heard and understood. Then he can stick to what's on the list, and not force us on pain of illegal

 

tariff to make concessions to him.

There is much of value in your brief analysis, Valishin; enough for two additional O.P.'s beyond the limited scope of the matters at hand. I shall consider it and post if I find a way in that might offer a way forward.

Thank you for your ongoing contributions, which are valued. And excuse the hammering above. I was laying flagstones for a wider audience.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #49)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:02 PM

53. And you can pay

big tariffs until you relent on your protectionism. That's Trump's whole point. Each nation he has gone after was directly related to an imbalanced relationship that favored the other side in regards to trade. Canada and a lot of the left in the US thought Canada was immune because they are America's "little buddy" and thus would get special treatment. Trump though views you guys as big boys on par everyone else and everyone deserves equal treatment.

I'll look for those additional OPs.


For the sake of fairness and argument what you guys should be pushing back with are the subsidies the US put in place and due politics have a hard time removing because as we all know, once the government starts handing out "free" anything it becomes an expectation and nearly impossible to do away with. I think the reason that talking point hasn't been put forward is that a lot of people are afraid that if those can go away then everything is on the chopping block which is exactly the situation Trump wants to create.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #53)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:48 PM

60. Nope. If you tax items "on" the list to make demands in excluded sectors:

 

It's better we have no deal . We'll lose nothing by reverting to WTO (GATT) rules. Easier to take you to court. Quicker rulings against you, and no more hassles.

Everything you suggest he doubles down on is all, of course, illegal.

America will be alone when they lose us. And don't fool yourself. We'll be farther ahead. We're smaller. We can adapt. We're Apple. You're I.B.M.

I never wanted this bad deal in the first place. Fought against it when I worked for John Turner. Wrote Turner's speech in the famous Free Trade Debate in March '87 vs. Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.

The loss of a thing I never wanted doesn't bother me at all.

The mistake US Govt are making is to assume the FTA is something we want, not something we put up with.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #60)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 09:50 PM

62. The answer to which would be

I'm cool with that from a significant portion of the US population. The reality is you guys have a sweat heart deal and you want to keep it, nobody blames you for that. But, that doesn't mean you get to keep it while the US gets the raw end of the deal. If you want a deal that keeps the US market open to you then you deal with us an a deal that is both free and fair not one that heavily favors your side at our expense. Like it or not, agree with it or not, that's what Trump is saying.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #62)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 12:50 AM

63. Then fortunately, that's not happening.

 

Anyways, the reason for having these "side-deals" anyhow, is to streamline stuff and make things easier.

If one party, in this case Mr. Trump, wants to use it to take away things ca.163(?) other countries have under World Trade Organization rules, like the 6 Most Vital Things to the Canadian National Interest:

(1) A Dispute-Settlement Panel with both Canadian and American members

(2) A Dispute-Settlement Panel with both Canadian and American members

(3) A Dispute-Settlement Panel with both Canadian and American members

(4) A Dispute-Settlement Panel with both Canadian and American members

(5) A Dispute-Settlement Panel with both Canadian and American members, and

(6) A Dispute-Settlement Panel with both Canadian and American members.

Mr. Trump demands to replace Items #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 with Item #7:

(7) One Dispute-Settlement Judge: Donald Trump, and only Donald Trump, and no Canadians, and no appeal.

If Donald Trump does not eliminate #1-6 and replace it with Item #7, then he "slaps a 20% tariff on your cars, and that will ruin your country".

That sounds fair.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #63)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 02:58 AM

65. again you're missing the point

Trump doesn't give two hoots about the WTO he wants free and fair trade, if you want a balanced mediation agreement then make the structure a point of negotiate. He isn't after control, he is after making your market as open to us as ours is to you.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #65)


Response to Valishin (Reply #65)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 06:08 AM

69. **no (possible -- Ed.) reply**

 

Sorry. I tried. Very hard. There's no talking to a brick wall of unchanged 13-month-old talking points.

Talking points are empty shells containing no substance. Free and fair trade in sun-dappled pastures. Waving fields of grain to you too.

P.S. Here's a hint. We don't want a balanced mediation panel. Wanna know why? Take a guess. (I've told you 25 or 30 times.)

Guess it's a mystery.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #69)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 09:19 AM

72. You don't want a balanced mediation panel

because you want lopsided results to maintain your sweet heart deal. It's crazy that the other side of that arrangement would want to force a change to that system, how shocking.

You want to limit the trade options because you want to protect internal industries what confuses me is how you think this isn't protectionism or that you are surprised the US would want trade to be open both ways.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #72)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:36 AM

73. Wrong. We already f*cking have one. He wants to fu*king take it away. Play no more f*cking games

 

with me. You're just spamming my thread. Any fool can see that. Please go away.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #73)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 02:52 PM

76. You literally just said

you didn't want a balanced panel. And if memory serves me correctly you mentioned a solution where your side wins 99% of the time. Any surprise the US would be less than pleased with such a situation?

However that isn't what this is about. You keep mentioning the WTO, that group is irrelevant. You want try to make them them relevant while we don't. What we are after is simple, both sides open trade across the board for commercial sold products. If you want to structure mediation in a way that is fair and balanced so you aren't getting taking to the cleaners that is fine, we can determine that among ourselves.

Here's the real difference. You guys view trade as both territorial and global. We view trade as open and bi-llaterial.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #76)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:39 PM

79. I told you 25 times that all Trump wanted was to TAKE AWAY our (f&**ing) panel.

 

It's called "The (F&**ing) Dispute Resolution (F&**ing) Mechanism". 25 times. I've treated you with respect.

25 times you've studiously ignored this fact.

Now you pretend it's "breaking news".

Please stop playing games with me. I've tried to make this Original Post different. I've given everyone the simplest clearest easiest to understand total truth about what's really going on.

I won't let you defeat my honest effort by mixing everything up and pretending to argue with me.

Please accept my final reply to you in this thread. Thank you for your participation.

With respect, **NO FURTHER REPLY** to argumentative posters.

Thanking you.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #79)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:55 PM

82. Yet you continue to be wrong

he isn't after that, he is after removing the protectionism. You can keep claiming it but that doesn't make it true. If that's a concern then negotiate a fair and balanced structure. But what this is about is making a choice either open up your markets so that both sides are equally open or find out what the downside of protectionism looks like.

You are trying to control the conversation to make it seem like this isn't about what you guys are doing, sorry but the truth hurts and this is why you guys don't like Trump because he isn't playing the old game of keep you guys happy with deals that are better for you than for us. Well that's what America first means.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 1, 2018, 06:20 PM

84. .....

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:36 AM

5. Message to Canada. Never, ever trust the US gov't and plan according just as the rest of the world

is currently doing.

Our voting public demonstrated that we cannot be trusted in anyway or any form.

Lesson learned. Take heed.

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Response to RCW2014 (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:47 AM

7. That's why we risked $4 billion to buy a pipeline we didn't want.

 

To have a second customer for our oil. Texas refineries refused to pay us world prices because they knew we couldn't deliver to anyone else.

Now B.C. socialist Premier John Horgan won a court case to shut us down indefinitely with "environmental assessment" (stalling tactics). Now we're screwed. $4 billion down the hole, we look like fools, election's coming, Texas still gets to rip-off Alberta to run the special heavy-oil refineries designed for Venezuelan and Canadian heavy crude, and the US Govt, our former friend, former ally, (former NATO and NORAD partner too?) can absolutely not be trusted to keep its word.

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Response to RCW2014 (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 02:58 AM

9. I wouldn't trust anyone

 

That was ignorant enough to vote for the warhag.
That alone shows a serious lack of intelligence.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:03 AM

12. What's a "warhag"? Is that from Harry Potter? Or Lord of the Rings?

 

And why would one vote for a fantasy creature anyhow? This is the real world.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:05 AM

13. Thankfully this is the real world

 

And America chose President Trump and flushed the old warhag into the cesspool of history.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #13)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:31 AM

17. Oh, sorry. "Wart-hag" . Never heard that one. You meant #crookedhillary. #evilhillary. #b!tchhillary

 

#killary. #killery. #killhery. #theborgqueen. Right?

Mrs. Clinton. Right?

Yesterday I had to remind someone that #inserthere hillary is NOT a candidate for U.S. Supreme Court.

Today might I please remind you that #inserthere hillary is not a participant in U.S.-Canada Trade Demands.

There NEVER WERE any "U.S.-Canada Trade "Negotiations". Only "Demands".

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:25 PM

45. aka Cankles.

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Response to Carlos W Bush (Reply #45)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:32 PM

47. I understand 1% hydrocortisone cream is good for that. And elastic hose.

 

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:06 AM

14. It's amazing trump a crooked petty deplorable despot on a whim would say ugly things like that

Memo to myself- spend more of my vacation money in Canada. I now regularly have concert updates
for the different arenas and fests in Montreal & Quebec . It's easier to drive there than say a trump state that doesn't want me.

President Obama showed what a real USA President looks and sounds like. Soon it shall be again.


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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 03:38 AM

18. Our friends are always welcome in Canada, Gray. Thank you for your kind words.

 

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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 08:34 AM

35. ''President Obama showed what a real USA President looks and sounds like''...LOL!!!

"Trump’s lies deserve to be exposed and condemned. But Bush’s and Obama’s lies help explain why only 20 percent of Americans trusted the federal government at the end of Obama’s reign. Pretending America recently had a Golden Age of honest politicians encourages the delusion that toppling Trump is all that is necessary to make the federal government great again."

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/405653-mccarthy-deep-state-took-out-an-advertisement-in-the-ny-times

Know any low IQ/EQ morons around here who believe that "toppling Trump is all that is necessary to make the federal government great again"???

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Response to quad489 (Reply #35)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 05:36 AM

67. I have No Problem with President Trump. He can do as he likes everywhere else.

 

He shall not threaten my country. e.o.m.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #67)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 08:48 AM

71. ''I have No Problem with President Trump''...where did I ask?

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Response to quad489 (Reply #71)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:52 AM

75. Post 35 para 2.

 

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #67)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 05:46 PM

77. Or what? I doubt Trump gives a damn what you

think internet so what do you intend to do about it?

And keep your filthy oil up there. Build a pipeline across your own country. We don’t want you down here.



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Response to AmandaCMatthews (Reply #77)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 07:26 PM

78. Thank you for your comment. (n/t)

 

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #67)


Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 05:45 AM

26. How about your country pony up its share for NATO.

Canada has sponged off our protection for decades.

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Response to Carl (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:22 AM

28. I say we just annex them and have done with it.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #28)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:27 AM

29. It is just annoying,they don't pay their share for NATO.

They have used our shield to play their little socialist games and then they all seem to think they deserve a say in our politics.

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Response to Carl (Reply #29)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 09:14 PM

61. Why? If you're leaving NATO anyway and joining the Warsaw Pact?

 

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #28)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 06:57 AM

30. Pffft

Build a wall.

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Response to Carl (Reply #26)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 08:41 AM

36. Equality...only applies to everyone else except those who demand it.

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Response to quad489 (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 05:45 AM

68. Giving everyone the same thing is not equality. It's idiot-sy.

 

Your pretty meme is false. Nobody wants that. Not even idiots. And fortunately, we're not idiots.

Idiots, however, might be fooled by silly meme-maws with maws full of silly memes.

Idiots might believe we're sillybuggers if they're big enough idiots to have their minds made that sillybuggers like us believe what the silly memes say we do.

Might I suggest monkeys with typewriters memes? Monkeys with typewriters are fun.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #68)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 08:34 AM

70. ''Nobody wants that''...tell it to those demanding FREE college, FREE healthcare, basic incomes, etc

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Response to quad489 (Reply #70)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 11:50 AM

74. That's some other conversation. This is the "try to save our friendship" thread.

 

This is the "be 100% honest with the Americans" thread.

This is the "tell you the truth" thread.

This is the peacemaking thread.

This is where I stick my neck waaaay out for you. And where you have two choices: believe I'm acting in good faith, or try to cut my f*cking head off!

It's really as simple as that.

And what I recommend back home, and what happens next, depends on what I see here.

I'm doing my best. Then I'm making up my mind.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:53 AM

32. I have a lot of family in Canada.

Mostly in Alberta and the hostilities have not broken out. Trump cannot 'ruin' a country as great as Canada.

Most of my winter gear and my lobster suit I wore at Ocean Spray has Canadian tags. My Sorel boots and rain goloshes were made there too.

I can understand why you would be offended. What I don't understand is why Trump has a hard on for our greatest ally. The trade stuff is incomprehensible to me. Isn't it all about what 'The market will bear?'

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Response to sobek (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 09:22 AM

37. ".....Trump has a hard on for our greatest ally....."

While I'd rank Canada pretty highly up there, I'd hesitate to call her our "greatest" ally.

Nations have interests, not friends. Every nation in the world other than the United States acts upon this harsh truth.

At the same time everybody expects, demands, that the United States act in a principled disinterested way even when it threatens our own security and survival. We're supposed to share our all, and demand nothing in return.

When Canada acts in its own self-interests in a way that coincides with the self-interest of the United States, Canada deserves our support. When Canada acts in its own self-interests in a way that harms the self-interest of the United States, Canada deserves our kicking its ass.

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 10:53 AM

38. I can't dispute with you about motivations.

Canada is the second largest nation in the whole world. It might be in our interest to keep them close.

When I talk about ' what the market will bear,' then I'm speaking about a truly free market trade agreement, which seems impossible.

Markets and people tend to find their own natural level. For instance, I found my natural level as a skilled laborer, even though I had potential to possibly be a white collar professional, or a pro athlete. ( I liked the girls and booze too much).

Shouldn't markets be forced, through free trade, to find their natural level? Is it Canada or the US the ones inhibiting the market? That's my confusion here and appreciate you trying to explain that to me.

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 8, 2018, 07:39 PM

41. **UPDATE** 19.39 EDT: My dear Frank,

 

I am tremendously impressed by the abundance of goodwill, restraint and sheer good faith, coupled with a sincere desire to uphold the right and positive outcome, shown by each and every poster on this thread, without exception.

You have raised valid argument, through civil discourse, such as I have never before seen on this site, for which you may all receive a vote of thanks.

As you have all met me halfway, rest assured I shall endeavour to provide full and complete treatment of your each and every legitimate concern (and they're *all* legit concerns -- Ed.).

Please permit me, dear friend, to take the time to consider these legit concerns, and I am highly confident we may reach a mutually beneficial understanding of these affairs.

As the Beer Store closes at 21.00 EDT, I need to make a beer run. Back presently. Thanks again for all your help.

-- Will*

I'm having a pint. Perhaps two.

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Response to sobek (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 02:49 AM

64. He thinks we're a pushover because you're bigger than us.

 

Oueen Elizabeth I had this conversation once with the King of Spain.

When Ferdinand Magellan "discovered" the Pacific Ocean, and "claimed" as Spanish Posessions "all lands these waters touched", he talked down to little England much the same way as this American man spoke of us to his maggahats. The same maggahats who call my Prime Minister and I a pair of weak effeminate soy-boy homo faggitt whinging c&*unts in this and many threads. So this is no accident.

Tell this johnny-come-lately the same as Queen Elizabeth did: "You may have as much as you can garrison".

He's welcome to speak that way as long as he brings his army. Try to garrison a high-tech Afghanistan. Have fun.

Tonight he said he'd "let us keep" our farms. How kind of him. Perhaps a sober adult had the patience to explain a subject other than property development to this man.

To his credit, this man knows everything there is to know about property development. He knows much more than me about property development. Fortunately, this man knows far less than me about trade.

And more fortunately for us all, this man has no interest in learning anything he doesn't know.

Donald is a brilliant man. If he wanted to learn things there'd be no stopping him. Thank God.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #64)

Mon Sep 10, 2018, 10:53 PM

81. Might makes right eh?

He knows everything, don't question it lolzy. Emporer of Norte Americana.

How long have we been in Afghanistan? They must be a lot tougher than the overrated Germans. We have to police the world. And the Liberals on this site want a hot war with Russia over nothing. Good luck with that.

Suicidal fucks is how I clock our last 3 presidents.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 12:22 AM

42. I apologize, Will...

...Republicans hate Canada...Canada is everything the U.S. should be and that galls our slimy 1%...

...Canada, China and the rest of the world should just ignore the U.S....go find a new reserve currency and trade amongst yourselves...there's a bright future with China's Belt & Road Initiative and you could a strong participant...

...win/win is the way of the future, not lose/lose with us...

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Response to myohmy (Reply #42)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:30 PM

46. Perhaps they are this way because Republicans are not used to being respected.

 

From my very first day on this site, my primary and overarching goal has been, and remains, to reach out firmly and fairly toward our rock-ribbed stalwart Republicans, Conservatives and freedom-loving Civil Libertarians, that they may know they are truly loved, appreciated, valued and respected by one freedom-loving Liberal, who today speaks for a nation who together share his hope for our future together.

One Rodney King said it best once. Yes. We can get along. Can't we? We can just get along.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 07:52 PM

50. Canada's open border policy is ruining itself

Outside Canada's welfare office:



Taxpayers subsidizing more welfare

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Response to Hey Mikey (Reply #50)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:16 PM

54. Thank you for publishing the meme from our Canadian Fascist "Cultural Action Party".

 

Canada deserves more credit for the strong contributions we have made to the cause of International Fascism over the years.

Canada has been on the leading edge of Fascist theory since the 1930's and before. From the fascist Québec educator Abbé Lionel Groulx in promoting the pure laine Québeçois (the pure white wool French people), to the author of "The White N*gg*rs of North America" (yes, real! Google it -- Ed.) which led to our own homegrown murderous terrorist separatists, le front de libération du québec (the "FLQ Terrorists" for short -- Ed.) to the research into the sterilization of imbeciles and native women, and the residential schools of our pioneering Eugenics movement, so vital in steering Reinhold Heydrich and Heinrich Himmler down the path toward the Final Solution as outlined at the scholarly Wannsee Conference.

Canada has stood in the forefront of the spread of global Fascism since the heady days of The March on Rome.

Good catch, HeyMikey!

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Response to Will Morningstar (Reply #54)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:19 PM

56. Thats Canada!!!

n/t

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Response to Hey Mikey (Reply #56)

Sun Sep 9, 2018, 08:30 PM

58. Others would just toss them in the dungeon and throw away the key.

 

That's what always comes with freedom of speech and association. Murderous psychopaths need love too.

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Response to Will Morningstar (Original post)

Thu Sep 20, 2018, 07:08 PM

83. Here's another.

Wouldn't want you to leave anything up!

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