Politicspolitics

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 08:59 AM

"Trump has gone from insisting that he had nothing to do with Russia

to justifying his business efforts there"

“On at least 23 occasions since the summer of 2016, Mr. Trump has said either that he had ‘nothing’ to do with Russia, or that he has ‘no deals,’ no investments and no ‘business’ in Russia,”

"In 2008, Donald Trump Jr. told a real estate conference that Russians accounted for a significant part of the Trump’s business interests. “In terms of high-end product influx into the U.S., Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” he said. “Say, in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo, and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”"

"Trump’s younger son reportedly made similar claims, telling author James Dodson in regards to golf-course financing, “Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.”"

https://www.weeklystandard.com/stephen-f-hayes/how-trumps-lies-about-russia-were-exposed?itm_campaign=dy_rec&itm_medium=widget&itm_source=home&itm_content=item_1

This isn't about collusion to me it's about credibility and believe-ability.

80 replies, 661 views

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Arrow 80 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Trump has gone from insisting that he had nothing to do with Russia (Original post)
Independent.mind Dec 5 OP
Gunslinger201 Dec 5 #1
Independent.mind Dec 5 #2
Gunslinger201 Dec 5 #9
Independent.mind Dec 5 #11
Iron Condor Dec 5 #20
CornFed Dec 5 #32
Iron Condor Dec 5 #34
Independent.mind Dec 5 #39
Iron Condor Dec 5 #44
Independent.mind Dec 5 #45
Iron Condor Dec 5 #60
Independent.mind Dec 5 #68
TM999 Dec 5 #3
Independent.mind Dec 5 #4
docgeezer Dec 5 #5
quad489 Dec 5 #51
docgeezer Dec 5 #66
TM999 Dec 5 #18
Independent.mind Dec 5 #21
TM999 Dec 5 #23
Independent.mind Dec 5 #33
kevlar Dec 5 #35
Independent.mind Dec 5 #36
kevlar Dec 5 #37
Independent.mind Dec 5 #40
kevlar Dec 5 #56
Independent.mind Dec 5 #57
kevlar Dec 5 #58
quad489 Dec 5 #6
Independent.mind Dec 5 #7
quad489 Dec 5 #46
Independent.mind Dec 5 #47
quad489 Dec 5 #52
Independent.mind Dec 5 #54
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #8
Independent.mind Dec 5 #10
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #12
Independent.mind Dec 5 #13
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #16
Independent.mind Dec 5 #17
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #19
Independent.mind Dec 5 #22
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #25
Independent.mind Dec 5 #27
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #28
Independent.mind Dec 5 #30
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #42
Independent.mind Dec 5 #43
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #50
Independent.mind Dec 5 #55
kevlar Dec 5 #61
Independent.mind Dec 5 #64
kevlar Dec 5 #71
Independent.mind Dec 5 #72
kevlar Dec 5 #75
Independent.mind Dec 5 #76
kevlar Dec 5 #77
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #62
Independent.mind Dec 5 #63
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #65
Independent.mind Dec 5 #67
Charlie Mike Dec 5 #69
Independent.mind Dec 5 #70
rh24 Dec 5 #24
Independent.mind Dec 5 #26
rh24 Dec 5 #38
Independent.mind Dec 5 #41
Dumper Dec 5 #14
Independent.mind Dec 5 #15
blue Dec 5 #29
Independent.mind Dec 5 #31
blue Dec 5 #48
Independent.mind Dec 5 #49
blue Dec 5 #53
LineReply .
Carl Dec 5 #59
PrescientWon. Dec 5 #73
Independent.mind Dec 5 #74
PrescientWon. Dec 5 #78
Independent.mind Dec 5 #79
PrescientWon. Dec 5 #80

Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:04 AM

1. Do go on

Hillary will be in Prison before Trump is ever Impeached

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:09 AM

2. I could not care less about Hillary or where she ends up

And please point out to me where I stated, suggested or even implied that I think Trump will or should be impeached.

My only personal comment in the OP is that this isn't about collusion to me. What it is about is the credibility and believe-ability of the current president.

He can not be trusted to tell the truth.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:37 AM

9. Maybe not you

But Trump impeachment seems to be the Lefts Goal these days

I find it Odd that Hillary colluded with Fusion GPS who colluded with Christopher Steele (a Foreigner) Who Colluded with Russians (more foreigners) to dig dirt on Trump

Yet Mueller overlooks all this to investigate Trump

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:38 AM

11. Irrelevant to the current discussion.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:56 AM

20. You're trying to conflate two totally different things.

When President Trump has said he's had nothing to do with Russia. That is indeed true because it is in the context of Russia/collusion/election. That is a completely separate subject from him being the businessman that he is having done business in Russia like he has in other countries as well. Its just you having the hate and butthurt that you have want very badly to see something that is not there. Ironically, and you don't even realize it, you are the one having a credibility issue.

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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:58 AM

32. Its all smoke and mirrors with these guys.

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Response to CornFed (Reply #32)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:06 AM

34. Yup...

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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:20 AM

39. How is this about collusion or the election?

Trump's own words:
“I know nothing about Russia. I know about Russia, but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia. I don’t deal there. I have no businesses there. I have no loans from Russia.”


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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #39)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:14 PM

44. Did he not "consider" putting a Trump tower there?

Again... You're trying to conflate facts with conspiracy theories because you're butthurt President Trump won.

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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:22 PM

45. I couldn't care less he won

I voted for Gary Johnson knowing he would loose because I couldn't vote for Trump or Clinton.

This thread is not about collusion it or conspiracy theories it's about Trump's constantly changing stories and lies.

Trump's own words:
“I know nothing about Russia. I know about Russia, but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia. I don’t deal there. I have no businesses there. I have no loans from Russia.”

According to Donald Trump Jr.
"In terms of high-end product influx into the U.S., Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets”
According to Eric Trump
“Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.”

Someone is lying in these statements, tell me who you think it is.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #45)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:31 PM

60. "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" - lie

"Benghazi was because of a video" - lie
"I'm going to renegotiate NAFTA" - lie
"I'm going to shut down Guantanamo" - lie

I could keep going on.... But it wouldn't matter..



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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #60)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 02:07 PM

68. I could go on as well:

Scott Pelley: What's your plan for Obamacare?

Donald Trump: Obamacare's going to be repealed and replaced. Obamacare is a disaster if you look at what's going on with premiums where they're up 45, 50, 55 percent.

Scott Pelley: How do you fix it?

Donald Trump: There's many different ways, by the way. Everybody's got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say because a lot of times they say, "No, no, the lower 25 percent that can't afford private." But--

Scott Pelley: Universal health care?

Donald Trump: I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now.

Scott Pelley: The uninsured person is going to be taken care of how?

Donald Trump: They're going to be taken care of. I would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. And, you know what, if this is probably--

Scott Pelley: Make a deal? Who pays for it?

Donald Trump: --the government's gonna pay for it. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything.

Lie



Lie

"We enacted the biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history."
Lie

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Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:09 AM

3. This isn't about collusion to me it's about credibility and believe-ability.

Which means dick all to nothing.

It was never about collusion. Who gives a shit if he did or didn't have business dealings with Russia. He was a private fucking citizen and it is none of your or my business.

Name me a single political leader, pundit, etc. who is in the long term credible or believable.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:16 AM

4. I don't care if he was attempting to work deals in Russia as a private citizen

I do care that he lied about it and continues to lie about it and many many other things.

You don't care that he lies all the time, good for you.
Others don't share that same mindset.

You can state your opinion, emphatically if you choose to, you can point fingers at the clintion's and obama and every other political figure you care to, you can cuss and stomp you feet but some hold honesty and integrity to be core values that don't change because they are inconvenient when you support someone like Trump.

Truthfulness is a low bar to set for someone that is in high office with the ability to send our military into harms way and set policy for the nation.


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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:28 AM

5. This was never more apparent than In the

Johnson administration, whose lies about the manufactured 'Gulf of Tonkin incident ' led to the escalation of the Vietnam war into a major conflict. This war was the most destructive influence on American society since the Civil War.

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Response to docgeezer (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:35 PM

51. 100% correct, yet some people try to keep blaming Truman, or IKE, or JFK for what LBJ did...........

"This was never more apparent than In the Johnson administration, whose lies about the manufactured 'Gulf of Tonkin incident ' led to the escalation of the Vietnam war into a major conflict. This war was the most destructive influence on American society since the Civil War."

...which turned the US into a bunch of wussies too afraid to even call China out for F'ng us over on foreign trade and outright theft.

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Response to quad489 (Reply #51)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:46 PM

66. All these people were involved in Vietnam

In some way, but it was LBJ who made a covert anti-insurgency action into our biggest war since WW2. And yet I heard it referred to on NPR as Nixon's war. How's that for bias??

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:52 AM

18. You have been told he lies all the time.

He does not.

You are now just repeating programming and basing your emotional response upon it.

Where it truly counts and matters Trump has not lied. He has done everything he promised his supporters he would do or attempt to do during the last two years.

This witch-hunt is pure politics and propaganda. It is designed to deligitmize his presidency and boy the collective left sure has fallen for it.

You will excuse your own politicians worse lies. You will feign integrity but are really just a hypocrite with double standards.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:04 AM

21. You know nothing of me, my principles, my standards or the way I do business

And your attempts to distract and deflect are pathetic.

"Where it truly counts and matters Trump has not lied"
Number one you just admitted that you know Trump lies.
Number two its utter bullshit because every lie matters.
Integrity is doing the right thing and being truthful even when it undermines your position or causes you personal embarrassment or pain.

Trump is a liar. That is a known fact you just refuse to accept it.
I am not in any way talking about the Muller probe or collusion in this thread, merely pointing out that there have been many cases of verifiable lies told by Trump and as a result he has no credibility.

Keep telling yourself that those who actually have an opinion different from your own are merely "repeating programming" or reacting emotionally but that doesn't make it accurate.


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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:09 AM

23. You make assumptions about Trump, myself, and others here all the time.

Of course I 'know' you. I know what you write. I know how you argue. I know what you pretend to be when it is obvious to more than just me that you are not.

Of course Trump has lied. I have lied. You have lied. Every one lies. There is no way in fuck you can say with a straight face that 'every lie matters' and then excuse the politicians, policies, and MSM 'fake news' that I have seen you do here. So yes, I do know you because you just proved yourself the hypocrite.

No Trump is not a 'liar'. He has told some lies. There is a difference. The fact that you believe that he is a 'liar' shows me yet again that indeed you are not just differently opinionated, but indeed simply regurgitating the programming. Every candidate you have ever supported has lied. Are they then all liars? And if they are, then how do you justify voting for them and stating with pearl clutching moral imperative that 'every lie matters'?

Like I said and will say again, you regurgitate propaganda, you are a hypocrite, and you hold Trump to a double standard when compared with all other politicians including those you support.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:06 AM

33. Tell me what assumptions I have made about you?

I am a flawed person who makes mistakes and I have told lies in my life and I don't deny that.
What I have also done is attempt to learn from my mistakes, ask forgiveness from those I have hurt by those mistakes and admit to the lies and misrepresentations I have made and do whatever I could to make amends where possible.

Yes Trump is a liar.

Someone with integrity admits it when they are caught in a lie, apologizes for the lie and attempts to do better going forward. A liar deflects, makes excuses and blames others for their lies and pretends it doesn't really matter.
That is the difference between some others and this president. This president stacks lies on top of each other even in the face of proof they are lies.

According to his own words:
"I try not make mistakes where I have to ask forgiveness." Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?"

When candidates and office holders that I have supported have done what I described I withdraw my support for them.



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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:10 AM

35. Your use of the word "LIE"

is not credible or believable.

When being incorrect is a "lie" ......

When something is called a "lie" that is simply out of context......

the word has lost it's meaning.

Nice job.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #35)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:13 AM

36. Lies lead to loss of credibility

Trump willfully and knowingly states things that he knows are untrue, that is a lie.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #36)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:14 AM

37. Sure, whatever.

I consider you more of a liar than he is.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #37)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:21 AM

40. Nice that you can't refute the point so you attack me personally.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #40)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:12 PM

56. Your opinion isn't a point.

No need to refute it.

Your reply to me was nothing but repetition, did not address the subject at all.

Sharing my opinion is hardly a personal attack.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:13 PM

57. Sure, whatever

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #57)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:14 PM

58. Yeah, you lose.

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Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:29 AM

6. ''it's about credibility and believe-ability''...so you were anti-Obama/Clinton/Sanders/etc too???

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Response to quad489 (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:33 AM

7. Did not vote for any of them. Nor did I vote for Bill Clinton

My last three presidential ballots were cast for Barr in 08 and Johnson in 12 and 16.

Now tell me what do the lies of the individuals you named have to do with the credibility and truthfulness of Trump?



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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:24 PM

46. ''Johnson''...seriously, the guy for open borders, raise retirement to 75, a 23% nat'l sales tax ???

"and Johnson in 12 and 16."

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Response to quad489 (Reply #46)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:29 PM

47. I knew he had no chance of winning

I would like to see a viable third party that could actually change the game but we don't have one.

I considered leaving the ballot blank in 08, 12 and 16 but decided to throw my vote away on a throwaway candidate

Bet you voted for McCain and Romney didn't you.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #47)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:37 PM

52. So that's a YES from you for open borders, 23% nat'l sales tax, raise retirement to 75....got it!!

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Response to quad489 (Reply #52)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:52 PM

54. I have posted my thoughts on border protection

Here: https://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1015&pid=1872940
Nope I am not open borders.

The tax system in this country is a mess and needs to be addressed.
If income taxes at the local, state and federal level were eliminated and a consumption/use tax would be something I would be open to debating.

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Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:37 AM

8. The Weakest Standard

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:37 AM

10. The worthless post

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:42 AM

12. You're seriously trying to conflate denials of colluding with Russia with

having no interaction with Russia - period.

Even though Trump Jr. openly testified about business deals in Russia.

You and these idiots are trying to repackage the failed NPR smear.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:44 AM

13. I hold honesty and integrity in high esteem

This president has neither in my opinion.

Simple as that.

Don't like my opinion?
I really don't care.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:48 AM

16. If you had honor and integrity you wouldn't be pushing repackaged lies from

a bought and paid for left-wing rag.

It's not your opinion. It's a smear by those too desperate and weak minded to accept reality but hide behind of façade of principles because they also lack courage.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:51 AM

17. My opinion is that Trump is and always has been a con man

Read the stories of the vendors he stiffed on contracts.

He is an opportunistic narcissistic con man that lies all the time.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:53 AM

19. If that is your criteria for your spluttering hatred then why follow politics at all?

You're far more unprincipled than Trump and your fake morality is pure ego on your part.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:04 AM

22. I note that rather than refute the points you attack me

That speaks volumes of you.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:13 AM

25. I did refute the talking points in my 2nd post in the sub-thread.

That speaks volumes about you.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:32 AM

27. Your second post in this subthread:

"12. You're seriously trying to conflate denials of colluding with Russia with
having no interaction with Russia - period.
Even though Trump Jr. openly testified about business deals in Russia.
You and these idiots are trying to repackage the failed NPR smear"

Trump's own words:
“I know nothing about Russia. I know about Russia, but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia. I don’t deal there. I have no businesses there. I have no loans from Russia.”

Tell me how he is talking about colluding there?
I see him talking about no business interest in Russia but according to Donald Trump Jr. "In terms of high-end product influx into the U.S., Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets”
And according to Eric Trump "“Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.”
Which of them is lying?
It's pretty obvious someone is.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:36 AM

28. Well, all long as there wasn't collusion I guess that makes him your president.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:52 AM

30. Never said he wasn't the president

Never said he should be impeached.

Who is lying Turmp, Trump Jr. or Eric?

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:38 AM

42. Well, if there's no collusion and no reason for impeachment why all the bullshit?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #42)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:54 AM

43. Why won't you answer a direct question?

I didn't call for impeachment and I am not talking about collusion in this thread.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:34 PM

50. You're not calling for impeachment, you're just chanting alongside the horde that is.

quisling

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #50)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:55 PM

55. Someone seems to need to deflect and avoid answering a direct question

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #55)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:33 PM

61. I only see one person avoiding conversation here.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #61)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:43 PM

64. Of course you do

Your statement is risible.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #64)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 02:48 PM

71. Actually it is demonstrable.

As well as my earlier characterization.



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Response to kevlar (Reply #71)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:04 PM

72. So demonstrate the question I have avoided

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #72)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:24 PM

75. It isn't limited to questions.

You avoid subjects.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #75)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:28 PM

76. This thread, and the linked article, is not about collusion

It is not about the Muller investigation.
It isn't about Clinton's or the Obama's

What subject do you feel I am avoiding?

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #76)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:35 PM

77. Perhaps you should re-read the thread.

There are no feelings involved.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #55)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:38 PM

62. You're not an honest person. Choke on your question.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #62)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:41 PM

63. Poltroonly

But not unexpected.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #63)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:43 PM

65. What would be unexpected would be for you to admit you're pushing this bilge

to bolster the dems efforts to take down Trump all the while pretending you're innocent of seeking that goal.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #65)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:55 PM

67. What do the dems have to do with this?

I quoted Trump and his sons.

I then asked you a direct question about statements those three individuals have made.

I have not spoken of or even suggested impeachment proceedings need to even be considered let alone initiated.

Somehow this is about democrats???

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #67)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 02:10 PM

69. This is how we know you are being dishonest.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #69)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 02:14 PM

70. Keep attacking me

it just proves over and over that you can't address the issue at hand.

Trump and his sons tell very different stories so someone is lying.
It looks pretty obvious who that is.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:10 AM

24. Is there a past president who met you threshold for truthfullness and virtue?

I am not trying to be an asshole. I sincerely want to know.

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Response to rh24 (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:26 AM

26. In my lifetime Reagan was probably the closest

But he fell short as well but at least he had credibility and could be believed.

I get that everyone is flawed and there are not perfect and entirely honorable men.

The problem I have currently it started before the election. I as initially intrigued by Trump's run but then he started with the hyperbolic bullshit like eliminating the debt, or at least substantially decreasing it, in 8 years.
What sealed the deal for me with him was when he said "Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it." I was done listening to him.

My dad was greatest personal hero and teacher, enlisted in the Navy at 18 and retired as an E9 aviation electrician that worked on some highly classified stuff in his career. One thing he taught me was if anyone tells you they are the only one that can fix something or solve a problem walk away because they are getting ready to sell you a bill of goods

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:15 AM

38. I can relate. Although I have had the inverse reaction to Trump

Trump's hyperbole and overall demeanor was initially a deal breaker for me. I saw him as a carnie barker. The day he said that disgusting crap about McCain as a POW, I wrote on here that was it for him, he was done. At the time, I certainly believed and hoped that would be the case.

Then it came down to the actual contest between Trump and Hillary, and it was actually no contest at all. As you indicated, politicians are judged on a sliding scale. They all lie. In my view, you have to have part asshole to want to be a politician and do the things necessary to wage a modern political campaign.

I would agree with you about Reagan standing apart from the crowd in terms of honesty and integrity.. The Sainted Obama was actually deemed " Liar of the Year" by Politifact for his Obamacare whoppers..

I do not see Trump as a virtuous man. I do not see any politician as a virtuous man. But Trump has largely kept the faith with those who supported him. He made promises to people and, as best as I can tell, he has tried to keep them.

He is cocky and boastful. He exaggerates. He is prone to saying stupid shit at times. But when you strip away style, I really can't see the argument against Trump on substance.

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Response to rh24 (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 11:34 AM

41. Your reply is appreciated.

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Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:47 AM

14. He was literally truthful on all 23 occasions.

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Response to Dumper (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 09:48 AM

15. Keep believing that

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Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:44 AM

29. That sounds like a "fall back on" story to me.

If Trump is not charged with collusion, well then, gosh darn it, he is still a bad bad man because I don't like him. Oh, did I say I don't like him? I meant to say I don't believe him. He's a liar. No really, I just don't like him. He's a republican. Well, I like the democratic stuff he does, but he hasn't done much of it.

And he has tiny hands.



That's pretty transparent.

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Response to blue (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 10:55 AM

31. Keep telling yourself it all doesn't really matter

I have never voted for a democratic presidential candidate in my life.
I have voted republican or third party in every election since 1984.

Integrity and honesty matter in my opinion and it's really that simple.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #31)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:31 PM

48. You've never voted for a democratic candidate for President?

Are you trying to tell me that only republicans have integrity and honesty?

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Response to blue (Reply #48)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:33 PM

49. I am telling you I haven't found the policies or platform of a democratic presidential candidate

palatable enough to cast a ballot for one.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #49)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 12:49 PM

53. That's fine. But unfortunately, sometimes the policies/platform we want in a President

aren't always, ok NEVER, in the form of a perfect human being.

I do think that for the most part, Trump is doing everything he said he was going to try to do. The media has been fighting him 24/7 for over 2 years. He's stood the test of time.

Trump is president of the United States. He cannot possibly know ALL every minute of the day about every business transaction, relationships with hundreds of countries, taxes, laws... the list goes on and on and on.

He doesn't sit on a message board and give his opinion on the headline stories of the day. He's getting millions of things thrown at him, day after day and he's got a piranha press throwing in chunks of raw liver into the lake every single day.

As long as he keeps doing what he is doing, he's getting my vote in 2020.

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Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 01:30 PM

59. .



Do they get heavy after a while?

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Response to Independent.mind (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:05 PM

73. They never closed a deal... So no deal.

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Response to PrescientWon. (Reply #73)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:24 PM

74. Did you read the linked article?

Contradictory statements by Trump, Trump Jr. and Eric Trump.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #74)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:49 PM

78. It's really irrelevant to President Trump...

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Response to PrescientWon. (Reply #78)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:49 PM

79. Ok then.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #79)

Wed Dec 5, 2018, 03:53 PM

80. Try this instead.

Mr Trump, on the morning of September 27, 2002 did you have catsup or Sriracha sauce on your Eggs Benedict?

Trump: I don't like Sriracha sauce.

Ahahaaaa! We have evidence you ate scrambled eggs on that day!

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