Politicspolitics

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:28 AM

Professor Plump laments.

Star Member ProfessorPlum
Thanks, Trump voters. What a delicious mess you have put us in
Now the Democrats have a choice: Stand firm and let Trump and McConnell destroy the government and our country

OR

Give him money for his mirage, and lose the ability to ever stop him again, destroying democracy and our country

If he finds he can get anything he wants by shutting down the government, expect him to do that early and often.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211656096

Interesting how he employs the joke about Democrat vote fraud to bemoan threats to our "democracy" (actually a constitutional federal republic).

26 replies, 217 views

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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply Professor Plump laments. (Original post)
Charlie Mike Jan 11 OP
foia Jan 11 #1
Independent.mind Jan 11 #2
GoldwatersSoul Jan 11 #4
Independent.mind Jan 11 #6
foia Jan 11 #8
Currentsitguy Jan 11 #9
Independent.mind Jan 11 #10
Currentsitguy Jan 11 #11
Independent.mind Jan 11 #12
Currentsitguy Jan 11 #13
Independent.mind Jan 11 #15
Currentsitguy Jan 11 #17
Independent.mind Jan 11 #19
Currentsitguy Jan 11 #20
def_con5 Jan 11 #25
_eek Jan 11 #23
GoldwatersSoul Jan 11 #26
_eek Jan 11 #14
Independent.mind Jan 11 #16
_eek Jan 11 #21
Cold Warrior Jan 11 #3
rh24 Jan 11 #5
HermantownHawk Jan 11 #7
Independent.mind Jan 11 #18
_eek Jan 11 #22
Independent.mind Jan 11 #24

Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:48 AM

1. Building a border wall destroys the US government?

What a loon.

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Response to foia (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:51 AM

2. No but bypassing congress for funding when he can't get what he wants

sets a very bad precedent.

Next D president could very well say climate change, just as an example, is a "national emergency" and do the same thing, pull funding from the pentagon to deal with the supposed "emergency"

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:12 AM

4. The difference...

Trump ran a campaign based on a border wall. I think what you are seeing intransigence from Democrats because he seeks to do it. It is like in thw 1980's when congress shut foen funding for geurillas fighting communism. Their arguments were simply anti-Reagan not based on what was best for the US.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:14 AM

6. But the precedent will still be set.

It doesn't look to me like either side in this fight is attempting to negotiate in good faith, both sides seem to have adopted an all or nothing approach.

If this happens as it appears the flood-gates will open and neither side will like the ultimate result.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:19 AM

8. If side one is stalling solely for political obstinance over a tiny budget item

then it sets a very good precedent.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:23 AM

9. Not exactly

The House can and most likely will lose this fight. The lesson learned is that in future they will need to be more judicious in appropriating discretionary funds, which in the long run will go much farther for long term financial responsibility.

Yes, the House holds the power of the purse. When they use that power to give at least a portion of the budget away as "mad money" don't surprised when the Executive Branch spends it as they see fit.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:27 AM

10. I think you have too much faith in politicians to learn and apply lessons in a reasonable

manner and actually govern for the good of the nation as a whole.
I have not seen enough evidence of that by either side to hold that same faith in them.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:36 AM

11. The only thing I have faith in

Is the ability for all parties involved to want to end up on top in any power struggle. To that, I would expect the House to tighten it's control of the purse strings for future disputes. What I predict will happen is that future appropriations bills will forbid the shifting around of funds from one purpose to another without House approval. The President will still retain his Constitutional authority to declare an Emergency, but will be very limited in how he can spend money without Congressional approval. If it is a "real" emergency, there should be no problem in getting approval. If anything, it will further define and delineate the roles of the Executive and Legislative branches.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:39 AM

12. I don't even see that happening

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:41 AM

13. We shall see

The House is going to want to regain control somehow or another. I don't see any other avenue for them to pursue.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:48 AM

15. I think they will let it play out in the courts if possible and try to keep the same power

available to a president in their own party.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:55 AM

17. With RBG out and possibly not returning, I don't see that going well for them.

This fight is lost for them. All they can hope to salvage now is prevent it from reoccurring in the future.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:56 AM

19. That is yet to be seen

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:58 AM

20. That it is

But, hey, prognostication is what this board is all about!

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:44 PM

25. R's have put at least 10 proposals forward

An early one back in December by Pence eliminated the wall completely in an exchange for an end to chain migration, lower legal immigrant numbers, and a merit based approach.

Trump has dropped his wall demand he's okay with a fence.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:08 PM

23. And the next Dem may run on Climate Change, Socialized Medicine or Gun Control.

Does the fact that they ran on a plank, just give a go ahead to all the ideas they may have and state on the campaign trail? Even if it is what is wanted by an overwhelming majority, it does not change the underlying idea of following the Constitution and Federal Codes.

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Response to _eek (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:16 PM

26. Indeed...

but I believe congress can run counter to the constitutions as well. The Emergency powers were ceded to the executive for a reason so the precedent is set already. It is clear why Americans elected Trump and it is clear that the victories by the House Democrats recently were not inorganic gains. They won back ground they previously lost. Their action arent in line with the best interests of the United States or the interests of its people. They are gaming the system because they dont fear losing the areas they hold for the modt part. Those liberal communities are for the most part galvanized. Meaning Democrats feel they can win the area regardless of what they do. Even if the current rep gets his dick stuck in a chicken. The liberal constituency will re-elect without consideration. This was not the intent of the constitution.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:48 AM

14. It has been invoked 58 times since it's inception in 1976


I think at last 20 of those are still ongoing...

http://time.com/5496270/presidents-history-national-emergency/

So this is already precedent.

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Response to _eek (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:54 AM

16. Even the article you linked says this is different

and could be a game-changer

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:00 PM

21. And I stand by my post. It will not give anyone ideas they didn't have before.

The last 100 years is nothing but a tale of one side trying to race the other to the bottom and dragging the entire country down with them..

Actually the argument can be made it started in 1789 when the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:05 AM

3. Professor Plump? Great pun!

Good one Chuckie!

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:14 AM

5. Yesterday, there were posts comparing the CBP to Nazis--even though over half are Hispanic.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:14 AM

7. The House should just do its job....

.....and give trump his wall.

Everyone would benefit. Everyone.

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Response to HermantownHawk (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:55 AM

18. Everyone would benefit from comprehensive immigration reform

that makes punishment for hiring illegals financially crippling as well.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #18)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:03 PM

22. This should be the main axis of change.

Real time, and real fines for anyone hiring, housing and financing people here illegally.

The large majority of illegals just want a better life for themselves, they are not monsters. And many here would do the same. The actual criminal mindset is from those that abuse those people for their own profit to the detriment of both the immigrant and their fellow citizens.

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Response to _eek (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:09 PM

24. On that we agree.

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