Politicspoliticstieronepostersplaywithpoocavedwellingprimitives

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:03 PM

Three to six months to fix the 737 Max software

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/14/boeings-fix-for-737-max-may-take-three-to-six-months-bank-of-america-predicts.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

The real question becomes how did the “faulty” software get released in the first place. The industry software release processes need to be reviewed.

19 replies, 273 views

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Response to TheShoe (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:07 PM

1. There is nothing wrong with the plane...

That qualified pilots wouldn't fix.

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Response to EagleKeeper (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:16 PM

2. If they were properly trained.

That is an issue too.

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Response to TheShoe (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:23 PM

3. It is

Frankly I am suspicious of an aircraft that is designed to be inherently unstable. It places too much reliance on the computers.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:25 PM

4. The direction is to fly planes without pilots

Rather By someone sitting in an office like they do drones.

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Response to TheShoe (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:28 PM

5. Guess I'm old fashioned that way

Machines cannot react to new and out of the ordinary circumstances. One need only watch a few episodes of Air Crash Investigation to see how may "We never considered that" situations can arise.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:29 PM

6. The rollout will take decades.

But it is inevitable imo.

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Response to TheShoe (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:30 PM

7. Sadly, I think you're right

There will always be "real" services and experiences for people willing and able to pay the premium price, however.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:35 PM

8. Craft air travel

Hand flown planes.

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Response to TheShoe (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:39 PM

10. The difference between a chauffeur driven limo and riding the bus.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 03:47 PM

13. Fly by wire can have some terrifying human dimensions

I've come back and read this article several times over the years, because it's utterly terrifying. It's about Flight 447, the Air France flight that dropped into the Atlantic, because one of the pilots didn't understand the parameters of the computer he trusted to correct flight anomalies.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/a3115/what-really-happened-aboard-air-france-447-6611877/

Similar happened with American Airlines flight 587 that crashed in New York shortly after 9/11. The co-pilot thought the system wouldn't allow aggressive pedal inputs on the vertical stabilizer, and he snapped the damn thing off, killing everyone on board. (It was very sad, as I know the husband of one of the flight attendants. He wrote book about the experience that was brutal to read).

I'm an airplane crash . . . well, I wouldn't say enthusiast. But I hate flying, and I read and watch way too much about air disasters. I fly fairly often, and every take-off I'm white-knuckling the situation. (I know it's irrational and flying is very safe). But this last paragraph from the Flight 447 article haunts me, and this MAX stuff made me think of it:

"But the crash raises the disturbing possibility that aviation may well long be plagued by a subtler menace, one that ironically springs from the never-ending quest to make flying safer. Over the decades, airliners have been built with increasingly automated flight-control functions. These have the potential to remove a great deal of uncertainty and danger from aviation. But they also remove important information from the attention of the flight crew. While the airplane's avionics track crucial parameters such as location, speed, and heading, the human beings can pay attention to something else. But when trouble suddenly springs up and the computer decides that it can no longer cope—on a dark night, perhaps, in turbulence, far from land—the humans might find themselves with a very incomplete notion of what's going on. They'll wonder: What instruments are reliable, and which can't be trusted? What's the most pressing threat? What's going on? Unfortunately, the vast majority of pilots will have little experience in finding the answers."

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Response to Prismmonkey (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 06:19 PM

15. Yep...same thing with passenger vehicles as more & more ''safety'' systems get relied upon for...

...the daily driving routine. And then one day the system will malfunction and the driver will have no clue how to correct the out of control vehicle cause they've never drove a vehicle w/o those "safety" systems operating...............

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Response to quad489 (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 06:41 PM

17. It's already happening

There's already been fatalities because the drivers are paying no attention, trusting the computer.

I saw a horrifying video the other day where a man was *sleeping* while his Tesla drove. Watch this video and know terror:



But there are also videos of some nice accident aversions as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=19&v=OTyo4iQeA1I

I think the technology very much has the potential to save many lives on the road. But it's still in its infancy and drivers cannot be inattentive or be made to feel falsely secure. That's one of my big concerns about automation. Humans have a natural inclination to be lazy or inattentive if they can be.

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Response to TheShoe (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 02:38 PM

9. Way too long for the software fix...

"The real question becomes how did the “faulty” software get released in the first place. The industry software release processes need to be reviewed."

....and you are correct, just how did that code get approved? Was it outsourced to the lowest bidder??

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Response to quad489 (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 03:53 PM

14. They'll patch it later!

God, if that wasn't so standard in tech in general, I'd say I was joking.

It's depressing how many software companies will toss out shitty code just to make that coin, with the idea they'll eventually get around to dealing with the bugs. Most of my friends are in tech, and I'm currently studying software engineering (I hate social services). It's sadly an industry standard at this point.

I'd think something as vital as code for flying an airplane would be held to a much stricter standard, but who the fuck knows at this point. Someone done fucked up.

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Response to Prismmonkey (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 06:20 PM

16. No doubt, it's not like it was coding for the 0bamacare website.............

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Response to quad489 (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 06:42 PM

18. I had the best of times during that

Not that I wanted Obamacare to fail, but just for the sheer fuck-uppery involved.

Sometimes massive human incompetence is a joy to behold.

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Response to quad489 (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 08:52 PM

19. It's not faulty...all airframes have their quirks...

The problem is they didn't dumb it down enough for pilots that are not type qualified.

You don't see the max planes falling out of the sky in the U.S. for a reason.

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Response to TheShoe (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 03:07 PM

11. That reads like a Scientific Wild-Ass Guess by BofA.

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Response to TheShoe (Original post)

Thu Mar 14, 2019, 03:09 PM

12. I doubt it's just a software fix. There will have to at least be some hardware changes

They need redundant angle of attack sensors, for one thing.

Not sure whether they can give command of horizontal trim back to the pilots in an easier way without hardware changes. Currently the pilots have to restore trim by spinning manual trim control wheels on either side of the center console.

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