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Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:21 AM

Should students be allowed to violently defend themselves in school

A female high school student has been expelled from her school after she kneed a boy in the groin while he was blocking her from leaving the girls bathroom. The boy, along with 6 other male students, entered the girls’ restroom at North Pole High School in Alaska to protest a selfie taken in a boy’s bathroom by a student transitioning from female to male.

https://rare.us/rare-news/education/high-school-student-knees-boy-in-groin/

Zero tolerance policies say that anyone using violence - even if in self defense - must be punished.

This girl also seems to have run afoul of the fact she struck first.

Me personally? I wouldn't be mad if she was my daughter. I'd tell her she had every right to defend herself and she should do so again if she has to.

24 replies, 223 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Should students be allowed to violently defend themselves in school (Original post)
Charlie Mike Apr 18 OP
Butchie_T Apr 18 #1
Independent.mind Apr 18 #2
oflguy Apr 18 #3
Independent.mind Apr 18 #4
oflguy Apr 18 #6
Independent.mind Apr 18 #7
oflguy Apr 18 #8
Independent.mind Apr 18 #9
oflguy Apr 18 #10
Independent.mind Apr 18 #11
oflguy Apr 18 #12
Independent.mind Apr 18 #13
oflguy Apr 18 #18
Independent.mind Apr 18 #19
Hades Apr 18 #21
quad489 Apr 18 #5
Squeek Apr 18 #14
Charlie Mike Apr 18 #16
Valishin Apr 18 #15
His Daughter Apr 19 #23
Lowrider1984 Apr 18 #17
Hades Apr 18 #20
His Daughter Apr 19 #24
His Daughter Apr 19 #22

Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:05 AM

1. Dipshit got what he deserved for being stupid

The girl should not have been expelled for this.

Schools have gone way too far with this zero tolerance bullshit.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:08 AM

2. I don't fault her for what she did

Zero tolerance policies are what they are and circumstances are most often not taken into account.
One thing, I think she should have been allowed to attend prom but I don't make the policy for this school in Alaska.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:14 AM

3. Just wondering

If a transgender was blocking a boy from exiting a bathroom, would you support the guy for kneeing the transgender?

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Response to oflguy (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:16 AM

4. If the boy felt threatened yes I would

If done out of spite, hate or to show off no I would not.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:25 AM

6. Well, I was ALMOST impressed

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Response to oflguy (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:28 AM

7. If the boy was trapped by 6 transgenders as was the case here

or in any way felt threatened I would have no issue with it.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:29 AM

8. That's mighty gracious of you

Considering your usual bias

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Response to oflguy (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:55 AM

9. Listen

I had a similar situation with my daughter when she was a sophomore in high school.

She had two boys that were being complete assholes, making crude comments and following her around because she refused to go out with one of them. The school knew what was going on and just gave us the ignore it and it will stop crap.

I told her after a couple of weeks of it to punch the little shit as hard as she could the next time he made those disgusting remarks, she has two brothers and is able to take care of herself.

She did just what I told her to do and knocked the little bastard off his feet. She ended up expelled for 10 days but it was well worth it.

I told the principal, who just happened to be the uncle of the kid she punched, that had he done his job it wouldn't have happened.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:00 AM

10. Not the same thing

not even close

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Response to oflguy (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:12 AM

11. Way to miss the point entirely

Sometimes shit happens and the consequences are worth it because you know you did the right thing.

Also I did not say they were the same thing, just similar in that this girl and my daughter did the right thing and were punished for doing it.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:16 AM

12. You'll figure it out one day hopefully

If you ever get over your bias

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Response to oflguy (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:34 AM

13. My bias is to individual rights and freedoms

You will figure out one day that just because someone doesn't agree with you on everything they may not be what you think they are.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:21 PM

18. Your bias is very obvious

Always is

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Response to oflguy (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:41 PM

19. Thank you

and so are yours.

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Response to Independent.mind (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:40 PM

21. It is like prison in that regard.

From what I understand, in prison, you can get written up for being in a fight just for getting sucker punched and never having defended yourself.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:18 AM

5. No different than lefties banning guns because they're afraid of women who can fight back...........

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:54 AM

14. He shouldn't have

entered the girls' bathroom, but...

she didn't have to do what she did, either. She could have screamed bloody murder while slamming the stall doors and attracted a lot of attention.

Voila....she gets away from the idiot and she doesn't get into trouble for assaulting him.


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Response to Squeek (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:57 PM

16. How much commotion is she obligated to raise?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:55 PM

15. There are a couple issues to address

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:48 PM - Edit history (1)

First should a kid be allowed to use violence to protect themselves, absolutely yes. Anyone claiming otherwise is out of their mind. Now that doesn't mean violence should be anyone's default, there's an escalation process. These absolute rules to the contrary have no basis in reality.

With that said, the problem with the example given is that it presumes a threat but doesn't provide support for that presumption. Maybe there was a threat maybe there wasn't, however those boys making her uncomfortable by simple presence or her assuming they wouldn't let her leave are not themselves threats. Now if she tried to leave and let's say they pushed her back or simply closed the door and held it shut then there's a threat and her reaction would be justified.

Unless they were trying to force her in their protest picture then it wouldn't make sense for them to harass her so it may be that she was mad they were there and took action likely including an argument on the issue, or she felt intimidated by their numbers and decide to strike preemptively. The point is the details on how that went down greatly impact justification and those details were left out of the story.

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Response to Valishin (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:27 AM

23. Good thoughts...this is not a clear case of self defense

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:59 PM

17. Let me get this straight.

A girl who is pretending to be a boy, goes into the boy's restroom, prances around taking selfies, and DEMANDS to be accepted as a "boy".
Some of the (real) boys in the school go into the girl's restroom to take selfies, and a (real) girl knees one of the (real) boys in the groin.
Zero tolerance rules dictate that she used violence in school and is expelled. Sounds about right to me, except the girl pretending to be a boy should have also been kicked out for disrupting school.

But that's just me. I have no patience for mentally deficient exhibitionists looking for attention.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:36 PM

20. I will go a step further.

For kids that are continuously bullied AND the school has done nothing to stop it or basically nothing, they should keep an extra sharp pencil on them and jab it into the neck of the bully as deep as they can and pull it out the next time they are getting tossed around. They can say they feared for their life and the person had a history of violently attacking them.

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Response to Hades (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:35 AM

24. The key to that is documenting and on the record complaints

A witness would be useful as well of the bullying and the actual violence. Too many times when someone gets called out for bullying they immediate turn on the person who reported it. Warnings to stay away from them works less effectively than the TROs for domestic violence.

I saw some interesting cases of improvised weapons in the civilian trauma center. Pencils, knitting needles, even a red lacquered chopstick embedded in someones thigh.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 02:25 AM

22. Something along these lines happened to me in HS

The violence was off campus and the district did not have long arm type rules at the time. Counselor tried to get me expelled anyway. I've posted about it before. Today I most likely would have been. I was called a trained killer...which compared to my fellow students I was. However, it was a 3 on 1 attack.

District policy cannot overrule the basic rights to self defense. If a student stopped a shooting by punching the perp out, they would be a hero, so the policy is never absolute.

However, blocking the door is not the same a assault. A well executed crotch shot can cause a lifetime of problems. As described, it is not quite a clear self defense situation. I did not read that there are risk of immediate harm.

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