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Fri Nov 8, 2019, 07:19 PM

Does the Constitution give the President the authority to decide if impeachment is "legitimate?"

It seems pretty dumb if so. The very person that impeachment is designed to remove from office is allowed to decide whether the impeachment is legitimate or not? That just seems like a huge loophole to me. It's like an ultra-Miranda warning where at the end they say, "Do you agree you should be arrested?" and, if you say no, they just let you go with an apology.

Is that loophole really in the Constitution as Trump and his Republicans seem to believe? (If it's there, please point out the text.)
15 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Yes, for an impeachment of a President to proceed, the President must certify that it is legitimate
3 (20%)
No
12 (80%)
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Reply Does the Constitution give the President the authority to decide if impeachment is "legitimate?" (Original post)
swifty Friday OP
Da Mannn Friday #1
jh4freedom Friday #2
Da Mannn Friday #4
jh4freedom Friday #9
HermantownHawk Friday #10
foia Friday #11
Charlie Mike Saturday #13
Carl Saturday #15
HermantownHawk Friday #5
jh4freedom Friday #7
HermantownHawk Friday #8
Squeek Friday #6
Charlie Mike Saturday #14
Nostrings Saturday #16
Carlos W Bush Friday #3
foia Friday #12

Response to swifty (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 07:49 PM

1. Well, stop running an illegitimate impeachment.

1) Give the Republicans the same rights that they gave the Democrats with the Clinton impeachment.
2) Stop the secret hearings.
3) present real charges and not pretend false accusation.
4) Lefty needs to STOP the lies.

do all that Swifty, and then you will be legitimate.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 08:16 PM

2. The Constitution makes it clear

1) “Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.”—Article 1, Section 5, Clause 2
2) “the House of Representatives shall have the SOLE power of impeachment.” (Article 1, Section 2).
3) “the Senate shall have the SOLE power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law. (Article 1, Section 3).

The House can use any rules it sees fit to draft a Bill of Impeachment.
The Senate can use any rules it sees fit to try an impeachment.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 08:32 PM

4. If the house rules create a Soviet style show trial, it IS illegitimate.

There is no way you can paint this as a normal investigation

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 10:16 PM

9. When was the last time an alleged perpetrator had any due process rights

In a Grand Jury investigation? Grand juries meet in secret and prosecutors alone conduct the proceedings any way they see fit. An impeachment inquiry is like a grand jury.

“Grand Jury Proceedings”

“How a grand jury works is much more relaxed than normal court room proceedings. There is no judge present and frequently there are no lawyers except for the prosecutor. The prosecutor will explain the law to the jury and work with them to gather evidence and hear testimony. Under normal courtroom rules of evidence, exhibits and other testimony must adhere to strict rules before admission. However, a grand jury has broad power to see and hear almost anything they would like.

However, unlike the vast majority of trials, grand jury proceedings are kept in strict confidence. This serves two purposes:
It encourages witnesses to speak freely and without fear of retaliation.
It protects the potential defendant's reputation in case the jury does not decide to indict.

The Grand Jury's Decision and a Prosecutor's Discretion
Grand juries do not need a unanimous decision from all members to indict, but it does need a supermajority of 2/3 or 3/4 agreement for an indictment (depending on the jurisdiction). Even though a grand jury may not choose to indict, a prosecutor may still bring the defendant to trial if the prosecutor thinks he or she has a strong enough case. However, the grand jury proceedings are often a valuable test run for prosecutors in making the decision to bring the case.

If the grand jury chooses to indict, the trial will most likely begin faster. Without a grand jury indictment, the prosecutor has to demonstrate to the trial judge that she has enough evidence to continue with the case. However, with a grand jury indictment, the prosecutor can skip that step and proceed directly to trial.”
https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/how-does-a-grand-jury-work.html

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 10:24 PM

10. Impeachment.....

......is not a criminal procedure.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 11:30 PM

11. You just blew your whole cover, jh

It's LIKE a grand jury. Yeah, sort of, but it ISN'T a grand jury so grand jury rules don't apply.

Once you've admitted that it isn't a grand jury, as you just have, your whole argument has no merit.

Thanks for being honest (unintentionally I'm sure) and admitting that you're full of smoke.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 05:36 AM

13. Which is it, Stalin?

Is this like a criminal proceeding so you can can play like a grand jury or is this not like a criminal case so you don't have to abide by due process?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #13)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 05:43 AM

15. It always depends on the moment and the demands.

Remember how Kavanaugh was not entitled to due process since it was a job interview but they demanded a criminal FBI investigation of him.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 08:36 PM

5. The Sixth Amendment.......

......gives the President some say-so in the matter.

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Response to HermantownHawk (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 10:05 PM

7. Did Andrew Johnson have a say so?

Richard Nixon? Bill Clinton?
Donald Trump will have no say so in his impeachment INQUIRY other than whining and raging.

I am certain that he will be accorded full 5th and 14th Amendment due process and 6th Amendment Rights to confront his accusers by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell ***IF*** there is an impeachment TRIAL.
President Trump would not become a criminal defendant until a Bill of Impeachment would have been passed in the House.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #7)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 10:11 PM

8. Which is why.....

.....this completely partisan exercise will result in a quick acquittal in the US Senate and a ridiculous waste of time for the US Government and American citizens.

The democrats are not capable of accepting the results of the November 2016 elections.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 09:54 PM

6. Perfectly legitimate

1. Rump has the same. or similar, rights that were afforded to Clinton

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/03/775152421/fact-check-is-the-trump-impeachment-process-different-from-nixon-and-clinton


2. Secret hearings will be public starting next week.

3. No "charges" have been filed. Yet. For now it's just testimony

4. What "lies" does "Lefty" have to stop?


Also, I have to ask...

whatsamatta? You guys losing confidence? Honestly, Rumpies are running around here on DI insisting that there will not be an impeachment. What's with all the hand-wringing, etc.? Why are you guys getting yourselves all lathered up over something that you say will never happen?

????

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Response to Squeek (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 05:38 AM

14. Can you name the crime to justify hearings, public or closed?

And, no, we're not losing it.

Your witnesses are collapsing one after another under the most basic cross examination (when Schiff allows it).

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Response to Squeek (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 9, 2019, 09:34 AM

16. Number 1 is a bold faced lie and everyone here knows that it is, including you yourself.

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Response to swifty (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 08:24 PM

3. LOL @ Solesurvivor.

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Response to swifty (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2019, 11:33 PM

12. Hint: 1A

The President has First Amendment rights to voice his opinion, just like every other US citizen.

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