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Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:17 PM

In "Red Dawn", the actors playing the wolverines play the good guys or the bad guys?


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Reply In "Red Dawn", the actors playing the wolverines play the good guys or the bad guys? (Original post)
Nostrings Dec 1 OP
Pennsylvania Dec 1 #1
Charlie Mike Dec 2 #2
_eek Dec 4 #3
Nostrings Dec 4 #4
_eek Dec 4 #28
Nostrings Dec 4 #29
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #5
Banshee 3 Actual Dec 4 #6
Steelydamned Dec 4 #7
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #9
Steelydamned Dec 4 #11
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #12
Nostrings Dec 4 #13
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #15
Nostrings Dec 4 #17
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #18
Crazy D Dec 4 #19
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #23
Nostrings Dec 4 #20
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #24
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #8
Steelydamned Dec 4 #10
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #14
Steelydamned Dec 4 #16
outside Dec 4 #21
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #22
outside Dec 4 #25
Steelydamned Dec 4 #26
GoldwatersSoul Dec 4 #27

Response to Nostrings (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:55 PM

1. The good guys fighting the mostly Hispanic invasion

“The film depicts the United States invaded by the Soviet Union and its Cuban and Nicaraguan allies.”

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Response to Nostrings (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:19 AM

2. How could killing control freaks be bad?

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Response to Nostrings (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:38 AM

3. Good guys doing bad guy things.

Such is war, and before anyone whines, yes indiscriminate killing of soldiers and civilians is a bad thing, the same things I myself would do.

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Response to _eek (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:36 AM

4. You must have seen a different 'red dawn' than the rest of us...

The killing portrayed on the part of the 'wolverines' was quite discriminate.

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Response to Nostrings (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 06:15 PM

28. No civilians in the outreach center?


Lemme guess, collaborators?

Nice spin, but still killing fellow Americans. As I said, quite clearly, I would do the same, I just don't kid myself on the morality/ legality of it.

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Response to _eek (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 07:02 PM

29. Did you see civies killed in the outreach center? I didn't.

You're PRESUMING there were some, and that they weren't made aware of the bomb or even the plot, and, you PRESUME that they weren't PART of the plot (which they almost certainly would have been)...

"Nice spin, but still killing fellow Americans."

The word in question is INDISCRIMINATE.

Again, I saw no indiscriminate killing. I saw targeted killing with a purpose and a point, which is by definition NOT indiscriminate. You can label deliberate targeted killing a lot of different ways, but indiscriminate isn't one of them.

"I just don't kid myself on the morality/ legality of it."

There is nothing immoral what so ever about fighting against real tyranny, even up to the point of killing.

Legality is a point of view, when things reach that point, not the legitimate standard it is under normal conditions.



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Response to Nostrings (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 09:27 AM

5. The Wolverines were really stupid....

They holed up in the mountains but didnt destroy the roads leading to the mountains where they were?

Let's say they didnt have explosives, why not roll hundreds of big rocks onto the road.

So. In one scene, American fighters blow up tanks....but wouldnt the Russians have had radar and at least tried to intercept the American fighters? We know the Russians had fighter jets there as seen at the end of the movie when they invade town.

Why would the Russians want to hold a small town in Colorado?

The Wolverines never really fortify their living area...they just keep living in tents.

When the Air Force Colonel gets shit down...he doesnt try to lead these kids to safety, he stays and tries to do ops with them. Seems to me they were better for intelligence that could be fed to the real military.

Lots of stuff that never made sense to me in that movie.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:03 AM

6. Desantniks is why

the enemy which pursued them into the mountains was Soviet Airborne forces, ever hear of Helicopters? roads don't mean much as an LZ big enough to land

The Kids are just that, Kids with no military training to build bunkers or abatis for roads

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:09 AM

7. No doubt....

...remember when the Colonel was laying out his detailed plan replete with military jargon and at the end, the kids were like "Whats grazing fire?" or "Whats a flanking maneuver?"


Still a good movie though....loved it when I was in high school.

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Response to Steelydamned (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:22 AM

9. So why didnt he try to get them to safety...

Rather than let them fight an op they were not suited for?

It was much better movie when you can suspend disbelief. I have a hard time with that concept.

That is why I never got into porn.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:27 AM

11. 'Cause it wasn't in the script?

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Response to Steelydamned (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:29 AM

12. Yeah....

My logic based film would entertain nearly NO ONE!!

Wolverines!!!

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:31 AM

13. Easier said than done, when...




In the relative safety of the mountains, but also deep within occupied and controlled territory.

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Response to Nostrings (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:37 AM

15. Sure....

2 or 3 day walk.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:48 AM

17. Sounds great, until you define "enemy lines" militarily.

More specifically, BEHIND enemy lines.

Sure, you may have 35 miles of no real trouble, sneak and hide...but when you get within 5 miles of the lines, your opportunities end.

Are you under the impression that they leave battle lines in a war of, or one which at least includes occupation, unmanned or unguarded?

It isn't like they just put up a fence or a flag and move their forces elsewhere.

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Response to Nostrings (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:21 PM

18. No....

But since it is virtually impossible to cover all areas...and there are many instances of troops getting lost and finding themselves behind enemy lines. It seems quite possible that they could have made an attempt....especially since the OP they took against the Russians in town could have been planned to break into safe territory.

Again...all theoretical and I dont have military experience. Just supposition.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:30 PM

19. You forget that the kids had family in the area

That could have been a motivation to stay in the area.

Military experience is one of the reasons where I think the 2012 remake was a slightly better movie (except for changing the bad guys to NoK's from Chinese.....that sucked). The US Military did try to insert some type of Spec Op's team in to help the Wolverines in the 2012 remake. That's something that could have helped the 1984 Wolverines....an Spec Ops team and you would think in a real world 1984 Red Dawn would have been high on the USA's military list of "things to do".

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Response to Crazy D (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:49 PM

23. Yeah...

I hadn't considered that.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:54 PM

20. Remember also, the purported scale of this war.

"Hell, you boys are in occupied territory. You're 40 miles behind enemy lines. That's smack dab in the middle of World War 3."

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Response to Nostrings (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:54 PM

24. I think I need to remember....

MST3K.....repeat to myself it's just a show...I should really just relax.

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:20 AM

8. I have no military experience...

Just using logic.

You can get into the mountains without vehicles as you mentioned.....but the tanks arent airborne units.

Had they built underground dwellings etc. They could have used the NVA method of dropping into holes when the Helicopters showed up.

I also think the earth dwellings would have been better for winter.

In the end....I think the movie would have sucked had they done what I suggest.

Not to mention the fact that a rural town in Colorado would have been easy.to cut off the Water and electricity from a long distance away.

Since the electricity would have most likely come from coal fired plants....and trucking and mining would essentially shut down....I dont think there would be any electricity anyway.

Same problem with food. Without trans log...how did the Russians and Cubans feed the people....if they didnt concern themselves with that...wouldnt there be famine??

What was the strategic nature of the town? Seems like the Wolverines could have considered that and destroyed said object of strategic value thus eliminating the interest in the city?

Forgive me...I have always had a hard time with movies. No one like to go to them with me.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:25 AM

10. I dig....

...where you're coming from but, like with most movies, you kinda have to suspend your disbelief to enjoy it.

Probably my all time favorite is The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. I would sit glued to the TV on Saturdays watching those spaghetti westerns and Eastwood was the epitome of cool. But, even then I knew the almost impossibility of Blondie slinging that poncho back and offing 4 bad guys with pinpoint accurate, spectacular, pistol fanning shots from the hip.

Still Cool AF though

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Response to Steelydamned (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:36 AM

14. You are right...

Suspension of disbelief is a personal failing of mine.

I had to learn to love Casablanca. I watched it and I was like...why would the Nazis give a shit about letters of transit signed by DeGaulle???!!!

I too loved Spaghetti Westerns. However again....my fragile ability to just enjoy them used to bother those around them.

We often used cold roll iron on our ranch growing up.. like Clint wore under his poncho. The thickness it would have to be to sustain gunshots. Would have made it nearly impossible for him to put over his head by himself. Or to walk with it on.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:45 AM

16. Never even considered that!

No matter though, I still think it's a great flick..

A couple of years back, I had to satisfy my obsession with the film by purchasing this:



It's a working replica of course from Cimarron Arms chambered in .38. Very accurate and fun to shoot and, I can do some fanning with it but, it's not very accurate with that method

Of course, the Colt Navy that Eastwood used wasn't even really available at the time the film was supposed to take place in but, no matter, it was still cool as shit and everyone that comes to my house wants to see it as I have it in a cool display case.

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Response to Nostrings (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:00 PM

21. I remember when the movie came out

Cuba and Venezuela were working with the USSR in the war with America and lefty was not happy with Cuba and Venezuela being shown as a threat to the US.

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Response to outside (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:43 PM

22. Not Venezuela...

Perhaps El Salvador and Guatamala.

Venezuela was a capitalist country at that time....or are you talking about the new one?

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:06 PM

25. Your right.

It was a south or central American country that just became communist and year or two before the movie came out.

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Response to outside (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:20 PM

26. I thought they were Cubans?

But it's been a few years.....

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Response to Steelydamned (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:14 PM

27. Cubans...and I think Salvadorenos..

I remember in the film...the Cuban commander is complaining about his dead soldiers in the street...that he say it in El Salvador and Angola.....shit like that.

But there were 800,000 screaming Chinamen on our side.

The movie is a little anachronistic.

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