Politicspolitics

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 01:35 PM

Socialism & Communism The Most Murderous And Anti-Human Governance In History

- The most anti-freedom
- The most concentration of power & wealth in the hands of a few
- The most intrusive into one's personal life
- The most controlling of one's personal life
- The most intolerant
- Produces the lowest standards of living among the masses
- Produces the least innovations
- Produces the least opportunities
- Produces the most misery and despair

This is what brainwashed lefty ignorantly wants...

46 replies, 644 views

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Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply Socialism & Communism The Most Murderous And Anti-Human Governance In History (Original post)
Iron Condor Dec 2 OP
Charlie Mike Dec 2 #1
jh4freedom Dec 2 #9
Charlie Mike Dec 2 #13
jh4freedom Dec 2 #33
Charlie Mike Dec 3 #42
myohmy Dec 2 #20
Muddling Through Dec 2 #22
JanetS Dec 2 #2
foia Dec 2 #3
Solesurvivor Dec 2 #4
DP46 Dec 2 #7
jh4freedom Dec 2 #5
Steelydamned Dec 2 #6
jh4freedom Dec 2 #8
Steelydamned Dec 2 #11
jh4freedom Dec 2 #15
Charlie Mike Dec 2 #16
Steelydamned Dec 2 #17
Iron Condor Dec 2 #19
jh4freedom Dec 2 #21
Muddling Through Dec 2 #24
jh4freedom Dec 2 #27
Iron Condor Dec 2 #35
jh4freedom Dec 2 #37
Muddling Through Dec 2 #25
jh4freedom Dec 2 #28
Muddling Through Dec 2 #29
jh4freedom Dec 2 #30
Muddling Through Dec 2 #34
jh4freedom Dec 2 #38
jh4freedom Dec 2 #39
jh4freedom Dec 3 #40
jh4freedom Dec 3 #41
Muddling Through Dec 3 #45
Carl Dec 2 #18
jh4freedom Dec 2 #31
Carl Dec 3 #43
GoldwatersSoul Dec 2 #10
jh4freedom Dec 2 #12
GoldwatersSoul Dec 2 #14
Muddling Through Dec 2 #23
jh4freedom Dec 2 #32
Muddling Through Dec 3 #46
swifty Dec 2 #26
Trumplethinskin Dec 2 #36
Carl Dec 3 #44

Response to Iron Condor (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 01:38 PM

1. Killing commies is always an act of self defense.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 04:45 PM

9. As is playing "Let's Make A Deal"


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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:04 PM

13. Deals get you something you want. Obama just fellated commies for free.







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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 09:43 PM

33. I don't know how to break this to you.

But the commies have been out of power in Russia since December, 1991.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 03:24 AM

42. Good ol' jh4propaganda,

Always lying by saying things that don't matter.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:56 PM

20. those...

...are Big-Times Commies the Great Satan is shaking hands with...why?

...because they're all close friends...and that's okay

...as I've pointed out elsewhere, 'Commie' only works on people over the age of 60...most average Americans under 50 don't even know what a Communist is or was yet alone are willing to run in fear when they hear 'Commie'...

...people today are looking for pragmatic problem-solving ideas and solutions for our entrenched capitalist problems...and that means Socialism has become the NEW answer....

...and don't those yelling 'Commie' realize they're only dating themselves with an antiquated fear-mongering term no one buys or understands?

...I don't know...

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Response to myohmy (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 06:44 PM

22. If Socialism is the answer, it must be to a pretty effing stupid question.

Like "What do you try if you're tired of eating, access to medical care and reliable electricity?".

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Response to Iron Condor (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 01:38 PM

2. Universities need less (none) victim studies classes and more history.

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Response to Iron Condor (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 01:59 PM

3. Despite history, they believe socialism can work - eventually

"We're sure to get it right THIS time."

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Response to Iron Condor (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 03:34 PM

4. what grinds my gears is that there are many MANY examples of failure when it comes

to communism/socialism but these kids keep wanting to try it

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 03:58 PM

7. The standard excuse is; "They just didn't have the right people in charge"

Or the alternative; "They just didn't do it right, we'll do it the right way"

We've heard it again and again, usually from some unwashed Grad student, desperate not to have to actually work for a living and leave the nest of Academia.

Both communism and socialism totally ignore the basic nature of humanity and appeal to the lowest motivations of mankind.

Most people want a chance to better themselves and better the opportunity for their children. That's what Capitalism appeals to.

Communism/Socialism appeals to the desire by some people to be cared for by a well meaning paternalistic state with minimum effort on their part.

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Response to Iron Condor (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 03:47 PM

5. It looks like socialism is popular with younger voters these days.



Socialism Increasingly Popular With Young U.S. Adults
Dec 2, 2019
A new Gallup poll has found that young adults' opinions of capitalism have deteriorated since 2010 in the United States. Currently, both capitalism and socialism are tied in popularity among Millienials/Gen Zers (aged 18 to 39). The gap is far more pronounced among Gen Xers in the 40-54 age bracket where 61 percent support capitalism and 39 percent favor socialism. Among Baby boomers/Traditionalists, supprt for capitalism and socialism stands at 68 and 32 percent respectively.
https://www.statista.com/chart/20157/support-for-capitalism-and-socialism-by-generation/

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 03:55 PM

6. Yes it is.....

...and they'd all best hope they grow out of it and wise up lest they force everyone else down an irreversible path.

Anyone enamored with socialism or communism should be forced to sit down and read all seven sections of The Gulag Archipelago by Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

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Response to Steelydamned (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 04:41 PM

8. I think that most of them

Have Canadian, Swedish and Danish-style social democracies in mind.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 04:49 PM

11. Perhaps....

...and yet, most of those are not really what they think they are in the first place and as such, they substitute what they wish for the actual reality. That's not to say we have a perfect system or that it could use some serious tweaking but, the "everything for free" crowd are deluded.

A simple perusal of a controversial subject on Twitter shows how quickly ones ideology can quickly devolve into a communistic form of punishment/re-education for anyone not toeing the progressive line.

And the Gulag Archipelago perfectly illustrates this as it progresses.

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Response to Steelydamned (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:13 PM

15. The Nordic Model

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Norway, and Sweden). This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining, with a high percentage of the workforce unionised, and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force). The Nordic model began to gain attention after World War II.

The Scandinavian countries were all monarchies, with Finland and Iceland becoming republics in the 20th century. Currently, the Nordic countries have been described as being highly democratic. Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries, they all have some common traits. These include support for a universalist welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility; a corporatist system involving a tripartite arrangement where representatives of labour and employers negotiate wages and labour market policy mediated by the government; and a commitment to private ownership (with some caveats) within a Free-Market economy.

Each of the Nordic countries has its own economic and social models, sometimes with large differences from its neighbors. As of 2018, all of the Nordic countries rank highly on the Inequality-adjusted HDI and the Global Peace Index. In 2019, all five of the Nordic countries ranked in the top 10 on the World Happiness Report.--Wikipedia

None of the Nordic social democracies has devolved into a totalitarian state over the last 75 years.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:15 PM

16. Still flogging that long dead horse.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:25 PM

17. Yes....

...I'm quite familiar with the "Nordic model" and can also find Wikipedia entries...but I cite them when I do.

I've also spent a good amount of time in Norway for work. Back then, I smoked and when I pulled out a pack of Marlboro Lights, the Norwegians about shit and they all wanted a cigarette. Due to the excessive taxation, most of them rolled their own and they were absolutely delighted to have some genuine American tobacco to smoke.

Seems a small thing but, it astounded me.

They also had green cheese in a tube like toothpaste.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:49 PM

19. The Nordic model is greatly subsidized by the U.S.

They are hugely subsidized by not having to spend practically any money on defense because the U.S. will come to their defense. Effectively the U.S. largely subsidizes Europe's social programs because of this relationship. Capitalism with a heavy taxation upon the working-class, not the corporate-class, is the rest of the way Europe pays for its social programs.

You folks here in the U.S. don't understand that these European countries tried what you're promoting here and it quickly didn't turn out well for them. So they switched to focusing more of their taxing on the working-class and largely eased taxing on the wealthy and businesses. Which is precisely the opposite of what you folks are trying to sell.

Also, by-the-way, what you folks are promoting isn't anything new. You're just giving something that's already been around for quite awhile a different name. Your so-called "democratic-socialism" is nothing more than just increasing LBJ's Great Society. Notice, it hasn't worked. All its done is created a larger dependent class.

Its very unfortunate that the leftists never learn.... They're just too hard headed...

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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 06:34 PM

21. Nice try!

Neither Sweden nor Finland are members of NATO so the U.S. does not subsidize their defense at all. The NATO requirement is that member nations spend 2% of GDP on defense by the year 2024. Norway currently spends 1.6%, Denmark spends 1.3% but they are raising that to 1.5% and Iceland spends less than 1% but Iceland is the size of Anaheim, California, 363,000 residents, so a drop in the bucket.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 06:46 PM

24. Neither had to be a member of NATO in order to benefit from the NATO defense strategy

and nuclear umbrella.

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 08:30 PM

27. You can say that about practically every nation on the planet.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 11:02 PM

35. Irrelevant due to

the fact, and it is indeed a fact, that if anyone attacked a European country they know it would be no different than if they attacked the United States itself. That is a fact. The effective subsidy I pointed out therefore is indeed a fact.

The higher taxation on the working-class and the lower taxation on the rich and corporate class I pointed out (which is opposite of what your side proposes), is also indeed a fact. The reason why they adopted that model is because after having tried what your side is proposing their economies were going down the tubes.

It is also a fact that what your side is proposing is nothing new and trying to call it by some different name (democratic socialism), doesn't change the fact that it is nothing more than increasing what is called LBJ's Great Society, which, has not worked other than to create a larger dependent class.

That's the reality whether or not you like hearing it..

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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 11:41 PM

37. Countries with the highest tax rates

Highest Income Tax for the Married
The countries with the highest average personal income taxes are different for families with two children. Only Denmark (25.3%) makes the top five in both this category and the single with no children category. Alongside Denmark, Turkey (25.8%), Finland (25.2%), The Netherlands (23.8%), and Norway (23.0%) also made it to the top five.1

1. Turkey
Turkey’s income tax rates range from 15% to 35%. Turkey levies income tax on commercial, agricultural, and professional activities; salaries and wages; income from immovable property; dividends, interest, and royalties; and other income, including capital gains. Deductions are available for medical and educational expenses, pension and private health insurance expenses, and certain donations.

2. Denmark
Because we covered Denmark’s tax rates in the previous section, here is some additional information about taxation in Denmark. Residents pay taxes on worldwide income, and spouses must file separately. Capital gains on a home sale are normally tax-exempt. Most taxpayers get a personal allowance worth DKK 44,000 (USD 6,700) and an employment allowance. Individuals pay property taxes, and anyone other than a spouse who receives an inheritance pays an inheritance tax. Consumers pay value-added taxes on most goods and services.

3. Finland
Finland taxes its income earners at progressive rates that top out at 31.75%. Individuals also pay social insurance contributions and a public broadcasting tax. Finland levies income tax on salaries, wages, pensions, and social benefits, as well as capital income from investments. Earned income is subject to national taxes, municipal taxes, and church taxes.

4. The Netherlands
The Netherlands categorizes all income as coming from one of three categories: 1) salaries, wages, benefits in kind, pensions, and homeownership income; 2) enterprise income from substantial business holdings; 3) savings and investment income. Each category has its own deductions and tax rates, and general tax credits apply to net income after the three categories are totaled. Income is taxed at progressive rates of 36.5% to 52%. Social security taxes are included in these rates. Married couples must file jointly unless they have filed for divorce, and some unmarried couples must also file jointly.

5. Norway
Norway taxes residents on salaries, dividends, interest, royalties, real property, capital income, and industrial, commercial, and agricultural profits. Gains from the sale of a primary residence aren’t taxable after one year of ownership. Workers, employers, and the state all contribute to social insurance that pays pension and medical benefits.

Residents receive personal deductions and an unlimited deduction for interest paid on debts. Child tax credits are only available for documented expenses for children younger than 12, subject to limits per child. Individuals who are younger than 34 who are saving to buy a house get income tax relief of 20% of the amount saved.
https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/countries-highest-income-taxes/

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 06:47 PM

25. None of the Nordic countries are Socialist.

That would explain why they haven't developed into totalitarian states.

Derp.

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 08:41 PM

28. Single payer health systems and free education K through college

Coupled with high progressive taxation, big government and an emphasis on labor unions is "democratic socialist" enough for me.
The Nordic Model of Social Democracy
https://www.amazon.com/Nordic-Model-Social-Democracy/dp/1349436690

For example: The Danish Health Care System
by Karsten Vrangbaek, University of Copenhagen
What is the role of government?
Universal access to health care is the underlying principle inscribed in Denmark’s Health Law, which sets out the government’s obligation to promote population health and prevent and treat illness, suffering, and functional limitations. Other core principles include ensuring: a high quality of care; easy and equal access to care; service integration; choice; transparency; access to information; and short waiting times for care. The law also assigns responsibility to regions and municipalities for delivering health services.
https://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/denmark/

Education in Sweden
The Swedish state school system comprises compulsory school and various types of voluntary schooling. Compulsory school includes nine years of compulsory basic school, school for the Saami people of Northern Sweden, special school and compulsory school for the mentally handicapped. Post-compulsory education is offered through 17 National Programmes providing qualifications that allow students to go on to higher education. Some of these programmes also include industrial work placements. The National Programmes of upper secondary education are offered at Gymnasia and lead to the award of the Slutbetyg Från Gymnasieskola.Tuition is free.Outside the upper secondary school system there are folk high schools (Folkhögskolan) which provide state-supported adult education lasting between one and three years of studies. There are no formal examinations. Post-secondary studies include advanced vocational training (Kvalificerad yrkesutbilding) which is intended to meet the labour market's needs for the skills required for modern production of goods and services. About one-third of the course period takes place at the workplace. As from January 2002, this form of training is a permanent part of the Swedish educational system but does not belong to the higher education sector. Admission is based on three-year upper secondary education or corresponding proficiency. The training is normally intended to correspond to two years of study and leads to a Certificate of Advanced Vocational Training (Kvalificerad yrkesexamen).

Higher education:
The Swedish system includes not only traditional university studies, but also Teacher Training, Health Care Training, Technical Training, etc. It is the responsibility of: the central government, regional authorities and private interests. All higher education institutions fall under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Education except for the University of Agricultural Sciences (Ministry of Agriculture). Higher education is divided into undergraduate studies (courses combined towards a first degree) and postgraduate studies and research.
https://www.euroeducation.net/prof/swedco.htm

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 08:55 PM

29. Keep moving those goalposts, slick. You'll never get it, but if it makes you "feelz" better

then go ahead.

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 09:36 PM

30. Ooo good answer, good answer!

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 09:46 PM

34. Yeah, it's a shame you'll never get it.

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 11:50 PM

38. Depends on your definition

For example: The Social Democrats currently are in power in Denmark.
"Mette Frederiksen is a Danish politician who has been Prime Minister of Denmark since June 2019 and Leader of the Social Democrats since June 2015. The second woman to hold either office, she is also the youngest Prime Minister in Danish history.
After a career as a trade unionist, Frederiksen was first elected to the Folketing in the 2001 general election, representing Copenhagen County. After the Social Democrats won the 2011 general election, she was appointed Minister of Employment by Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt. She was later promoted to become Minister of Justice in 2014. After the Social Democrats' narrow defeat in the 2015 general election, Thorning-Schmidt stood down and Frederiksen won the subsequent leadership election to replace her, becoming Leader of the Opposition.
Frederiksen led her party into the 2019 general election which resulted in the bloc of left-wing and centre-left parties (her Social Democrats, the Social Liberals, the Socialist People's Party, the Red–Green Alliance, the Faroese Social Democratic Party and Greenland's Siumut and Inuit Ataqatigiit) winning a majority in the Folketing. Frederiksen was subsequently commissioned by Queen Margrethe II to lead ultimately successful negotiations to form a new government and was sworn in as Prime Minister on 27 June."--Wikipedia

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 11:56 PM

39. And in Sweden, also the Social Democrats in charge

"Kjell Stefan Löfven is a Swedish politician serving as Prime Minister of Sweden since 2014 and Leader of the Social Democratic Party since 2012.
After leaving school and completing his mandatory military service in the Swedish Air Force, Löfven qualified as a welder and subsequently began a career as an active trade unionist. He rose to be elected as an ombudsman within the Swedish Metalworkers' Union (SMU) and was eventually elected as the first Chairman of IF Metall in January 2006, a major new trade union formed from a number of smaller unions, including the SMU, voting to merge.
Löfven led the Social Democrats into the 2014 election. Despite initial opinion poll leads, the party only gained a single seat, but due to the poor performance of the governing Moderate Party, who lost 23 seats, Löfven was able to form a minority coalition government with the Green Party. He was appointed Prime Minister of Sweden on 3 October. He secured a second term in the aftermath of the inconclusive 2018 election, which saw both main parties suffer losses; after a months-long impasse that set a new record for government formation, Löfven was able to secure abstentions from MPs belonging to the Centre Party, the Left Party and the Liberals, and was re-elected by the Riksdag in January 2019."--Wikipedia

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 12:02 AM

40. And in Iceland: The Left-Green Movement runs the government

Katrín Jakobsdóttir is an Icelandic politician serving as the 28th and current Prime Minister of Iceland since 2017. She is the member of the Althing for the Reykjavík North constituency since 2007. She became deputy chairperson of the Left-Green Movement in 2003 and has been their chairperson since 2013. Katrín was Iceland's Minister of Education, Science and Culture and of Nordic Co-operation from 2 February 2009 to 23 May 2013. She is Iceland's second female prime minister after Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 12:07 AM

41. And in Finland, another Social Democrat is Prime Minister

"Antti Juhani Rinne is a Finnish politician serving as Prime Minister of Finland since 2019 and Leader of the Social Democratic Party since 2014. He was Minister of Finance and Deputy Prime Minister of Finland between 2014 and 2015 and has been a Member of Parliament since 2015. In the 2019 parliamentary election, Rinne led the Social Democrats to victory and served as Speaker of Parliament before being appointed as Prime Minister on 6 June 2019.
A lawyer by profession, Rinne holds a Candidate of Law degree from the University of Helsinki. He served as chair of the Union of Private Sector Professionals (ERTO) from 2002 to 2005, the Union of Salaried Employees from 2005 to 2010, and Trade Union Pro from 2010 to 2014. Rinne was elected chairman of the Social Democratic Party of Finland (SDP) on 9 May 2014, defeating Jutta Urpilainen."--Wikipedia

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #38)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:21 AM

45. Your copy and paste word salad doesn't mean anything, Hive Mind.

None of the Nordic countries are Socialist.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:35 PM

18. No,they think free stuff really can happen.

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Response to Carl (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 09:38 PM

31. It can't

Somebody always pays. As soon as anyone gets their first paycheck and compares gross earnings to het earnings they'll know that.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:35 AM

43. Yet your parade of fools running for President promises the opposite.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 04:48 PM

10. They never...

Had a personal connection to it. Young people are seduced by the concept of :
"Free," when they are young. When they get a job or make a baby...that shit wears off.

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Response to GoldwatersSoul (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:03 PM

12. The Millennial/Generation Z cohort goes from age 18 to age 39

There are tens of millions of people between 18 & 39 who are gainfully employed.

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 05:08 PM

14. And as they age...

They are moving away from it.

Gen Z are 22 and younger and are said to be swinging back to the right.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2017/08/11/why-democrats-should-be-losing-sleep-over-generation-z/

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 06:45 PM

23. Until they get a job and start paying their own damn bills.

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 09:39 PM

32. Ain't that the truth!

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Response to jh4freedom (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:22 AM

46. Which makes your premise a lie.

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Response to Iron Condor (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 08:24 PM

26. It insults the United States of America to suggest the country is anywhere close to that.

Our country does not deserve to be thought of that way by anyone.

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Response to Iron Condor (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 11:37 PM

36. Same could be said for Republicanism and Communism

Or Confucianism and Communism.

Righty likes to conflate the two, but socialist and communist philosophies are very different and trying to tie the benevolence of socialism with the evils of communism is why True Americans don't take Righty seriously.

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Response to Trumplethinskin (Reply #36)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 04:36 AM

44. "benevolence of socialism"




Socialism can't exist unless at the point of a sword.
Learn some basic history.

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