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Mon Mar 9, 2015, 08:53 AM

DOJ to Ferguson: Adopt Strategy That Killed Trayvon

There are many flaws with the Department of Justice’s report on policing in Ferguson, Missouri. The most glaring is the report’s use of statistics, but the most egregious, as shall be seen, is the strategy the DOJ recommends to address statistical disparities.

Says the report: “From 2012 to 2014, 85% of people subject to vehicle stops by Ferguson police were African-American; 90% of those who received citations were black; and 93% of people arrested were black. This while 67% of the Ferguson population is black.”

The population of Ferguson was 67 percent black in 2010. If the numbers continued to trend as they had from 2000 to 2010, the city would have been about 73 percent black when Michael Brown was shot in 2014, but that is not the real issue.

In transitional areas like Ferguson, younger white people with children are the first to move. Older families tend to hang on. It is altogether likely that the black percentage in the high-crime cohort of young men aged fifteen to twenty-nine would have been 80 percent or more...............................................

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/03/doj_to_ferguson_adopt_strategy_that_killed_trayvon.html#ixzz3TtOMDG00

There, now we have some facts to discuss.

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Arrow 18 replies Author Time Post
Reply DOJ to Ferguson: Adopt Strategy That Killed Trayvon (Original post)
rahtruelies Mar 2015 OP
Smoke Mar 2015 #1
graham4anything4HC45 Mar 2015 #2
Tin Ear Mar 2015 #3
rahtruelies Mar 2015 #5
graham4anything4HC45 Mar 2015 #6
rahtruelies Mar 2015 #4
graham4anything4HC45 Mar 2015 #9
ol geezer Mar 2015 #10
kevlar Mar 2015 #13
Qukid Mar 2015 #15
.30M1 Mar 2015 #8
eddiepina Mar 2015 #17
nolens volens Mar 2015 #7
Slayer Mar 2015 #11
nolens volens Mar 2015 #12
Slayer Mar 2015 #14
nolens volens Mar 2015 #16
Slayer Mar 2015 #18

Response to rahtruelies (Original post)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:01 AM

1. Adopt Strategy That Killed Trayvon

Attack people that have guns?

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Response to rahtruelies (Original post)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:10 AM

2. The Police Department should be made up of citizens of each town in same percentage

as the citizens of the town.

When the cops are what they are, which is what it is, they don't care about the neighborhood or what they leave when they go to their tonied towns after their shifts.

The above article is 100% incorrect. In all towns, kids leave and never want to come back.
Til they do come back later in life. Because it is natural a kid wants to leave and stake out their own claims in life and not be clones of their parents

Of course, those with tonied lives to begin with, those born to the rich with silver spoons in their mouths,
leeching off their parents name, will be better able to move out. Those who have been harassed, beaten,
abused end up being forced though no fault of their own, to remain.

Which is why all schools should be public from start to finish across America, and secret socieites and fraternities not be allowed, which give people an edge over those with out being born to someone in the past in a secret society or fraternity.

It takes a community to make things work, and having cops not part of the community ruins any chance at anything from day one. No skin off their backs as the cliche' goes.

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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:17 AM

3. quotas right graham?

Affirmative action but with hard numeric requirements.

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Response to Tin Ear (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:20 AM

5. and re-education camps

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Response to Tin Ear (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:24 AM

6. No. Just a little common sense. And have the police be friends with the town

Trust has to be earned by the townfolk.
Abuse makes it very hard to trust.
Hundreds of years of abuse are almost impossible to overcome

If a cop lives next door to the person they might have to shoot, then they might think twice.
If the person living next to the cop sees a friend, they might react different

A cop thinking of a person as a video game bad guy and shooting them and not feeling any emotion whatsoever
or having the rush like they were shooting some prey, is going to shoot first ask later.

A stake in the community is win/win for all

Unless the fix is in. Obviously, making as many people felons to take away their voting rights and bilking them illiegally in fees and taxes of the fines was what was wanted.
less voters means the system is never changed. Like back in the old days.

and in Ferguson, as the Official report (and one has to respect an official report like a jury verdict), it
showed it was what it was.

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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:18 AM

4. Hmmmmmm, you do KNOW........

that the awful/mean/icky city gov of ferguson is democrat just like you! LMAO

BTW, your ideas about ideal politics didn't work in the 1930's ukraine and its doubtful you ever ever get a chance to try them here. barry is as close as we are ever gonna come to the reign of Joe Steel.

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Response to rahtruelies (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:55 AM

9. I believe California is having community outreach with cops.

Cops are not republican or democratic.
Cops are their own out of control entity, shoot first, ask questions later, and cops don't follow any rules but their own 96 hour rule and the blue wall of silence. A regular person doesn't have that right. Neither do local politicians.


A civilian review board made up of citizens from the town should try every single case where force is used in the town. 100% of every town in America. And it should be one federal system.

I hope all the cops in Ferguson quit when the civilian review board is in place.

Time for cops to stop treating the town folks as beneath them and as the enemy.

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Response to rahtruelies (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:57 AM

10. That part of the state is heavily Republication.

So why would Ferguson be Democratic? St Louis is heavily Republican. Their crime rate/shooting crimes are the highest in the state too.
The only part of the state that is Democratic/Liberal is around the Kansas City area.

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Response to ol geezer (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 12:16 PM

13. No it isn't.

Both the City of St Louis and the County of St Louis, in which Ferguson is located, are BLUE Areas.

As well as the KC area and Boone county which includes Columbia.



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Response to ol geezer (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 12:28 PM

15. That is utter bullshit.

It's blue here in St. Louis City and County. North County (where Ferguson is) is the bluest part of the county.

I don't know what your source is, but you need to shit-can it.

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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:45 AM

8. The article tells a lot of truth.

Figures you wouldn't like it.

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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 01:51 PM

17. I do not think you have any idea how hard it is

to properly hire police officers. That said, I agree that police are much more effective when they mirror the people they serve. Implementing concrete demographic hiring numbers is simply not practical.

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Response to rahtruelies (Original post)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:40 AM

7. DOJ

used the state of Missouri's data supplied by Ferguson PD. There is a trend throughout the state of Missouri to fill in financing gaps with fees for minor offenses. The data that Missouri collects reflects that.

Hidden in that data there was an interesting bit of information that clearly indicated searches of whites yielded more illegal contraband than searches of blacks. So the data would suggest that white with a 1 in 3 contraband rate were more likely to be criminals than were blacks where the data indicates only 1 in 5 were holding illegal contraband when searched after a stop.

The state of Missouri has decided it has a statewide problem with racial profiling and passed the law to collect this data 15 years ago and has been collecting it and categorizing the data since that time. The data suggests that statewide there is an issue with racial profiling as all other races are stopped at less than half their rate in the population while blacks are stopped statewide 1.57 times as often as their presence in the population. The other races are stopped at rates of about .4 to .48 of their percentage in the population.

The state of Missouri has determined there is enough disparity to alter local training efforts, I am comfortable with a state determining its own culpability with their statewide policing efforts. That DOJ has suggested the state data indicates an issue is something that the State had already determined.

Additionally no one has addressed the the perjurers on the force, one of whom is now on the city council. They've been involved in policing for the last five years after their perjury was revealed. It indicates a systemic acceptance of a lowered standard of quality for their officers. The lower training levels and poor police work as indicative of the low quality of officers. Liars aren't prosecuted because white judges make claims in open court that perjury by a police officer in filing false charges is a minor perjury and not worth pursuing. That's an interesting perspective for someone carrying a gun and a badge and charged with upholding the law.

Perhaps for you it's an acceptable methodology but for some of us it at least raises questions regarding the integrity of the force.

Wilson's good shoot of Brown doesn't alter the reality of an ethically challenged police department with liars on the force and those in command who leave the liars unpunished.

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Response to nolens volens (Reply #7)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 10:48 AM

11. How far would those numbers have to swing before

 

The average liberal would admit it actually may be a cultural problem rather than a racial one I wonder? Could that number ever be achieved? If these areas were left completely un-policed would the murder rate drop?

If you want less ambiguity in your numbers, use murder rates, far less bias can be applied there.

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Response to Slayer (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 12:14 PM

12. Liberals

I can't speak for liberals, but there is definitely a cultural issue as well. This is not a one note song, it's a complex multi-layered issue that needs to be addressed without all the pre-conceptions from both sides using data and documents of record which is how I believe the state was trying to address some of this with the law fifteen years ago that mandated collection of data.

It is also an issue that doesn't resolve in a few years it's a generational time frame. Ferguson's police force is problematic for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with Officer Wilson or Michael Brown. Those problems existed in a vacuum before the Brown shooting, perhaps the only good coming from that shooting and the subsequent riots will be placing the issue in front of the American people. We'll see if it has any traction long term. I suspect it won't.

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Response to nolens volens (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 12:28 PM

14. As expected,

 

Well reasoned and well well stated. And I agree. I didn't mean to insinuate you were a liberal. We had that discussion months ago, I know better. They (liberals), from where I sit, seem to be the blockage in the pipe so to speak. You can not have an honest conversation on the subject of crime stats, race and remedies, when one side won't budge off of the "your just a racist" meme for more than a nano second.

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Response to Slayer (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 9, 2015, 01:01 PM

16. Blockage

I think because a lot of people are really uncomfortable talking about this, and they view it through the perspective of their own education and historical upbringing.

These issues in many cases start with numbers, numbers are great because they really don't lie. What the numbers mean can be subject to debate but the numbers are pretty much the numbers.

The honest assessment is hard it requires one to review the data and state for the record that there has been some sort of failure. Did the system designed to protect people end up failing them with respect to education and opportunity? Or did cultural issues fail to accept the full benefit of the system? Or far more likely is there a combined cultural and systemic failure that needs to be addressed.

Money alone doesn't fix that, but a combination of money and reform of the system will be required. The word reform is frightening because many believe that to mean a way to deny something and often reform has been nothing more than denial of funding and opportunity disguised as fiscal responsibility.

This issue won't go away with hashtag campaigns or protests...so the real question is whether or not we the people care enough to have this uncomfortable conversation and see where it leads us, so far the answer is no we don't want to have the conversation because pretending it's all good is easier and far more palatable.

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Response to nolens volens (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:30 AM

18. Manipulating numbers has been raised to a fine art.

 

I can't really remember when I became aware of statistical manipulation, I think it was back in the late 80's when hearing some fact/figure being spewed by Rush Limbaugh. Meaningful data has been a large part of my life and it didn't take too long to see how that system works.

With that being said, a component of the above system includes misdirection. I don't know where society begins to unravel the ball of twine, but I know where it starts with me. With me it starts by not allowing others to change definitions to suit their needs. If you can't agree on what the data truly represents, it relagates the likelihood of an informed decision to the laugh o' meter category.

If there is a systematic breakdown it should be easy to identify, correction of, well that's another can of worms. It is however, a place where an honest debate can begin.

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