Politicspoliticsgunrights

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:28 PM

 

If the NRA doesn't show reason, the American people will take it all away.

Things seem to take a long time to change, but when they change, they change very fast.

Consider gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and a black President before you say that it can't happen here. Consider Australia, which had a wide open gun culture completely crushed by one mass shooting.

The NRA idea that anyone should have any gun at any time anywhere, that the government has no right to know who has what guns or has any authority to pass safe storage requirements, that guns should be untraceable, that an average Joe or Jane should be able to carry concealed without any training whatsoever, that guns need not be safety or drop tested, that gun manufacturers are protected against unsafe product lawsuits, etc. is not realistic in today's world.

This no-compromise position means that when change comes, and it will come, gun enthusiasts will have no control over it.

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Reply If the NRA doesn't show reason, the American people will take it all away. (Original post)
JoeHill Jun 2016 OP
Da Mannn Jun 2016 #1
JoeHill Jun 2016 #2
mrwordsworth Jun 2016 #8
foia Jun 2016 #15
JoeHill Jun 2016 #24
His Daughter Jun 2016 #32
JoeHill Jun 2016 #45
batcat Jun 2016 #64
Smoke Jun 2016 #96
batcat Jun 2016 #130
FrankHerbert Jun 2016 #74
JoeHill Jun 2016 #79
black rifles Jun 2016 #149
TexMex Jun 2016 #3
JoeHill Jun 2016 #5
His Daughter Jun 2016 #33
JoeHill Jun 2016 #50
Hades Jun 2016 #44
JoeHill Jun 2016 #46
pavulon-lives Jun 2016 #60
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #83
JoeHill Jun 2016 #84
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #85
JoeHill Jun 2016 #87
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #91
JoeHill Jun 2016 #93
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #94
JoeHill Jun 2016 #100
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #105
_eek Jun 2016 #98
JoeHill Jun 2016 #99
_eek Jun 2016 #104
JoeHill Jun 2016 #106
_eek Jun 2016 #108
JoeHill Jun 2016 #110
_eek Jun 2016 #111
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #118
JoeHill Jun 2016 #141
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #142
Duke Lacrosse Jun 2016 #120
island4diver Jun 2016 #135
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #143
black rifles Jun 2016 #150
GiovanniJones Jun 2016 #92
TexMex Jun 2016 #47
Dixie Jun 2016 #77
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #97
island4diver Jun 2016 #134
_eek Jun 2016 #4
JoeHill Jun 2016 #10
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #13
_eek Jun 2016 #17
JoeHill Jun 2016 #29
_eek Jun 2016 #35
JoeHill Jun 2016 #86
_eek Jun 2016 #88
JoeHill Jun 2016 #102
His Daughter Jun 2016 #40
JoeHill Jun 2016 #52
smoke check Jun 2016 #136
JoeHill Jun 2016 #140
smoke check Jun 2016 #144
JoeHill Jun 2016 #147
Cave Dweller Jun 2016 #72
JoeHill Jun 2016 #80
fncceo Jun 2016 #6
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #7
Arne Oker Jun 2016 #11
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #20
JoeHill Jun 2016 #14
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #18
foia Jun 2016 #9
Spitfire Jun 2016 #12
JoeHill Jun 2016 #16
Spitfire Jun 2016 #19
JoeHill Jun 2016 #26
_eek Jun 2016 #31
JoeHill Jun 2016 #36
_eek Jun 2016 #51
Doctor_R Jun 2016 #34
JoeHill Jun 2016 #37
Doctor_R Jun 2016 #43
JoeHill Jun 2016 #53
Doctor_R Jun 2016 #54
brew9876 Jun 2016 #38
Smoke Jun 2016 #66
Immacolata Jun 2016 #103
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #21
_eek Jun 2016 #22
brew9876 Jun 2016 #25
Hades Jun 2016 #48
Jack Burton Jun 2016 #123
brew9876 Jun 2016 #23
Paradigm Jun 2016 #27
GoodCraic Jun 2016 #28
JoeHill Jun 2016 #42
GoodCraic Jun 2016 #119
kevlar Jun 2016 #30
JoeHill Jun 2016 #41
762Justice Jun 2016 #39
pavulon-lives Jun 2016 #49
goodwords Jun 2016 #55
JoeHill Jun 2016 #56
goodwords Jun 2016 #58
JoeHill Jun 2016 #59
goodwords Jun 2016 #61
JoeHill Jun 2016 #81
goodwords Jun 2016 #129
JoeHill Jun 2016 #139
MercATC Jun 2016 #57
Lifelong Jun 2016 #62
Da Mannn Jun 2016 #63
Lifelong Jun 2016 #65
Smoke Jun 2016 #67
Lifelong Jun 2016 #68
Smoke Jun 2016 #75
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #76
smoke check Jun 2016 #138
Dukota01 Jun 2016 #69
Doctor_R Jun 2016 #70
Lifelong Jun 2016 #71
Doctor_R Jun 2016 #73
700WinMag Jun 2016 #78
JoeHill Jun 2016 #82
_eek Jun 2016 #89
JoeHill Jun 2016 #90
_eek Jun 2016 #95
JoeHill Jun 2016 #101
_eek Jun 2016 #107
JoeHill Jun 2016 #109
_eek Jun 2016 #112
JoeHill Jun 2016 #114
_eek Jun 2016 #115
JoeHill Jun 2016 #116
_eek Jun 2016 #117
762Justice Jun 2016 #145
JoeHill Jun 2016 #146
700WinMag Jun 2016 #113
soosin60 Jun 2016 #121
TexMex Jun 2016 #122
soosin60 Jun 2016 #124
_eek Jun 2016 #125
soosin60 Jun 2016 #127
_eek Jun 2016 #128
Doctor_R Jun 2016 #132
soosin60 Jun 2016 #137
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #126
700WinMag Jun 2016 #148
Valishin Jun 2016 #131
island4diver Jun 2016 #133

Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:30 PM

1. They really are coming for your guns

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:31 PM

2. They will be if we continue to have more mass shootings than there are days in the year.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:37 PM

8. I, members of this forum and millions across the country

 

Will not stand for a political party punishing law abiding citizens for the criminal acts of violence they helped foster. We will vote anyone out of office that sides with the party of constitutional rights they deem necessary.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:39 PM

15. In case you haven't noticed, gun ownership increases after incidents such as this.

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Response to foia (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:45 PM

24. The number of guns bought increases . . . but gun ownership continues to decline.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:57 PM

32. You need better sourcing than that

My experience is that there are a growing number of new gun owners, a surprising amount are women. Every soldier I know have them too. Based on the number of NICS events it looks like the number of firearms in civilian hands will double under the Obama administration. Those are not all repeat buyers.

The VPC has little resources to do studies that stand up to any scrutiny and may get stuck with some legal bills.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:07 PM

45. You have no sourcing.

 

So don't throw shade on my actual sourcing unless you have quantifiable evidence.

Also, I provided TWO sources . . . the second is http://www.norc.org/PDFs/GSS%20Reports/GSS_Trends%20in%20Gun%20Ownership_US_1972-2014.pdf

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:01 PM

64. Did you ever consider that when someone gets a call from a person ...

who claims to be taking a poll and gets asked if he owns gun he may just lie?

I took an informal survey of the shooters I know several years ago and all said that they would never tell some fool on a phone or at their door if they owned firearms. The most common response I got was. "It's none of their damn business."

I might tell the truth as I know that the government already knows I have firearms. It's not hard even for our FBI to figure that out as I have a concealed weapons permit.

Gun stores state that the sale of firearms to new owners has increased in recent years. Of course since our wonderfully honest media is pushing the propaganda that the number of gun owners are decreasing you usually only read about this at the local level.

FEBRUARY 6, 2016 3:24 PM
As gun sales increase, industry tries to keep up with demand (+video)

***snip***

New customers

So who’s buying all the guns?

While there are, no doubt, current gun owners who are simply stocking up, multiple dealers – Relihan included – pointed to two groups that have stood out of late: women and first-time gun owners.

Lee’s Weaponry owner Jeffrey Mathenia said he gets more women than men at his store on East 13th Street.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article58874283.html#storylink=cpy

Of course you can and will believe whatever you wish and that's perfectly fine with me.

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Response to batcat (Reply #64)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:58 AM

96. Another point worth noting

In several states private sales without background checks are still legal. Before they became illegal in Colorado I knew several people who only purchased guns in private sales specifically because they didn't want to be in the database.

I suspect that there are a lot more gun owners in this country than the government knows about.

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Response to Smoke (Reply #96)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:30 PM

130. I also know several gun owners who only buy from private owners. ...

No paperwork and not in the database.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #24)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 11:28 PM

74. the 'VPC' is yet another progressive

website aligned with huffington post.

Josh Sugarmann is biased and his sole agenda is getting rid of firearms. of any kind.

YES, they DO want to take your guns.

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Response to FrankHerbert (Reply #74)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:21 AM

79. What about the other source?

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #24)

Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:15 AM

149. That meme is probably the silliest one

 

the left keeps spewing...LMAO

Keep telling yourself that, you may end up believing it.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:32 PM

3. Good luck amending the 2nd

 

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Response to TexMex (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:33 PM

5. Good luck passing that gay marriage bill . . .

 



Hey, wait a minute . . .

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:58 PM

33. We are still waiting on the ERA

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #33)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:12 PM

50. The ERA was BS from day one.

 

The existing Constitutional framework has plenty of protections for equal rights--all the courts had to do was rule the way they always should have.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:06 PM

44. Two things:

1) good luck coming door to door. Please try it.

2) just like weed, states could take a page out of the left's playbook and pass state legislation ignoring a federal ban for their state and make "assault weapons" legal again straight after any federal ban. Same thing the left is doing ignoring federal drug laws in states that have legalized it.

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Response to Hades (Reply #44)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:11 PM

46. Who said "door to door?" If you can't take your guns out of your house,

 

it's going to put rather a crimp in your style.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #46)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:37 PM

60. Prohibition is lost on you people

lots of people got plenty drunk, even though pearl clutchers like you made it illegal. Drunk at home, drunk at a bar, and tax free to boot.

I bet if you people bet froggy the price for a 3pin lower goes from 30,000 to about $600.

Like jaywalking and smoking weed, no one gives a fuck if you take the law to far. plus you people have no balls to enforce it.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #46)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:29 AM

83. The right to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed

 

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #83)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:33 AM

84. It can be infringed all the time. Try taking a concealed Glock on to the floor of CONgress.

 

They'll infringe you plenty.

Conservative hypocrites.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #84)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:41 AM

85. Maybe that's why Congress is so out of touch. However, you're trying to turn a

 

defined, particular instance into a general prohibition. That's like arguing felons can't vote so you'll just abolish elections altogether.

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #85)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:46 AM

87. A complete ban on all guns is not likely either. But banning "offensive" weapons

 

commonly used in mass shootings is becoming more likely all the time--especially since the KABR folks absolutely refuse to see reason for any kind of compromise.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #87)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:05 AM

91. The only reason mass shooters use semi-autos is because they are ignorant.

 

The choice of professionals who have to deal with large groups in confined space, i.e. guards dealing with rioting prisoners, is a shotgun with shot.

Go ahead and push the AWB and you'll inadvertently move the killers into more effective methods.

But then you'll cry for a shotgun ban and when the killers move to handguns you'll cry about that and then when the killers are still killing you'll wonder why it doesn't stop but you won't accept responsibility for your failures.

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #91)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:10 AM

93. That's absolutely absurd. Shotguns don't have the magazine capacity

 

to kill 49 people in minutes. You can get special mag extenders that hold some 22 rounds, but they're far from common.

Also at 30 yards, the lethality is going to drop off considerably.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #93)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:19 AM

94. When the cops take 17 to 180 mins to act a killer has all the time they need.

 

You forget the reason why shotguns are the best choice for close quarters is the spread. One shot hits an entire area and 30 yards is immaterial inside a school, office building or nightclub.

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #94)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:14 PM

100. You remember when Dick Cheney got drunk and shot his pal in the face with a shotgun?

 

Wonder what would happen with a Sig Sauer MCX.

Also, the spread of even birdshot at 25 yards is barely bigger than a foot in diameter . . . see

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #100)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:44 PM

105. You're flailing and failing.

 

You're attempting to override the experience and expertise of Dept. of Corrections and the military involved in detainee operations.

By the way - 1 foot is 54 times the diameter of .223, which in turn is over 500 times the area of a .223 round. So, one shotgun blast covers 500 times the area of a single 223 round.

As I have been saying this entire time.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #93)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:08 PM

98. Saiga and VEPR 12 say you are wrong....about capacity and availability.

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Response to _eek (Reply #98)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:09 PM

99. Yes, and that is obscene. In a rational society, that will be illegal.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #99)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:42 PM

104. So, you ARE going after more than just AR style weapons.

Wherever will your little crusade end..

Whak-a-mole. We will always defeat the ignorant fear merchants. from bullet buttons to 3d printers and 80% lowers we continue to legally beat all your attempts to disarm us.

Tick tock, bodies pile up while you dither on and on. They are all your doing.

Saw this post today.. I thought of you..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027916489

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Response to _eek (Reply #104)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:45 PM

106. I didn't post that at DU, but it certainly applies to you, doesn't it.

 

Especially the last two words of the title.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #106)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:49 PM

108. Damn, that's all you have..

And quite gutless as well. no surprise..

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Response to _eek (Reply #104)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:52 PM

110. No pistol needs more than 13 rounds. No rifle or shotgun needs more than 10 . . .

 

for civilians.

If you need more than that to defend yourself, you're just a bad shot.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #110)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:58 PM

111. I am an above average shot..

And I want more than the limits you offer...

I tend to make people angry with my potent truth and facts, who knows when a snively and cowardly "fuck you" could escalate.

Good thing we aren't Marxists with this wants vs needs thing aint it Joe Hill. You Wobblies and your demands, should have read more Mao, he knew where power emanated.





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Response to JoeHill (Reply #110)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:00 PM

118. Nobody ever came out of a gunfight complaining of too many bullets.

 

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #118)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:20 PM

141. The families of those killed in Orlando are . . .

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #141)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:24 PM

142. The problem was a lack of bullets aimed at the killer.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #110)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:11 PM

120. Too much ammo is ALWAYS better than not enough.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #110)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:59 PM

135. ignorant people have no business telling those who are knowledgeable

what we "need". Not only is it condescending and elitist, it is authoritarian.

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Response to island4diver (Reply #135)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:24 PM

143. He's OK with that.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #99)

Thu Jun 16, 2016, 09:22 AM

150. Obcenity is in the eye of the beholder

 

You would wet your panties if you strolled into my gun room. What makes that "obcene" in your view? I bet it's because it's black!

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #46)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:07 AM

92. Why? I only have them in case someone breaks in.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:11 PM

47. thanks!

 

It had my full support😜

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:33 AM

77. Apples & Oranges

The gay marriage bill argued gays have equal "Rights" as pointed out in the equal protection of the law clause and any argument arguing amending the 2nd amendment is an argument to restrict "Rights".

These are two opposite arguments. One argues for recognizing rights while the other argues for infringing upon rights.

-------

"Shall Not Be Infringed"




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Response to JoeHill (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:07 PM

97. Trading consent of the governed for judicial oligarchy is one of the reasons

 

the 2A was written.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:55 PM

134. there never was a bill legalizing gay marriage on the federal level

nor should there have ever been. Marriage is not a federal issue. Clinton's DOMA violated the tenth amendment and should have been struck down as such.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:33 PM

4. They know where I am at.

So let's get this party started, hope you remember your stacking procedures Joe..

Oh, wait you'll have other people, people like me, do your grabbing?

I will not do your dirty work for you, nor will the vast majority of the door kickers you and the sheep are relying on to do this.

Lemme know how that works out for ya..

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Response to _eek (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:37 PM

10. I don't want any grabbing done.

 

I want a reasonable discussion and incremental change.

As for your contention that the military and law enforcement will rise up in revolt, it's never happened before. When the DI says shit, the recruits say, sir, what color, sir?

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:39 PM

13. Yeah, well, my fellow NCOs and all the officers I know are pro-RKBA. So...

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:41 PM

17. I have seen unlawful orders refused more than once.

And in the heat of combat.

We are not mindless puppets.

And guess what, the government will probably try to go PMC for this one...

Incremental change, yeah slow unbending disarmament. NO more compromise with those who will steal freedoms in the name of safety.. Sheep, bleeting that's all I hear from appeasers.

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Response to _eek (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:56 PM

29. Kansas just passed "freedom carry" where any idiot can buy a gun and carry it concealed.

 

Then a friend of mine got shot in the calf when exactly such an idiot went to a high school graduation with a POS plastic .380 kel-tec in his cowboy boot.

Really fucked her up.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/2-hurt-in-shooting-at-high-school-graduation-in-kansas/

The 2nd Amendment doesn't mean any dumbass can carry any gun anytime with zero training. That's not a right--that's fucking suicide.

This is what's happening because of the NRA's irrational and uncompromising positions. There's going to be a backlash.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:59 PM

35. CSB

Charge the negligent fool.

Rights have responsibilities, he didn't meet his obligation as an American to exercise his right.

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Response to _eek (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:42 AM

86. A lawsuit won't take the mushroomed .308 out of the woman's leg.

 

It's too dangerous to remove it.

More guns does not equal less crime. It equals more gun accidents, especially when you don't even need training to carry concealed.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #86)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:49 AM

88. I said charge not sue. go on, go back and read it.

I am a huge proponent of training, and not just 6 hours in a class learning the law, and punching holes in paper at 15 yards.
I am constantly pushing everyone I know to get extensive and dynamic, realistic training, and proper storage as well.
Rights carry responsibilities, two of the biggest being keep it secure, and know how to use it.


Too bad incrementalists can't be trusted not to use those to tenets as a punitive measure. Hoplophobes and thier incrementalism are just as much to blame for the current state of violence in America as the NRAs intransigence.

Enjoy the bloodshed, it's on your hands too.

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Response to _eek (Reply #88)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:38 PM

102. He is getting charged. That won't take the slug out of her calf either.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:02 PM

40. Backlash? I see more states liberalizing their gun laws, not more restricitions

I have to agree that training is almost imperative, especially for concealed carry. However, if its a right, you cannot require it.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #40)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:15 PM

52. It's not a right . . . and the 9th circuit court just ruled that it isn't a protected right

 

under the 2nd amendment.

And that's how it starts . . . one side goes too damn far and the backlash comes.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #52)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:04 PM

136. An appeal to the single most overturned court in the country.

It's called the ninth circus for a reason.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #136)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:19 PM

140. You gun huggers keep saying that. Is EVERY decision overturned?

 

Most? Some?

It's going to be hard to overturn it now that Scalia is very dead.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #140)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:31 PM

144. It can be appealed after President Trump nominates a replacement.

You do know the djinn is out of the bottle, right? You can't stop people from making and owning guns and even their own ammunition.

As others have said, you don't have the courage to stack up against a door.

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Response to smoke check (Reply #144)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:45 PM

147. Adam Lanza couldn't make his own gun. Sheesh. You're just

 

getting kinda deranged now.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #29)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:55 PM

72. Guy was an idiot

bet there were 20 other pistols there that did not go off.

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Response to Cave Dweller (Reply #72)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:22 AM

80. Yes, he was an idiot. And thanks to the NRA, he was an armed and dangerous idiot.

 

That's my point.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:33 PM

6. Well see ....

... you SAY that.

.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:34 PM

7. Who's gonna do it? You?

 

Mandatory gun registration laws in blue NY and VT have about a 10% compliance rate. Magazines larger than 10 rounds are bought and sold regularly in CO. Amid all this the cops are showing no enthusiasm for your bullshit laws.

Consider your bluff called.

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:37 PM

11. All the cops?

Like Bill Bratton? America's police chief?

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:42 PM

20. If you think he can manage all by himself. Please, proceed.

 

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:39 PM

14. So you admit that the NRA claim of "just enforce the laws we have" is

 

a steaming pile of donkey dung?

Glad to hear you're finally honest about it.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:42 PM

18. So you admit the RKBA'ers claim that grabbers are just authoritarian

 

pissants with god complexes and no respect for individuals correct?

Glad to hear you're finally honest about it.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:37 PM

9. The NRA can't vote

But plenty of gun owners and those who don't own guns but still care about the 2A do vote.

Take me for example. I am a non-NRA member. I'm am not a one issue voter but the 2A is pretty high on my list of priorities.

There have been times in my life where I didn't shoot or hunt much but I still cared about my 2A rights.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:37 PM

12. The 2A was put in place to

PREVENT the government from overrunning its britches - not for hunting!

The moment the 2A is in jeopardy is the moment you will see a BIG BIG change in America - and I don't think you will like it one little bit!!!

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Response to Spitfire (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:40 PM

16. You might want to look out your window because the 2nd amendment is in danger right now.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:42 PM

19. It isn't in jepardy out my window -

And never will be!

ETA: I just noticed - The Rolling friggen Stones????

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Response to Spitfire (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:50 PM

26. The article was written by a Constitutional Law professor . . .

 

Laugh it up, funny boy.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:57 PM

31. Hope he knows the law better than your sources knew ballistics

Seems to me that there are Con Law professors on both sides..
What has changed in the Constitution in 3 days that makes him so much more able than he was on Saturday?

I'll see your sensationalist rag writer and raise you an Alan Gura.

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Response to _eek (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:00 PM

36. Here's another expert who needs your correction . . .

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:13 PM

51. When you read the article, feel free to show where he and I are differing

..Again cavitation is not hydro-static shock..

Odd, he was talking about survivors, score of them, in his Combat Lifesaver Course(intermediate low level field first aid for the civilians out there) SURVIVORS.. argues against your lethality argument

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:58 PM

34. Your

president is supposed to be a constitutional law professor.

SCOTUS has disagreed.

More than once.

Some professor.

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Response to Doctor_R (Reply #34)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:01 PM

37. SCOTUS changes. Scalia is dead. nt

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #37)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:03 PM

43. 9 - 0

more than once.

Even your fellow libs agreed he overstepped his authority.

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Response to Doctor_R (Reply #43)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:17 PM

53. Read it and weep . . .

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/09/ninth_circuit_rules_no_constitutional_right_to_concealed_carry_of_firearms.html

On Thursday, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals concluded that the Constitution does not grant citizens the right to carry concealed firearms outside the home. The decision, Peruta v. San Diego, is likely to be the last word on this litigation: It was issued en banc, meaning the plaintiffs’ only remaining hope is a Hail Mary appeal to the Supreme Court, which makes a habit of avoiding gun cases these days. Even if the justices did take the case, it’s difficult to see how they could justify reversing Thursday’s ruling: The majority’s 41-page decision lays out a compelling, comprehensive analysis that that even fervid defenders of the right to bear arms should have trouble dismissing.

The Second Amendment’s predecessor, the 1689 English Bill of Rights, “protected the rights of Protestants to have arms”—but “flatly prohibited” concealed carry. Before the Civil War, every single state to address the question of concealed carry allowed prohibitions against concealed weapons under the Second Amendment or its state analogue. (Technically, exactly one state court had invalidated a concealed carry ban, but the decision was later overturned.)

In the decades following the Civil War and the ratification of the 14th Amendment—which applied much of the Bill of Rights to the states—this consensus grew. A number of states explicitly granted legislatures the authority to outlaw concealed carry, which legislatures quickly did. Every state court that heard challenges to these bans ruled the same way, upholding the constitutionality of concealed carry prohibitions. In 1897, the Supreme Court of the United States even asserted that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms is not infringed by laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons.”

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #53)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:19 PM

54. The 9th

circus?

Read it and weep:

NO.



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Response to JoeHill (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:01 PM

38. You mean like obama?

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:21 PM

66. That steaming pile of Monkey shit

Was nothing more than an Op-ed piece

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Response to Spitfire (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:41 PM

103. Rollingstone is a newspaper, darling.

And the article was written, as Joe says, by a Constitutional law professor. Your smiley reaction is just dumb.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:43 PM

21. Is that fake rape Rolling Stone?

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:43 PM

22. The paper of record for libs and terrorist fan girls..

Not worried a bit. Bleeting of sheep...

Do they make body armor to match their footie pajamas?

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:46 PM

25. Ewww fake rape rolling stones

You should just leave in embarrassment trying to link to that rag.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:12 PM

48. How is it in danger? You would need 3/4ths of the states to vote for it.

Name me the 37 states that would vote to repeal or change the 2nd Amendment. You've got New York, New Jersey, Illinois, and California, maybe a few others. Everyone else pro gun; especially the many many states in the middle.

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Response to Hades (Reply #48)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:08 PM

123. Good point.

The number needed to ratify is 38 states. Thus strengthening your argument further.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:43 PM

23. Well if you people would control the violent members of your party...

Hell just control the democrat controlled shitholes and that would reduce gun violence significantly. But until that happens I will protect my family and myself from those democrat thugs if they decide to bring their violent democrat tendency's to my area.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:51 PM

27. We have total control. The NRA has the constitution on its side, and billions in

funding to fight the grabbers at every turn, no matter how slight.

The NRA need show nothing. Not a thing. All the NRA needs to do is put top notch lawyers in the courtroom every single time the grabbers feel grabby.

Outspend the grabbers in the courts and the citizens win.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:55 PM

28. Anyone who compares Australia's gun

Culture to the US likely doesn't understand either.

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Response to GoodCraic (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:03 PM

42. Fair enough. Please proceed.

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #42)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:10 PM

119. Just look at the sheer numbers.

In their buyback program they gathered about 1 million guns. I'm not sure what percentage of the total guns in the country, but in the US there is an estimated 310 million guns. Lets say for argument's sake, they could change the Constitution and retract the 2nd amendment. How many guns do you think would be voluntarily turned in? They'll get none of mine.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:57 PM

30. You can dream



In the mean time, you need a better narrative.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #30)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:02 PM

41. When the sun is at the height of its power, it begins to decline. Lao Tzu

 

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:02 PM

39. Send us a picture of the windmill.

Before, after, it's going to look the same.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:12 PM

49. mental masturbation, enjoy it

cause its all you people have.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:19 PM

55. Hehehehehehehehehehehehe! Joe made a funny!

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Response to goodwords (Reply #55)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:24 PM

56. Do you even own a gun?

 

Pray tell . . .

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #56)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:33 PM

58. I lost mine in a terrible boating accident!!

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Response to goodwords (Reply #58)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:34 PM

59. In the ocean when you were rowing to India?

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #59)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:38 PM

61. Must suck pretty hard to watch all your dreams slip slide away to a reality you can't compete in....

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Response to goodwords (Reply #61)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:24 AM

81. What were the muslims like in India? The ones you met there . . .

 

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #81)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:21 PM

129. Oh Joe, you simple fellow...the only thing I can tell, I went to study Asian mysticism and ended up

with enough footage for a Ken Burns film on how they treat their dead, especially the poor.

But see, you have never claimed to have been there so you wouldn't have a fucking clue what I'm talking about!

So I just pissed away 3 min writing this for nothing. I hate wasting my time good buddy, and you are constantly wasting my fucking time!

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Response to goodwords (Reply #129)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:17 PM

139. I've been there too. Also I lived in a South-Asian country with about ten percent

 

Indian population.

During the Thaipusam festival, men stick fishooks into their skin and knitting needles through their cheeks and march up hundreds of steps to Batu Caves where they then slather themselves and others with colored rice flour.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:30 PM

57. The NRA isn't your issue.

Roughly 5% of gun owners in the US are NRA members.

You're fighting the will of the people.

If you want to do that, knock your socks off (or educate yourself and try to convince fun owners from a position of knowledge) but it's going to be a real uphill battle because those who support the 2nd Amendment know a lot more about the actual issues and the law than the uninformed knee-jerk gun-ban supporters.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:41 PM

62. Thing is. A musket is not the style rifle sold today.

Defend yourself with a musket. That is the 2nd.

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #62)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:48 PM

63. I don't recall seeing muskets mentioned in the 2nd. Nice try. Thanks for playing.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #63)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:16 PM

65. Yeah. No shampoo directions either. Rinse twice.

Ed -- A Petition For Stronger Gun Laws:

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #62)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:28 PM

67. Thing is. A quill and paper is not the form of communication available today

Express yourself on parchment.

That is the first

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Response to Smoke (Reply #67)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:42 PM

68. Let us go back to hemp paper.

Let us look back at the musket.

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #68)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:31 AM

75. let's look at the Puckle Gun

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #62)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:20 AM

76. Confine you opinions to moveable type press.

 

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #62)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:10 PM

138. So you agree that freedom of the press...

clearly does not apply to electronic mediums and is reserved for the written word.

By the way, you'd lose on that one as well.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:42 PM

69. At that point it's time to take up those arms

At that point the constitution is being destroyed

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:43 PM

70. "Any day now."



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Response to Doctor_R (Reply #70)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:54 PM

71. Heard that from my father all my life.

"any day". Not exactly saying 'any day'. but bad talking about how evil the Gov is.

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #71)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 11:16 PM

73. Unchecked government

IS evil.

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:56 AM

78. Hey Joe...

Do you know...

That restrictions on NFA items are being reduced next month?

You going to blame the NRA for that? What is your opinion on this?

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Response to 700WinMag (Reply #78)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:27 AM

82. Thank heavens . . . more silencers and full-auto etc. Now I feel much safer.

 

How did we get along without them?

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #82)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 10:54 AM

89. There will not be more full-auto.

There is a finite and never growing number on the registry. A number not set by the NFA.

Again I have to ask is this parody, you have been wrong on every zig and zag you have taken in this thread.

Stereotypicaly uninformed taken to the level of farce.

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Response to _eek (Reply #89)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:02 AM

90. It's the KBAR's fall back argument. "I'm obsessed with fine points of knowledge about

 

guns, gun culture, gun laws, ballistics, bullet performance, barrel twist etc. in a way that no reasonable person with a life could possibly be. For instance, I can lecture for an hour on the difference between a magazine and a clip and elaborate on the difference between a stripper clip and an en bloc clip. Therefore, you who are simply well-informed on guns have no right to have an opinion."

Yeah, well, the 80 percent of gun owners who think we need more gun control laws disagree with you.

Maybe you can convince those millions how unbelievably knowledgeable you are.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #90)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:21 AM

95. These are not fine points..

Which seems to be the fall back of the Ignorant.

You keep opining on specifics, and now cry foul when your ignorance is exposed.

And I will now call bullshit on your 80% of gun controllers agreeing with YOUR stance. Nice try, but the majority in no way agree with you on this one.

Your final 2 sentences are pure unmitigated bullshit, as I am in agreement with THEM that we need to do something, just not what you want. I am arguing with you and pointing out your ignorance, don't hide behind other gun owners, although that does seem to be all you fear mongers are good at.
Enjoy herd immunity while bitching bout the vaccine..

Keep quibbling, lying and playing gotcha games, the bodies are piling up and those are you and your ilks fault at this point.

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Response to _eek (Reply #95)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:35 PM

101. The bodies are piling up and it's MY FAULT? WTF?

 

Don't bogart that joint, my friend. Pass it over to me.

You want no gun control whatsoever--basically what we have now--and it's MY FAULT the bodies are piling up.

We've seen what happens with no gun control whatsoever: Columbine, Sandy Hook, San Bernardino, Gabby Giffords, and now Orlando. So you want more of that, and it's my fault what happened so far has happened.

Sheesh, okay. Now I know not to take you seriously anymore.

As for stats on who wants gun control, you've got none. Here're some of mine:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-americans-agree-with-obama-that-more-gun-buyers-should-get-background-checks/

"Consistently, at least 70 percent of Americans said they favor background checks. Often, far more do. In October, a CBS News/New York Times poll found that 92 percent of Americans — including 87 percent of Republicans — favor background checks for all gun buyers."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/most-gun-owners-support-background-checks-and-other-limits-so-why-arent-their-voices-heard/2015/10/07/af9c96b0-6c41-11e5-aa5b-f78a98956699_story.html

Gun owners who occupy the middle ground complain that they are rarely sought out or heard, yet polls show that the majority of gun owners support universal background checks and other controversial limits. President Obama is reportedly considering using his executive authority to impose new ­background-check requirements for high-volume dealers in private sales — and many gun owners may support that.

“There’s this perception that people are neatly divided into folks who want an M1A1 Abrams battle tank to drive to work and those who want to melt every last gun and bullet into doorstops,” said Patrick Tomlinson, a science-fiction writer and gun owner in Milwaukee who favors universal background checks and longer waiting periods for gun purchases. “There seems to be no middle there, but I know there is. I’m in it.”

BTW, as for your self-righteous "I know more than you about guns" schtick, someone has already written a reply.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027916489

It won't have any impact on you, but it's still right.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #101)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:48 PM

107. "You want no gun control whatsoever"

Please back up your assertion, or apologize for lying about me and my desires..

Buck up, I am sure you'll find it.

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Response to _eek (Reply #107)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:50 PM

109. Okay, fine. Don't play coy like a little girl.

 

What gun control do you want that we don't have now?

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #109)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:59 PM

112. misogyny from you?

no never .. and insults.

Ask nicely and I will tell you.

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Response to _eek (Reply #112)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:24 PM

114. And you're still playing coy . . .

 

like a little girl.

Say, are you a little girl?

After thinking about it, I really don't care what your ideas on gun control are.

Stuff 'em in that Disney Princess purse of yours.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #114)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:29 PM

115. Keep on winning Joe.

I find my daughter, a little girl, to be a unending gift, her intelligence, forthrightness and refreshing charity are something I find admirable.

I have a Powerpuff Girls back pack, you can't even get that right.

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Response to _eek (Reply #115)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:36 PM

116. Little girls are delightful. Grown men who act like little girls . . .

 

not so much.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #116)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:44 PM

117. Keep saying it. You are the one coming off petulant and dishonest.

It really's reinforces my point you are a dishonorable and any compromise with the likes of you would be a fools errand.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #90)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:05 PM

145. So, it's not necessary to really understand

things before making law, or creating policy?

Do you spend a lot of time deciding how surgeons or bridge engineers should do things? I don't. I don't know anywhere near enough about medicine or civil engineering.

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Response to 762Justice (Reply #145)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:35 PM

146. You don't have to know the difference between an AR 15 platform and

 

a Sig Sauer MCX to know that a thirty round magazine is inherently dangerous to public welfare.

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Response to JoeHill (Reply #82)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:16 PM

113. You lose.

Again...

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Response to 700WinMag (Reply #113)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:00 PM

121. are we reading the same thread.

joe came off as informed compassionate and reasonable...gun owners will be the losers in the near future

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Response to soosin60 (Reply #121)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:05 PM

122. Bipolar

 

ain't a LGBT bear

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Response to TexMex (Reply #122)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:18 PM

124. i have no idea what that means

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Response to soosin60 (Reply #121)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:29 PM

125. So in soosin speak..

Admitting you don't know anything is well informed?

Or is it just your confirmation bias.

All the reasonable folks call people little girls when caught lying and/or being flat out wrong.

Name calling is the new compassionate!

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Response to _eek (Reply #125)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:05 PM

127. we all have our world view..and yes the thread did devolve

but you don't have to know anything about guns to know they are used to kill people. all you need is common sense to see this won't stand much longer. enjoy your guns while you still can, but please be careful those things are dangerous.

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Response to soosin60 (Reply #127)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:08 PM

128. I am very careful.

Especially as I know exactly what they are actually capable of.

And as for common sense it seems quite uncommon in the lies of the hoplophobic left.

It has stood, and will stand and nothing you or Joe can do will change that.

Tide is turning.. or as some say, anyfucking day now!! yeah, we''ll see.

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Response to soosin60 (Reply #127)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:42 PM

132. Tell me...

Which states are going to vote to repeal the second amendment, or is a democrat "king" just going to "decree it so?"

You lefties kill me with your (lack of) understanding of the constitution.

Democrats filibustered in the senate today whining that people who are put on the "no-fly list" are still able to buy guns.

There are grandmothers on that list, congresspersons, even ted (hic) kennedy was on that list.

When you figure out a way to guarantee American citizens the right to at least KNOW THEY'RE ON THE LIST, other than showing up to board a flight, propose it.

When you figure out a way to get your name OFF OF THAT LIST, propose it.

Until then, deal with it.

It sounds like your beloved federal government has a LOT of work to do to make sure the people on that list actually deserve to be there.

Until they figure out a way to maintain those lists without denying American citizens their rights, NO .

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Response to Doctor_R (Reply #132)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:09 PM

137. my husband was on that list

seems he shares his name with an Irish terrorist...he's not on it any more so yup...

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Response to soosin60 (Reply #121)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:41 PM

126. "...gun owners will be the losers in the near future"

 

How?

Last I looked gun laws are becoming more liberalized, not less; you guys can't pass laws unless you sneak them out at midnight and without debate but then people aren't registering guns where required and LEOs aren't enforcing registration and magazine limits.

You lost before this started.

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Response to soosin60 (Reply #121)

Thu Jun 16, 2016, 08:47 AM

148. How so?

As I just stated regulations are being loosened not tightened.

So in the near future how will gun owners be losers? Please present facts not liberal dreams...

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:40 PM

131. Not a difficult task

"The least trustful entity in our society is government"

There you go, task complete. What's next?

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Response to JoeHill (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:52 PM

133. Factually wrong on everything

Things seem to take a long time to change, but when they change, they change very fast.

Consider gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and a black President before you say that it can't happen here. Consider Australia, which had a wide open gun culture completely crushed by one mass shooting. The three has nothing to do with each other. Australia never had a wide open gun culture. All of their states had at least licensing, some with registration.

The NRA idea that anyone should have any gun at any time anywhere, that the government has no right to know who has what guns or has any authority to pass safe storage requirements, that guns should be untraceable, that an average Joe or Jane should be able to carry concealed without any training whatsoever, that guns need not be safety or drop tested, that gun manufacturers are protected against unsafe product lawsuits, etc. is not realistic in today's world. Straw man. They never said "anyone at anytime". They are right, the federal government has no right to pass safe storage requirements. The average Joe and Jane who carry concealed is better trained than the average cop. The average gang banger in Chicago has no training. It isn't rocket science. Every handgun made since FDR is drop safe without regulation. No, the government has no right to know what I own.

Gun manufactures are not immune from unsafe product lawsuits, that is a lie.

This no-compromise position means that when change comes, and it will come, gun enthusiasts will have no control over it. Bullshit, you don't want compromise, you want concessions if not surrender.
Here is how compromise works, what are you willing to give in return?

Come back when you know what you are talking about and with valid arguments.

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