Politicspoliticsorlandoshooteromarmateen

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:48 PM

Orlando shooter Omar Mateen does not represent Muslims

So don't point to him and say we should ban all Muslims from entry into the US.

By the very same token, Mateen does not represent gun owners. So don't say we should restrict everybody's gun ownership because of what this one gun owner did.

Choose your bigotry. There's plenty of it going around.

38 replies, 1871 views

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Orlando shooter Omar Mateen does not represent Muslims (Original post)
New Deal Democrat Jun 2016 OP
specs Jun 2016 #1
TexMex Jun 2016 #10
Sibelian the White Jun 2016 #23
brew9876 Jun 2016 #35
RolandLePreux Jun 2016 #2
the more you know Jun 2016 #3
safestuffer Jun 2016 #6
Arne Oker Jun 2016 #22
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #26
Arne Oker Jun 2016 #30
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #31
New Deal Democrat Jun 2016 #37
FORD Jun 2016 #4
Grumpy Pickle Jun 2016 #8
FORD Jun 2016 #9
Grumpy Pickle Jun 2016 #13
FORD Jun 2016 #14
_eek Jun 2016 #15
Arne Oker Jun 2016 #24
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #27
Paradigm Jun 2016 #34
island4diver Jun 2016 #5
LaughingGull Jun 2016 #7
TexMex Jun 2016 #11
New Deal Democrat Jun 2016 #16
Lifelong Jun 2016 #12
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #28
swifty Jun 2016 #17
Tolk Jun 2016 #18
swifty Jun 2016 #19
Tolk Jun 2016 #20
foia Jun 2016 #21
Arne Oker Jun 2016 #25
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #29
Arne Oker Jun 2016 #32
I814U2CY Jun 2016 #33
foia Jun 2016 #36
Letmypeoplevote Jun 2016 #38

Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:54 PM

1. Of course he represents all Muslims, and all Democrats for that matter

 

the Truth is never bigotry, that line of thinking is why there are 49 people dead in Orlando due to a Democrat and the regressive ideology that grips that party.

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Response to specs (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:21 PM

10. Dumbest post on this topic yet

 

That was quite an accomplishment

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Response to specs (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:10 AM

23. There are Muslims all over the place condemning him.


Stop being ridiculous.

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Response to specs (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:47 AM

35. Best post here...the truth is the truth. Some little flowers can't handle that.

Kind of like the fort hood shooter...work place violence my ass. Democrats will do anything to deflect the truth. Bottom line...muslim and in this case democrat. But to some here he was a right wing republican. That shows you the amount of delusions these idiots have in their head.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:54 PM

2. What about the 86% of Egyptians surveyed by Pew Research

who say they support laws calling for the execution of apostates of Islam? Should they at least be asked about that by U.S. Immigration when they apply for permanent U.S. residence and be excluded on that basis? Is it bigotry to oppose that mindset?

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 09:56 PM

3. Then why do democrats believe he represents all gun owners?

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Response to the more you know (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:03 PM

6. While the shooter doesn't represent the entirety of muslims,

He does represent an alarmingly large percentage of them that either condone violence or do not respect the rights of others to live free of Islam.
I don't think we should ban all muslims, or even some. I do think we should take a serious look at which ones we are to allow to immigrate in and where they originate from, and if fundamentalism or support for fundamentalism exists, denials to enter should be made.
I also think the FBI is capable of weeding most of these domestic islamic terrorists out...but they have to actually follow through with their investigations...it seems every single one of these terrorists were known to the FBI but allowed to carry on. Now, actually detaining or deporting them prior to their violent acts is the kicker, and would include violating the rights to due process, and guilt by suspicion, which I'm adamantly against.
Its a complicated issue.

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Response to the more you know (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:00 AM

22. Does Dylan Roof represent all White Southerners?

Does Robert Dear represent the Pro-Life movement?

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:53 AM

26. No. He represents all homicidal bigots. Now, since we're talking about lethal ideologies let's

 

talk about Islam.

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:03 AM

30. There are Muslim bigots. There are Christian bigots.

There are Jewish bigots. There are Buddhist bigots. There are Hindu bigots. Some of these bigots are indeed homicidal, you can find examples in all five groups.

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:08 AM

31. Yet, if we we to stack up the number of incidents and bodies Islam runs away with the prize.

 

You're racing around in post after post crying about "assault weapons" having a higher propensity to kill. Yet, when Islam stacks the bodies at your feet and they tell you they want more, more, more and they'll use carpet razors and pressure cookers to do it you just slink away whining about gun owners.

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Response to the more you know (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 09:13 AM

37. All Democrats don't believe he represents all gun owners.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:02 PM

4. He DOES represent people who should NOT own guns, however.

 

If you have a documented paper trail of being a violent nutcase, you should not have a gun. FUCK convictions... if the cops were called and paperwork was filed, that's enough of a red flag.

George Zimmerman, anyone? Another asshole from Florida with a long paper trail (much longer than Mateen's) of violence and mental instability, and yet he was able to buy guns and commit murder.

Is one murder less of a tragedy than 50? I suppose if you want to measure things that way, but the point is that both tragedies were equally preventable, if the simple common sense solution was implemented:

If you are a violent psychopath, you don't get a fucking gun. End of story. No goddamned exceptions. Enough is enough of this bullshit.

The fact that this guy was under FBI surveillance is beside the point, since the first red flag of being a documented violent psychopath should have been sufficient. But it only makes it that much worse.... and for THAT, you can lay the blame directly at the feet of the serial killer Wayne LaPierre and his sociopathic gun manufacturer lobby called the NRA. They DEMANDED that terrorists "rights" to own assault weapons not be infringed.

Fuck you Wayne. I hope some 50 foot python crawls out of the toilet and wraps itself around his neck.

Why? Because the irony of his gun not being able to save him would be hilarious. Though he's such a pussy he's probably got a spare gun mounted to the back of his toilet.

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Response to FORD (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:10 PM

8. The Orlando-muslim-shooter-democrat was a security guard...you know, with guns and sh_t.

That`s what security guards do...they carry and shoot guns.

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Response to Grumpy Pickle (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:18 PM

9. I would also question the sanity of any security company that would hire this mental case.

 

I hope there's a serious investigation of that company. Who knows what other kind of lunatics they have working for them.

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Response to FORD (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:42 PM

13. This company does subcontracting to ....wait for it....Dept of Home land Security !

G4S......they also do security for 90% of the US nuclear power plants.

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Response to Grumpy Pickle (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:46 PM

14. Oh happy happy joy joy!

 

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Response to FORD (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:53 PM

15. G4$ has some issues.

I left Wackenhut when they merged.

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Response to Grumpy Pickle (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:17 AM

24. Where did he get his AR-15?

Not from his company. He bought it at a gun shop. Now I saw the shop owner, and I'm sure that he was perfectly sincere in saying that he had no idea what this guy was going to do (how could he have known?), and was following the law. But if we can ban the sale of machine guns (something the NRA supported back when they were led by sane people) can we consider banning the sale of certain other guns whose best purpose seems to be slaughtering the maximum number of people in the minimum amount of time? If we did that we could certainly leave the majority of types of guns untouched.

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:57 AM

27. He could have killed just as many people with a few bicycle chains and a beer bottle full of gas

 

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:35 AM

34. He didn't have an AR-15. Why do grabbers think every scary looking black rifle is an AR-15?

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:03 PM

5. He represents the ideology that Islam is based on

His views on gays, Kafirs in general, are very mainstream among Muslims. Islam is a totalitarian and supremacist ideology that the Czechs call "communism with a god". I think that is why the left kisses its ass so much, that and Islam is an ally to destroy the Enlightenment and Western Civilization. Then there is the whole antisemitism thing on the left.

BTW, have you called out lefties who are anti Christian bigots? Anti Mormon bigots? Oh wait, that is respectable bigotry, just like Al Sharpton's anti white bigotry is respectable.

Bigotry against individual Muslims is wrong. Islam, just like Christianity and atheism or any other set of ideas, is fair game.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:10 PM

7. He doesn't represent Muslims. He represents the Muslim religion.

The Muslim religion is violent and dangerous.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:23 PM

11. Nice to hear a reasonable, rational voice chime in.

 

I couldn't agree more.

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Response to TexMex (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 12:56 AM

16. Thank you Tex

That has meaning to me.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 10:24 PM

12. How about forgetting what religion they are?

Christian vs Muslim? Anybody want to go there on mass shootings?

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Response to Lifelong (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 05:58 AM

28. Yes.

 

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:37 AM

17. You are both right and wrong.

We shouldn't ban all Muslims from entry into the U.S., but we should ban all assault weapon ownership. The two rights are not analogous.The more we narrow our categories of reasoning to the actual facts of the Orlando shooter case, the more reasonable it seems to ban assault weapons.

This can easily be seen if you extend your reasoning and say that because of the acts of Timothy McVeigh, we shouldn't restrict the right of people to make bombs. Notice that it starts to sound reasonable if we say, because of the acts of Lee Harvey Oswald, we shouldn't restrict the rights of people to own hunting rifles. That's a clue that we need to be specific about the nature of the judgments we are making at a more specific level of reasoning.

We can't merely say that there are two absolute rights and throw up our hands. Laws, by their very nature, have to be picayune and balance rights. Otherwise, there can be no laws that attempt to restrict any activity that is not an immediate threat when done by anyone at any time. There could be no speed limits, no limits on dumping pollution in rivers, no zoning laws. We should not regulate the rights of people to build sheds in our neighborhood merely because one person wants to build a hot pink shed in the middle of their front lawn?

In the assault weapons case, my inherent right to not be murdered has to be balanced against my right to own an assault weapon. Then the question becomes one of harm. How does the elimination of assault weapon ownership cause harm, and is it a reasonable degree of harm to inflict in order to counterbalance against the harm alleviated by reducing murder? The answer to most reasonable people would be that banning assault weapons causes much less harm relative to the increased safety and reduced level of fear the ban would create. An assault weapon ban is therefore a reasonable limitation to impose on freedom. It isn't desirable to limit the freedom, but it is reasonable and right.

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Response to swifty (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 01:41 AM

18. What is an assault weapon?

 

Do you know or is it just a scary word?

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Response to Tolk (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:08 AM

19. I think there is a broad understanding of what it is.

Yes, "assault weapon" is a scary term and pejorative unfortunately, but what better term is there?

I think the broad understanding is that an assault weapon (or "assault rifle," etc.) is a weapon that can be used to defend against or attack many human beings and is capable of inflicting a very high degree of damage in a very short time.


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Response to swifty (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 02:12 AM

20. So a revolver would be an assault weapon

 

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Response to swifty (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 03:07 AM

21. If I drove my car into a crowd

I could attack many human beings and inflict a very high degree of damage in a very short time.

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Response to foia (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 04:21 AM

25. The old "if you can't stop all of it, don't try to stop of any of it" argument

By that logic, we should abolish police departments, because they don't stop all crime, and shouldn't go to doctors, because they can't stop all illnesses.

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:00 AM

29. More like, "You won't stop any of it."

 

You won't reduce anything. You will stop nothing.

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:09 AM

32. So why not let people own machine guns?

Or grenade or rocket launchers? What they used in Benghazi?

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:12 AM

33. You think one pointless law justifies another? Ban ice cream cones and maybe the terrorists will be

 

too sad to attack.

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Response to Arne Oker (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 07:27 AM

36. You're trying really hard to be an idiot

And succeeding spectacularly.

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Response to New Deal Democrat (Original post)

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 06:13 PM

38. ISIS is to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity

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