Politicspoliticsvotingrightsvotingrightsidvoteridvotersuppressionsuppressiontargted

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:25 PM

Voter id laws are targeted to keep African Americans from voting

The sole and only reason for GOP voter suppression laws is to steal election. The 4th Circuit documented that the purpose of the GOP North Carolina voter suppression bill was to steal elections https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html?postshare=101472834315371&tid=ss_tw

A review of these documents shows that North Carolina GOP leaders launched a meticulous and coordinated effort to deter black voters, who overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. The law, created and passed entirely by white legislators, evoked the state’s ugly history of blocking African Americans from voting — practices that had taken a civil rights movement and extensive federal intervention to stop.

Last month, a three-judge federal appeals panel struck down the North Carolina law, calling it “the most restrictive voting law North Carolina has seen since the era of Jim Crow.” Drawing from the emails and other evidence, the 83-page ruling charged that Republican lawmakers had targeted “African Americans with almost surgical precision.”...

The Rev. William Barber II, president of North Carolina’s NAACP chapter, said the policies enacted by the law speak for themselves.

“You didn’t hear about fraud in North Carolina until blacks started voting in large numbers,” said Barber, who has also led a series of large protests against the law. “Then all of a sudden, there’s a problem with how people are voting.”

“People keep asking when they passed this law, ‘Were they racist in their heart?’ It doesn’t matter,” he added. “You look at the heart of their policies. If I tell you this law is going to affect black people more than anyone else, and you still go ahead and do it, you yourself are making clear exactly what you are.”

Longtime Republican consultant Carter Wrenn, a fixture in North Carolina politics, said the GOP’s voter fraud argument is nothing more than an excuse.

“Of course it’s political. Why else would you do it?” he said, explaining that Republicans, like any political party, want to protect their majority. While GOP lawmakers might have passed the law to suppress some voters, Wrenn said, that does not mean it was racist.

“Look, if African Americans voted overwhelmingly Republican, they would have kept early voting right where it was,” Wrenn said. “It wasn’t about discriminating against African Americans. They just ended up in the middle of it because they vote Democrat.”
This law was designed to steal elections by keeping African Americans from voting.

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Reply Voter id laws are targeted to keep African Americans from voting (Original post)
Letmypeoplevote Sep 2016 OP
Letmypeoplevote Sep 2016 #1
Letmypeoplevote Sep 2016 #2
specs Sep 2016 #3
Salaam Sep 2016 #95
specs Sep 2016 #102
Salaam Sep 2016 #103
specs Sep 2016 #104
Salaam Sep 2016 #105
specs Sep 2016 #107
Letmypeoplevote Sep 2016 #125
VOTE Sep 2016 #4
Letmypeoplevote Sep 2016 #5
nolidad Sep 2016 #21
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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:27 PM

1. Longtime Republican consultant: if black people voted Republican, voter ID laws wouldn't happen

The NC Carolina voter id was targeted to keep African Americans from voting http://www.vox.com/2016/9/2/12774066/voter-id-laws-racist

This is as close to a smoking gun as anyone is going to get. Wrenn fully acknowledged that this is political and black people are being targeted, and rejected the other claim — voter fraud — that Republicans typically use to justify new voting restrictions.

The justification Wrenn gives — that Republicans want to protect their majority in the government just like anyone else — is unsatisfying, to say the least. Sure, any party would love to keep a majority in the legislature. But in this case, what Republicans are trying to do to achieve that — disenfranchise voters, particularly on the basis of their race and party affiliation — is inherently bad.

This is not complicated. More people participating in democracy is good. We want people to be active in their society and government, so no voices go unheard. Yet Republican legislators explicitly want to prevent this for their own political gain, and they’re doing it in a way that targets people based on their race.

As Wrenn suggests, Republicans have tried to get around this by claiming that their real concern is preventing in-person voter fraud. By requiring a photo ID and limiting early voting days, they hope it’ll be easier to catch fraudulent voters.

There’s a problem with that: The type of in-person voter fraud that initiatives like North Carolina’s target is nonexistent to extremely rare. Loyola Law School professor Justin Levitt has tracked credible allegations of in-person voter fraud for years, finding 35 total credible allegations between 2000 and 2014, when more than 800 million ballots were cast in national general elections, and hundreds of millions more were cast in primary, municipal, special, and other elections.
The only reason for these law is to steal elections

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:28 PM

2. Wisconsin Republican Congressman lets the truth slip: Suppressive voter id laws will help GOP win in

The only purpose served by voter id laws is to steal elections by suppressing the vote. The good news is that this admission is coming out just in time for the trial of the Wisconsin voter id law in May http://www.salon.com/2016/04/06/wisconsin_republican_congressman_lets_the_truth_slip_suppressive_voter_id_laws_will_help_republicans_win_in_november/

The message the morning after Wisconsin’s most restrictive election in decades from Republicans is “what voter suppression?”

While college campuses across the states saw long lines at the polls on Tuesday as Wisconsin’s new stringent voter identification law took effect for the first time, Republican turnout managed to break records. So naturally, conservatives like MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough were busying laughing off claims of voter suppression days after the Department of Justice opened an investigation into Republicans’ decision to slash polling stations in Arizona’s largest county by more than 90 percent. But while much of the damage of Wisconsin’s new voting restrictions remains to be assessed, at least one Wisconsin Republican is already admitting that if nothing else, such new laws help Republicans in November.

Rep. Glenn Grothman, a rabid right-wing supporter who thinks Wisconsinites taking a weekend off is “a little ridiculous” and has described liberal protesters as a “bunch of slobs,” is once again making national headlines for running his mouth.

During a Cruz victory rally in Milwaukee Tuesday night, the conservative congressman told local NBC News affiliate TMJ4’s Charles Benson that he was certain that Cruz could turn Wisconsin red with the aide of restrictive new voter id laws. In 2011, controversial conservative Governor Scott Walker passed a stringent voter id law and failed to follow-up, as legally required, with a public service campaign educating Wisconsin residents on how to obtain proper identification. The result in the first major election since the laws’ passage, was major lines at polling places like those on college campuses as students were informed their state-issued school id was not an acceptable form of identification and were forced to apply for new id cards. Still, in a state that has pioneered voter access with same-day registration since 1975, over one million voters showed up to vote in the Republican primary — the highest since Reagan’s Republican revolution in 1980.

“I think Hillary Clinton is about the weakest candidate the Democrats have ever put up. And now we have photo ID, and I think photo ID is going to make a little bit of a difference as well,” Grothman admitted to Benson when asked how a Republican can win in November when one hasn’t won in the state’s general election since 1984.

Grothman’s admission is clearly not in line with the larger Republican message that voter id laws hardly work to suppress the vote. But as Grothman implicitly understands and as has been explicitly reported, 9 percent of Wisconsin’s electorate or 300,000 registered voters could be disenfranchised by Republicans’ voter id laws.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:31 PM

3. They have ID to buy smokes, beer, get welfare, health care, drive etc.

 

and the Rat Party require it to enter their functions

Voter ID laws only make sense, that is why your Regressive thoughts cannot understand why they are not a big deal.

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Response to specs (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:03 PM

95. ID laws are a "solution" to a non-existent problem.

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Response to Salaam (Reply #95)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:37 PM

102. Says the guy from the party that gets the dead vote every year

 

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Response to specs (Reply #102)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 07:12 PM

103. You forgot to attach your evidence.

Guessing you will not attach anything.

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Response to Salaam (Reply #103)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 07:22 PM

104. As soon as your tuition check clears

 

Till them learn to google bisch.

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Response to specs (Reply #104)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 07:25 PM

105. 1) Make assertion

2) refuse to provide "evidence" to back it.

Got it.

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Response to Salaam (Reply #105)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 07:32 PM

107. not my fault you refuse to read anything other than regressive opinionated blogs :)

 

try a real news source once in awhile, and no the late-night talk shows and comedy central do not count.

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Response to specs (Reply #102)

Tue Sep 20, 2016, 03:57 PM

125. Prove your claim with facts

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:36 PM

4. I don't like the regression of making it easier to vote

but I have no problem requiring an ID to vote.

I've been voting in my district in Florida for almost two years now and have not had a single problem.

I have no idea why people are complaining about voter ID laws. Seems like a stupid waste of time.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:40 PM

5. Voting Rights Is Not a Fringe Issue

The GOP is trying to keep certain groups from voting to steal elections https://www.thenation.com/article/voting-rights-is-not-a-fringe-issue/

 But at the same time, the corporate media, especially on television, have largely ignored the actual attempts to rig state and local elections across the country through laws that make it much harder for certain people to vote. Voter suppression—that Republican-generated roster of voting restrictions that disproportionately impact minorities, students, and other traditionally Democratic voters–comes in many guises. There are strict voter ID laws requiring hard-to-come-by documents; illegitimate purges of the voting rolls; hurdles to voter registration; cut backs on early voting days; reductions in polling places, often resulting in three- and four-hour lines. Courts have recently blocked or weakened restrictions in six states, but voter suppression in one form or another will likely affect hundreds of thousands of people in this, the first presidential election without the full protection of the Voting Rights Act, which was gutted by the Supreme Court in 2013

“The only reason that the Republicans can get away with a policy that is beyond unconscionable is that the MSM don’t really seem to care,” Neal Gabler wrote on BillMoyers.com. “More, Republicans count on the media not caring.”

Of course, not all media have ignored voter suppression. In addition to great work by local papers, you’ll find plenty of aggressive coverage in print and online, from the New York Times’s Michael Wines, who reported recently on how sheriff’s deputies in Sparta, GA, track down black people to question their registrations to MSNBC Digital national reporter Zachary Roth, author of The Great Suppression, who says there’s evidence to suggest that voter suppression can swing elections. “The best example might be the 2014 race in Texas’s only competitive congressional district, which the Republican won by just over 2,400 votes,” Roth told me. A Rice University study found that in the confusion and misinformation surrounding the state’s new voter ID law, some 14,000 registered voters in the Latino-majority district didn’t vote because they mistakenly believed they lacked the proper ID.....

 “The courts have said states are trying to disenfranchise African Americans with surgical precision. That should be a big story—this is Jim Crow all over again. But the news media cover it hit and miss—when a court case comes up and then they roll onto the next story,” he continued. “Why aren’t they doing hardcore reporting, going to state legislatures with microphones and cameras? Instead, it’s more like: ‘They don’t want black people to vote?’ Shrug. ‘Is that news?’”,,,,

Suppression has and will continue to affect and possibly swing elections. The media should not discount it. “There are very concrete numbers coming out of these court cases; we have razor-thin margins in many elections,” Weiser says. The press could be more regularly asking, she says, “what do voting rules mean for control of our House, state legislature, and federal races, which communities are going to win, which are going to lose with the current rules?”

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 08:30 AM

21. Sorry but your inflammatory rhetoric just doesn't wash in light of facts.

I cannot say that there is no racism involved in some of this:

But in light of the millions of attempted voter fraud across the nation and in almost all states, voter ID is not a bad idea! Most states accept a drivers license or other from of state photo ID as valid.

People registering under 8-10 different names would be stopped from that fraud.

I am all for taking every effort to protect the right to vote- but also to prevent proven fraud from staying in the system.

And ID requirements being suppresive are bunk. These same people need ID's for so many things and they seem to be able to find the time and ability to get them!

Even Obama admitted voter IDS laws do not keep people from voting:

Back in October, however, Obama told Reverend Al Sharpton he did not think Voter ID laws kept people from voting.

“Of course, our democracy is not the task of Congress alone, or the courts alone, or the President alone. If every new voter suppression law was struck down today, we’d still have one of the lowest voting rates among free peoples. Fifty years ago, registering to vote here in Selma and much of the South meant guessing the number of jellybeans in a jar or bubbles on a bar of soap,” Obama said then. “It meant risking your dignity, and sometimes, your life. What is our excuse today for not voting? How do we so casually discard the right for which so many fought? How do we so fully give away our power, our voice, in shaping America’s future?”

He explained, “Keep in mind most of these laws are not preventing the the overwelimgly majority of folks who don’t vote from voting. Most people do have ID. Most people do have a drivers license. Most people can get to the polls. But the bottom line is, if less then half of our folks vote, these laws aren’t preventing the other half from not voting.”



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/07/flashback-obama-claims-voter-id-laws-do-not-stop-our-folks-from-voting/#ixzz4JNrtO56Q

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Response to nolidad (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 12:17 PM

33. If You Think Voter ID Is About Voter Fraud, This Republican Congressman Has News For Yo

Do you ever tire of being wrong? Your claims are always wrong and you are unable to back up these claims with facts. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/04/06/3767043/glenn-grothman-voter-id-wisconsin-partisan/

During an interview with a local TV station yesterday, Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI) admitted as much. Asked by a reporter why he thinks Ted Cruz or Donald Trump can become the first Republican to carry Wisconsin in a presidential election since 1984, Grothman said, “Now we have photo ID, and I think photo ID is gonna make a little bit of a difference.”



There’s truth to Grothman’s statement, even if he didn’t mean to be so direct about it. The aforementioned paper shows that by making it more difficult for minorities to vote, voter ID benefits Republicans.

“Democratic turnout drops by an estimated 8.8 percentage points in general elections when strict photo identification laws are in place,” compared to just 3.6 percentage points for Republicans, researchers from the University of California, San Diego write.

Even worse for the left is the impact on such laws on who turns out.

“For strong liberals the estimated drop in turnout in strict photo identification states is an alarming 7.9 percentage points,” researchers found. “By contrast, strong conservatives actually vote at a slightly higher rate — 4.8 points — in strict ID states, all else equal.”
Do you want to try to substantiate your claims about voter fraud? I had fun with you last time you tried and failed

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #33)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 04:19 PM

45. So you think he is an overt racist???

or might he have been referring to this kind of stuff:

November 4, 2008: Voter Fraud in Milwaukee (ACORN)

Investigators found after an eighteen-month probe that in 2004 there had been an “illegal organized attempt to influence the outcome of an election in the state of Wisconsin.” Among the problems it cited were ineligible voters casting ballots, felons not only voting but working at the polls, transient college students casting improper votes, and homeless voters possibly voting more than once.

Examples of incompetence included the fact that between 4,600 and 5,300 more ballots were cast than voters who were recorded as having shown up at the polls in Milwaukee. More than 1,300 registration cards filled out at the polls were declared “un-enterable” or invalid by election officials.

The report directly implicated the John Kerry campaign and allied get-out-the-vote organizations in widespread illegal voting committed by their campaign workers, many of whom came from out-of-state. The most common method they used was to abuse the state’s same-day voter registration law, which allowed anyone to show up at the polls, register and then cast a ballot. Local election officials who asked for proof of residence from these Kerry campaign staff members were often stymied when “other staff members who were registered voters vouched for them by corroborating their residency. More alarmingly, other staff members who were deputy registrars for this election simply registered these individuals as Milwaukee residents, bypassing Election officials altogether. The actions of the listed campaign and 527 staff members appear to be violations of State of Wisconsin law….”

The report went on at length to detail how these paid, professional workers violated the law. Case #4 was an attorney who had lived in Washington, D.C., since 1999 but came to Wisconsin to help with the campaign and voted using an address in Milwaukee. Case #6 involved another attorney who was living in England before the 2004 election. After coming to work on the Kerry campaign in Milwaukee, the person registered and voted in the 2004 election using a Milwaukee address. The owner of that address was interviewed by investigators and “stated that #6′s sole purpose in coming to the state of Wisconsin was to work on the presidential campaign” and that the person returned to England after the election.

Investigators found that “two persons who had entered guilty pleas to misdemeanor charges of Election Fraud within one year of the November General Election also were employed as Election Inspectors” when voting took place on November 2, 2004. A total of eighteen convicted felons were sworn in as deputy registrars in 2004. Of the fifteen felons who listed a sponsoring organization, eight named ACORN as their sponsoThe investigators believed that at least sixteen workers from all levels of the Kerry campaign and the two get out-the vote groups “committed felony crimes.” But no prosecutors chose to pursue them, the report noted.

The police report found that Milwaukee had no system to prevent felons, who are blocked from casting a ballot under Wisconsin law, from voting, due to the same-day registration system: It determined that at least 220 ineligible felons voted in 2004. Because it listed someone as ineligible only if it found an exact match between a voter and an ineligible felon, the report noted “there is a strong probability that the number of felons illegally voting in November 2004 is higher.”

Milwaukee police also remarked that the city has a sad history of abusing homeless voters, with the most famous incident being the “Smokes for Votes” scandal in which a Park Avenue heiress flew in from New York in 2000 to offer cigarettes to the homeless if they voted for Al Gore. (Source)

February 29, 2012: Fraudulent Recall Petition Signatures in Wisconsin

"True the Vote," in conjunction with the "Verify the Recall" volunteers, recently completed its data input and analysis of Walker Recall Petition signatures. (The link to actual data can be found at: http://www.truethevote.org/reports/walker-exec-summary.pdf.) Here's a brief breakdown of the numbers:

* Total number of signatures submitted was approximately 800,000.
* Number of pages (of recall petitions) submitted: 152,508
* Number of records processed: 1,382,058
* Blank lines (on petition pages): 557,469
* Unique records: 819,233
* Incomplete/undecipherable records: 36,127
* Signed w/date out of range: 14,763
* Out of state: 4,718
* Duplicate signatures: 5,356
* TOTAL INELIGIBLE SIGNATURES: 55,606
* TOTAL SIGNATURES FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION: 228,940 (These signatures were partially marked through, illegible, possibly false, mismatched, or otherwise compromised.)
* TOTAL ELIGIBLE SIGNATURES based on data available: 534,685 (Source)


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Response to nolidad (Reply #45)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:07 PM

97. Mixing apples and oranges, but it still does not add up to the

millions of fraudulent votes you cited earlier.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #33)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 04:30 PM

46. And maybe this stuff a swell???

June 5, 2012: Voter Fraud in Wisconsin

A Madison City Clerk has told a Wisconsin radio host that turnout for the area is expected at over 100%, up to 119%.

Heavy turnout in Madison, a liberal stronghold, would likely benefit Democrat Tom Barrett.

Progressives shrug the 119% figure off as evidence that people are registering at the polls to vote. Considering that Wisconsin has oddly relaxed voter ID laws and a judge granted an injunction against measures that would have protected people's votes, is it any surprise? (Source) and (Source) and (Source)


November 6, 2012: Voter Fraud in Ohio and Wisconsin

Cleveland and Milwaukee have had long histories of voter fraud. A 78-page police report by the Milwaukee Police Department's Investigative Unit a few years ago found an organized conspiracy that tried to steal the 2004 Presidential Election. They found there were 6,000 people, for example, who had registered to vote at the polls on Election Day. They voted, their ballots were counted, but when the mail went out to their addresses to give them their voter registration card, 6,000 of them came back: there was no such address, or it was a vacant lot, or the person had not been there for years. (Source)

WI – 2008: At least 33,000 ACORN-submitted registrations in Milwaukee have been called into question after it was found that the organizations had been using felons as registration workers, in violation of state election rules. Two people involved in the ongoing Wisconsin voter fraud investigation have been charged with felonies.
– 2004: The district attorney’s office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, “an apparent violation of state law,” according to the paper. (Source)

Autumn 2004: Voter-Registration Fraud in Wisconsin

In Racine, Wisconsin, around the same time, election officials discovered that Project Vote, another left-wing advocacy group, had filed scores of applications with phony addresses and other questionable items. The acting City Clerk asked the district attorney's office to pursue possible criminal charges. Ohio, Nevada, Iowa—similar stories abounded in states across the country. (Source)

March 8, 2010: Voter Fraud and Voter-Registration Fraud in Wisconsin (ACORN)

Five Wisconsin residents have been charged with criminal counts of voter fraud in the November 2008 general election, state Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen announced Monday. Two of those charged – Maria Miles, 36, of Milwaukee, and Kevin Clancy, 26, of Racine – worked for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), the embattled community organizing group.

"The complaint alleges that Miles and Clancy submitted multiple voter registration applications for the same individuals, and also were part of a scheme in which they and other (special registration deputies) registered each other to vote multiple times in order to meet voter registration quotas imposed by ACORN," the Van Hollen news release says. Both were charged with one felony count. Also charged were a couple – Herbert Gunka, 60, and Suzanne Gunka, 54, both of Milwaukee – for supposedly double voting in November 2008, once absentee and once at the polls.

Michael Henderson, 40, was charged with two felony counts of being a felon who cast a ballot even though he was still on probation. The Milwaukee man was convicted in 2005 in Rock County with two felonies for bail jumping and one disorderly conduct misdemeanor. He was sentenced to five years' probation. (Source) and (Source)

The difference between you and me?? I can admit there are people on both sides of the aisle who are racists and would love nothing more than to find ways to tip elections. But you cannot admit that states also try to combat proven voter fraud.

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Response to nolidad (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 04:36 PM

47. Did you even read the material you linked to?

These are not the type of fraud that would be prevented by voter id laws. Voter id laws only stop in person voter impersonation. I urge you to actually read the material you post.

BTW, thanks for the laughs

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #47)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 09:50 PM

68. Ouch.

lol!

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Response to Maya (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:10 AM

73. Voter id laws only stop one form of fraud

The silly conservatives think that if they cry about other forms of fraud they can fool people into supporting GOP voters suppression laws

It is really funny.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:53 AM

72. One person registering under 10-12 names

will be stopped by voter ID. Voting as a dead person will be stopped by voter ID

All the hundreds of thousands of fraudulent registrations with phony addresse3s will be stopped at the polling place with voting ID!

YOu are wrong and just refuse to admit it.

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Response to nolidad (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:12 AM

74. No one is making this argument in the real world

Even Ken Paxton (the corrupt but stupid Texas AG) is not making this claim Thank you for the laughs

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Response to nolidad (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 11:45 PM

111. Voter Id laws does not prevent voter registration and other forms of voter fraud

:large

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Response to nolidad (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:05 PM

96. Wrong, because there is no such animal as "millions of attempts at fraud".

If there was such an animal. your post might make sense. But like Sasquatch, the voter fraud animal cannot be found in significant numbers.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:41 PM

6. Do they not have IDs or something?

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Response to TheyLostTheirForums (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 02:58 PM

41. Getting a Photo ID so you can vote is easy unless youre poor, black, latino or elderly

Here are some facts for the conservatives to ignore or not be able to understand https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html?postshare=8341464046238748&tid=ss_tw

In November, 17 states will have voting restrictions in place for the first time in a presidential election. Eleven of those states will require their residents to show a photo ID. They include swing states such as Wisconsin and states with large African American and Latino populations, such as North Carolina and Texas. On Tuesday, the entire 15-judge U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit in New Orleans is to begin hearing a case regarding the legality of the Texas law, considered to be the most stringent in the country.

Supporters say that everyone should easily be able to get a photo ID and that the requirement is needed to combat voter fraud. But many election experts say that the process for obtaining a photo ID can be far more difficult than it looks for hundreds of thousands of people across the country who do not have the required photo identification cards. Those most likely to be affected are elderly citizens, African Americans, Hispanics and low-income residents.

“A lot of people don’t realize what it takes to obtain an ID without the proper identification and papers,” said Abbie Kamin, a lawyer who has worked with the Campaign Legal Center to help Texans obtain the proper identification to vote. “Many people will give up and not even bother trying to vote.”

A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting. For example, residents can vote with their concealed-carry handgun licenses but not their state-issued student university IDs.

Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.
?uuid=EAT2ZCE3Eea5RFL3sXk9rg
There are some really sad stories of people who spent a great deal of time trying to get a free id only to be turned away because the state want to keep them from voting.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:43 PM

7. How many times are you going to post this OP ?

You have already posted it a gazillion times.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:54 PM

8. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha... oh wait,

you're serious aren't you.

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Response to D26-15 (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 12:18 PM

34. For this thread

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 08:57 PM

9. Answer this question

I live in Michigan and for as long as i can remember 35-40 years it has been state law you must have valid ID on you at all times! If a police officer asks for ID and you do not have it, it is a crime. So when you go to vote you also have to have ID! So the rest is OK until it comes to vote and no ID should be shown?? That is the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my life!!

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Response to Bushmaster330 (Reply #9)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:11 PM

11. Michigan is not a strict voter id law.

Before the Texas Voter Suppression law was found to be discriminatory, Texas required ids but these ids Michigan does not have a strict voter id law https://www.michigandaily.com/news/voter-id-laws

Michigan’s voter identification law — which was passed in 2007 — requires voters to show a form of photo identification prior to voting, but those without ID remain eligible to vote if they sign an affidavit.

In Michigan, if a voter does not possess a form of photo ID, he or she can sign an affidavit of identity verifying his or her identity and will still be eligible to vote. Some states, however, are eliminating the affidavit option.

Republican Gov. Rick Snyder irked Republicans in July when he became the only GOP governor to veto a bill requiring stricter ID laws in the past two years. The bill he shot down would’ve required absentee voters to present a photo ID, a measure proposed by his fellow Republicans in the Michigan state Legislature. He also vetoed a proposal endorsed by Republican Secretary of State Ruth Johnson that would require voters to check a box on their ballots stating they are U.S. citizens.

See http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1633_8716-178123--,00.html

Remember to bring an acceptable form of photo identification to the polls on Election Day. If you don't have photo ID you can still vote (see Voting Without Photo ID below).

Your photo ID does not need to have your address on it. In addition, the name on your identification card may be a shorter form of your name. For example, "Bill" for "William" and "Kathy" for "Katherine" are acceptable.

After showing your photo ID to the poll worker and signing the application, you may cast your ballot.

Voting Without Photo ID

If you do not have photo ID, you can still cast a ballot simply by signing an affidavit. The affidavit can be used by:

Voters who do not have acceptable photo ID
Voters who have photo ID but didn't bring it to the polls
Once you sign the affidavit, you may cast your ballot. It will be counted with all other ballots on Election Day.
This is what is considered a weak voter id law

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:43 PM

13. I guess you are missing the point

It has never been ruled unconstitutional that we must have ID at all times or be charged if we do not have it. But when voting that can not be required, see what i mean?

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Response to Bushmaster330 (Reply #13)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 10:01 PM

18. you might not know, but you're wrong

There is a constitutional prohibition on laws requiring people to carry identification. This was established in the case of Kolender v. Lawson 461 U.S. 352 (1983)

edit: https://www.quora.com/In-Michigan-if-you-are-an-adult-are-you-required-by-law-to-carry-a-form-of-ID

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Response to Bushmaster330 (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:03 AM

23. Id are not inherently bad-here is a study used in several of the cases

Texas has had ids requirements for a while. The issue is that the GOP has selected forms of ids that the poor and groups who tend to voter for Democratic candidates do not have. There are other cheaper forms of identification available to most citizens. The trouble with these forms of identification is that they are easy to get and will not prevent citizens who tend to vote for Democratic candidates from voting. Read the other thread. You can fly without a drivers' license and fill out a Form I9 without these forms of identification.

The forms of identification selected by the GOP for voting are designed to be forms that minorities and poor people are less likely to have and which they are also less likely to have the documents necessary to obtain these forms of identification. Both the Wisconsin and the Penn courts relied on this study as to the discriminatory effect of voter suppression/voter id laws and this study shows that the same voters who lack the required ids also lack the documents necessary to get the required identifications http://www.latinodecisions.com/blog/2014/04/30/latino-decisions-research-critical-to-overturning-wisconsin-voter-id-law/

Professors Matt Barreto (UW) and Gabriel Sanchez (UNM) from Latino Decisions conducted research that proved to be pivotal in the case. The report generated by Barreto and Sanchez, on behalf of the ACLU of Wisconsin, was based on a survey conducted to gauge how many eligible voters in Milwaukee County, WI lack the identification required to vote under the new law, and was introduced as an expert report by the plaintiffs and cited extensively in the judge’s opinion. According to the decision issued by Judge Adelman, the survey by Barreto and Sanchez provided critical evidence that black, Latino and low-income voters had lower rates of possession of valid photo ID. Adelman wrote: “The results of the survey showed that a sizable portion of the population of eligible voters in Milwaukee County do not possess either a qualifying form of ID or the documents needed to obtain a qualifying form of ID. Frank Ex. 600 at 16–17. Moreover, the results showed that Black and Latino eligible voters are less likely than white voters to possess a qualifying form of ID. Specifically, Barreto found that while only 7.3% of eligible white voters lack a qualifying form of ID, 13.2% of eligible African American voters and 14.9% of eligible Latino voters lack a qualifying form of ID. Tr. 304. Accordingly, I conclude that Barreto’s findings, when added to the other evidence in this case, support the conclusion that minorities in Wisconsin are less likely than whites to possess a qualifying ID.”



Beyond current possession of a valid photo ID, the survey by Barreto and Sanchez also investigated whether or not eligible voters in Wisconsin also were in possession of the necessary underlying documents to obtain a valid photo ID in the first place. A critical finding of their expert report was that among those eligible voters who currently lacked a photo ID, a substantial portion also lacked a copy of their official birth certificate or social security card, or other such documents required to obtain even the free state-issued ID card. This additional evidence was cited by Judge Adelman as further proof that blacks and Latinos face additional burdens than do whites. The court ruling stated: “There are additional hurdles that Blacks and Latinos who lack IDs are more likely to have to overcome than whites who lack them. First, as Professor Barreto’s survey indicates, Black and Latino voters who lack a qualifying ID are more likely than white voters to also lack one or more of the underlying documents they would need to obtain a qualifying ID as a first-time applicant.”

Barreto and Sanchez also provided an expert report in Pennsylvania in which a State Court also struck down voter ID in January 2014. In the Pennsylvania ruling, Judge Bernard L. McGinley wrote that he “had a high degree of confidence in Professor Barreto’s survey results and that those results corroborate that hundreds of thousands of voters lack a compliant ID”.....
This study was already quoted by several of the courts who ruled against voter id law. The facts show that the GOP selected forms of id that poor people are less likely to have to try to steal elections. The above study has been relied on by the courts .

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #23)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:20 AM

29. And what kind of ID is it

that specifically is more difficult for poor and minorities to get vs. the general population.

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Response to nolidad (Reply #29)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:39 AM

31. That's my question as well.

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Response to nolidad (Reply #29)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:53 AM

32. One that requires them to provide a birth certificate

Read the study. The courts have read the study which is why these voter suppression laws are being found to be discriminatory,. The gop selected the forms of id that poor people are less likely to have for a reason. The intent was not to stop voter fraud but to put barriers in the way of poor people from voting.

The voting rights attorneys have amassed some great evidence on the reasons and effects of these laws and the courts are using that evidence to strike down these laws. Facts are good things and the courts are looking at the facts in these cases.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #32)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:42 PM

56. One can certainly understand

how someone born within this country 70 or 80 years ago may not have a birth certificate due to poor or non existent record keeping in areas.

At what point will this excuse be retired? Can you tell us when the last person born in the US did not have a birth certificate?

Please explain why poor people specifically have a harder time obtaining an ID. You start out by saying that AA are being disenfranchised and that these laws were designed to suppress their voting and then you expand it to the poor.

Are you saying AA are poor? What about all of those racist republican voting white bitter clingers? Was it republicans intention to suppress their vote as well? Why would they want to suppress the votes of people voting FOR them? You can correct me if mistaken, but don't poor whites vastly outnumber poor AA?

Why are your energies not going to fixing the ID problem that a very small number of people have vs. working to eliminate laws that an exponentially larger number of people obviously want?

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Response to kevlar (Reply #56)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 06:12 PM

58. Here is some more testimony from the Texas voter id trial

I was amazed to find so many conservatives on this board who actually believe that poor people and minorities are second class citizens and that it is both proper and necessary to discriminate against these citizens. Posters who believe that poll taxes are okay and that it is proper to ask a poor person to decide between buying food for their family or paying a poll tax will not like the testimony from the first day of the Texas voter id case. Here a citizen had to decide between paying $42 for a birth certificate to vote or buying food for her family http://www.texastribune.org/2014/09/02/texas-voter-id-case-first-national-test/

In a video deposition, Mississippi-born Sammie Louise Bates, who came to Texas via Chicago in 2011, talked about how she cast a provisional ballot in 2013 because all she had was her Illinois identification card, which she used to buy insurance and open a bank account in Texas and get a library card.

Bates said she couldn’t get her birth certificate from Mississippi in time for the election to get a photo ID that was acceptable, because of the cost: $42.

“I had to put $42 where it was doing the most good,” Bates said. “We couldn’t eat the birth certificate, and we couldn’t pay rent with the birth certificate.”

Beaumont Deputy Fire Chief Calvin Carrier testified about the obstacles his father, an Army paratrooper who served during the Korean War, still has to get proper photo ID to vote.

His father Floyd Carrier’s birth certificate had the wrong name, date of birth and race listed. His father still lacks a proper photo ID to vote.

“He stated to me he couldn’t believe that after serving his country in the war, all the Social Security he’s paid working his entire life, he was denied the right to vote for a simple card,” Carrier said.
Ms Bates had id including a state id card that allowed her to open a bank account. This lady had to decide between food for her family and voting and you can not eat a birth certificate.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #58)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 06:21 PM

59. I can see why you are not a lawyer.

You can't competently discuss anything even in this format.

Oh well, your non response says more than a reply likely would of anyway.

Back to the cut and paste, yes?

What you into today? Comics? Videos? Leftist opinions?

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Response to kevlar (Reply #59)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 06:25 PM

61. Your fear of lawyers, the SPLC and the Brennan Center is amusing

Here is a section from the 4th Circuit opinion on the NC law that is short enough for a layperson to understand

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 06:35 PM

63. Hey, if you cannot answer simple

questions about your stated positions, don't expect your propaganda to be read.

Your attempts at insults were lame from the start, often the subject of ridicule, why repeat them endlessly?

Oops, I asked another question, my bad.

One Day. One ID. One Vote.

Poll tested and Voter approved.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #63)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 10:50 PM

109. Your fear of lawyers, the SPLC and the Brennan Center has prevented you from reading material

The material that has been posted are facts. If you wish to dispute these facts consider reading up on the issues being discussed and using facts

Again, your fear of lawyers is sad

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #109)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 01:18 AM

112. Again,

you discuss nothing.

Lame insults from you are free, plentiful, and also repetitive and without basis in fact.

You have proven repeatedly that facts are not your forte, which makes your posts amusing and irrelevant.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #112)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 09:18 AM

116. Why do facts scare you?

You have yet to post one fact to back up your amusing claims. I love laughing at your posts because they are so fact free that these posts are funny.

Again, we are fortunate to live in a world where facts are important. I have been posting evidence used in the various voter id lawsuits because this evidence and the facts described therein are being used by the courts to strike down voter suppression laws. The fact that you dislike these facts and this evidence is meaningless because the courts are still relying on such facts and evidence.

Keep up the good work of giving me something to laugh at. On a serious note, I am concerned about your fears of the SPLC, the Brennan Center and lawyers.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:05 PM

10. STRICT VOTER IDENTIFICATION LAWS ADVANTAGE WHITES – AND SKEW AMERICAN DEMOCRACY TO THE RIGHT

This study is now being peer reviewed. Voter id law clearly discriminate against minorities which is why the GOP likes these laws http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/brief/strict-voter-identification-laws-advantage-whites-%E2%80%93-and-skew-american-democracy-right

Our findings are clear: strict voter identification laws double or triple existing U.S. racial voting gaps, because they have a negative impact on the turnout of Hispanics, blacks, and Asian Americans, but do not discourage white voters. In general elections, Hispanic turnout is 7.1 points lower in general elections and 5.3 points lower in primaries in states with strict identification laws, compared to turnout in other states. For blacks, the drop is negligible in general elections but a full 4.6 points in primaries. Finally, in states with strict rules, Asian American general election turnout falls by 5.4 points in general elections and by 6.2 points in primaries. Whites are little affected, except for a slight boost in their turnout for primaries.



These findings persist even when we take many other factors into account – including partisanship, demographic characteristics, election contexts, and other laws that encourage or discourage participation. Racial gaps persist even when we limit our analysis to Democrats or track shifts in turnout in the first year after strict rules are implemented.

Do these laws advantage one party over the other? We found little consistent impact in general elections, but clear effects in primaries. In states that institute strict identification laws, the primary turnout gap favoring Republicans more than doubles from 4.3 points to 9.8 points. Likewise, the turnout gap favoring conservatives over liberals goes from 7.7 to 20.4 points.

Distorting American Democracy

In U.S. states with strict voter identification rules, the voices of Latinos, blacks, and Asian American voters become more muted as white voter influence grows. U.S. elections have long had a racial skew in favor of whites – and these recently proliferating laws make the imbalance worse. Furthermore, when the new rules go into effect, the influence of Democrats and liberals wanes compared to the clout of Republicans and conservatives. If courts considering the fate of voter identification laws want to understand their actual impact, the evidence that they distort American democracy is clear and convincing.
Voter id laws work by discriminating and suppressing the vote of minorities which helps the GOP to steal elections

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:20 PM

12. So, whites are somehow magically endowed with the ability to get an ID while other

races can not ?

Nice Fairy Tale.

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Response to Grumpy Pickle (Reply #12)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 12:21 PM

35. Study: Law Discouraged More Than Those Without Voter ID

The above study is consistent with and to a large degree validates the Rice University/Baker Institute study

The sole and only purpose for voter id laws is to suppress the vote and a new study out shows that these laws do suppress the vote. One Congressional seat went to the GOP due to the Texas voter id law according to this study http://www.texastribune.org/2015/08/06/study-law-discouraged-more-those-without-voter-id/

Texas’ strict voter identification requirements kept many would-be voters in a Hispanic-majority congressional district from going to the polls last November — including many who had proper IDs — a new survey shows.

And the state's voter ID law – coupled with lackluster voter education efforts – might have shaped the outcome of a congressional race, the research suggests.

Released on Thursday, the 50th anniversary of the federal Voting Rights Act, the joint Rice University and University of Houston study found that 13 percent of those registered in the 23rd Congressional District and did not vote stayed home, at least partly, because they thought they lacked proper ID under a state law considered the strictest in the nation. And nearly 6 percent did not vote primarily because of the requirements.

But most of those discouraged Texans had the proper documents to vote, says the study, which came one day after a federal appeals court ruled that the four-year-old Texas law has a “discriminatory effect” on Hispanics and African-Americans....

Researchers focused on CD-23 largely because of its demographics and the neck-in-neck congressional race it held. CD-23 is seen as the state's only U.S. House district that's competitive between Republicans and Democrats. Roughly two-thirds of the voting age population is Hispanic.

Just 118,000 voters cast ballots in the race that saw U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, R-San Antonio, edge incumbent Pete Gallego, a Democrat from Alpine. The difference was about 2,400 votes.

Of those who said the state ID law discouraged them from voting, four to five times more said they would have voted for Gallego.

“While the results of this survey do not allow us to conclude that Gallego would have been re-elected in the absence of the voter photo ID law, they do indicate that the law did have a disproportionate impact on his supporters, and therefore may have possibly cost him the election,” the study said.
The Rice/Baker institute did a good job here. Voter id laws depress voter turnout and it appears that Pete Gallego is not in Congress now due to this law.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:09 AM

19. Yyyyyeah.... but....


All you'd have to do to get that differential to disappear is convince minorities to start taking voting seriously to get ID and vote. It's not really a problem with the ID laws, is it? It's a problem with political disengagement.

It's a little peculiar to say that a law "disadvantages" some demographic over another in comparison with other when the only way the law actually can result in disproportionate representation emerges from the "disadvantaged" demographic not bothering to cooperate with the law.

Its kind of up to them, ya know? If they select themselves out, that's not racism. That's self-selection.

Rules that are the same for everyone not being followed properly by a demographic isn't discriminatory. It's just demographically entrentched apathy.

Nothing anyone can do about that.

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Response to Sibelian the White (Reply #19)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 12:23 PM

36. How racism underlies voter ID laws: the academics weigh in

Here are some facts for the silly but sad conservatives to ignore http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-racism-underlying-voter-id-20141020-column.html

Are voting laws requiring photo IDs inherently racially discriminatory, as Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg maintained in her blistering dissent Saturday morning?

A team of politician scientists from Appalachian State, Texas Tech and the University of Florida took on that question for an article just published in Political Research Quarterly (h/t: Justin Levitt). Their conclusion is that the claims of proponents that they're just upholding the principle of ballot integrity can be discounted; the photo ID laws aim to disenfranchise Democratic voters; they cite findings that the raised cost of voting imposed by photo ID requires "falls overwhelmingly on minorities." In other words, the answer is yes....

What happened? The GOP, they say, recognized that its homogeneous white, male, older and Southern electoral base was competing against "a racially and ethnically diverse, younger, secular, liberal, and Northern-based Democratic Party." Moreover, the demographic changes bringing more Latinos, African Americans, and Asians into the voting population were working strongly against the GOP and strengthening the Democratic coalition.

The GOP could have evolved to meet these voters on their turf, but chose not to. "Rather than altering issue positions as a means to attract new supporters, the GOP has turned to restrictive voter ID laws to disproportionately deter the participation of current Democratic Party supporters," the researchers write.

In other words, appealing to a racial coalition was beyond the GOP's capacity, so the party chose instead to disenfranchise the members of that coalition.

The researchers acknowledge that playing with voter turnout is traditional electoral strategy in both parties. But that doesn't make suppression equivalent to getting out the vote. Voting is a constitutional right, and artificially restricting it is unconstitutional (as some federal judges have ruled).
Voter id laws are based on GOP wanting to keep minorities and the poor from voting

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #36)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 01:09 PM

38. Mmm-hm, and even they were, which would be utterly stupid...


They only way one can actually arrive at these laws resulting in voter suppression is if the voters behave like idiotic children that can't be bothered cooperating with the law.

It makes no difference whatsoever how many "academic" reviews of this subject you post, the situation is perfectly straightforward, either you're saying poor WHITE PEOPLE are somehow cleverer than poor BLACK PEOPLE at doing ordinary things like acquiring ID or you're not.

What does this "raised cost" actually amount to in real terms?

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Response to Sibelian the White (Reply #38)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 03:08 PM

44. Voter Suppression Is More Effective Than You Know

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #44)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 09:59 PM

69. Tha fact that you cannot in any way respond

to posters is amusing.

If you did you would have to defend lies, obfuscation, misdirection, and face inconvenient facts.

Must suck to be relegated to pounding the table with your fist, if you get the reference.


One day. One ID. One Vote.

Poll Tested, Voter Approved.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:16 AM

76. Again the fact that you do not understand the responses may be due to your fear of lawyers

If you want to be taken seriously then read up on the issues and use some facts in these discussions.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #76)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:19 AM

79. If you want to be taken seriously

join the discussion.

Facts wouldn't hurt, but you will have to do better at identifying the factual, so far you fail more often than not.

What points that other posters have made in reply have you responded to?

Comics, cut and pastes of others opinions, and videos don't count here in the real world.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #79)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 02:27 PM

80. Have you considered reading up on the issues and attempting to understand what is being discussed?

You have yet to present any facts on these threads. Your fear of lawyers and the Brennan Center may be hampering your efforts. I am citing evidence and facts taken from the various voter id cases that have gone to trial. Here is a piece from Eugene Robinson who is not a lawyer and so should not scare you too much http://www.albanyherald.com/opinion/columnists/syndicated_columnists/eugene-robinson-the-shameful-spectacle-of-denying-people-their-vote/article_286c053a-6303-53e9-94ca-bf285cdf78f1.html

The ostensible reason for these laws is to solve a problem that doesn’t exist — voter fraud by impersonation. Four years ago, you may recall, a Republican Pennsylvania legislator let slip the real reason for his state’s new voter ID law: to “allow” Mitt Romney to win the state. In the end, he didn’t. But Republicans tried mightily to discourage minorities, most of whom vote Democratic, from going to the polls.

Now, thanks to documents that surfaced in a lawsuit, we have an even clearer and more egregious example of attempted disenfranchisement, this time in North Carolina. As The Washington Post reported, the documents show “that North Carolina GOP leaders launched a meticulous and coordinated effort to deter black voters, who overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.”...

Federal courts have also struck down new voting restrictions in Texas, Wisconsin, Kansas and North Dakota. In all cases, the laws were enacted by Republican legislatures and governors. And in all cases, discriminatory impact on minority voters is at issue.

GOP officials defend these laws as necessary to protect the sanctity of the voting process. The judge in the Wisconsin case, however, found that “a preoccupation with mostly phantom election fraud leads to real incidents of disenfranchisement.”

Some might argue that these laws are a matter of politics, not racism — that Republicans may be trying to discourage Democrats from the polls, but are not targeting minorities as such. That’s a distinction without a difference, however, given the GOP’s estrangement from minority voters.

And the North Carolina example clearly puts to rest any notion that these restrictions are colorblind. The law began as a simple 16-page bill mandating voter IDs. But in June 2013, while the legislation was still being worked on, the Supreme Court struck down Section 5 of the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which compelled Southern states with a history of voter discrimination to obtain Justice Department approval before making changes in election laws.
Facts are good things and the facts being presented in these lawsuits are more than sufficient to justify striking down these voter suppression laws. If you dislike these facts, then read up on the issues and try to prove these facts to be false. The GOP governors and Attorney generals in these states have failed but you are welcomed to try.

Again, if you want to dispute the facts presented you will need to actually read up on the concepts being discussed and present some facts. Ignoring facts that you disagree with is amusing but has not worked in the real world. Again, the GOP governors and attorney generals in these cases failed to present facts to back up their claims and so the courts had no trouble ruling correctly.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #80)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 03:48 PM

87. You can cut and paste

the same dozen words arranged however you like.

Until you can carry on a discussion you are just propagandistic noise, A non-entity in this digital realm.

One Day. One ID. One Vote.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #87)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 04:07 PM

88. Have you considered seeing someone about your fear of lawyers and the Brennan Center?

Again, you can not complain about discussion or debate when your posts are fact free and lack any logic or arguments. You do not like the evidence presented in the various trials but you have nothing to counter such evidence.

I find your posts to be amusing but fact free. Again, if you want to have a discussion then attempt to read up on the issues and present facts to support your amusing claims.

Thank you for the laughs

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #44)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 05:57 AM

70. You really can't answer a single point, can you?


All you can do is repeat the same stuff over and over again.

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Response to Sibelian the White (Reply #70)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:13 AM

75. The fact that you do understand the answers do not mean that I did not answer the question

Why don't you read up on the facts and attempt to back your claims up with facts

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #75)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 05:35 PM

89. That's ridiculous, isn't it?


Ridiculous on the face of it.

There's nothing in thee facts to dispute. It's your attribution of the significance of those facts that requires closer examination.

The cost, in real terms, of acquiring photo ID, in plain English, if you please.

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Response to Sibelian the White (Reply #89)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 05:40 PM

91. Read the material presented or have someone read it and explain it to you

The material that you are silly enough to object to consists mainly of evidence used in the various voter id cases where the courts found that the GOP voter suppression laws were discriminatory and void. The fact that you do not understand such evidence is not my problem. We are fortunate that it is the courts who are making this determination.

Just because do not like or do not understand the facts presented does not mean that these facts are not true. The courts have had no trouble understanding these materials which is why these laws are being found to be discriminatory. The idiot governors and attorney generals of Texas, Wisconsin, North Carolina, and Penn. could not dispute these facts which is why the courts have been ruling against these laws.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #91)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 05:47 PM

92. The cost.


In Money.

If. You. Please.

Talk sense, eh?

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Response to Sibelian the White (Reply #92)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 05:57 PM

93. Which cost do you want to talk about?

In addition to legal fees being incurred to defend these voter suppression laws, there are a ton of costs imposed on the states. The Brennan Center has a good study that is a little out of date on this. The legal fees being paid to defend these laws are not insignificant and will be increasing due to the fact that Texas and other states will have to pay the legal fees of the voting rights attorneys suing these states.

As for costs of ids, there is a Harvard study and testimony in the voter id trials that I can post. Here is the link to the Harvard Study http://www.discussionist.com/1015112224 There was a ton of good evidence in the various trials that I can provide you.

Again, the facts being cited on this thread have been largely from the evidence admitted in the various trials in that such evidence is very compelling and has worked with the courts. The fact that you want to second guess the rulings of the courts is amusing to me

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Response to Sibelian the White (Reply #38)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 02:35 PM

81. Without conservative Supreme Court majority, voter-law challengers make gains

I have been citing material that includes the evidence used in the various lawsuits. The trial lawyers in these cases have done a great job of developing the facts and evidence to show that these GOP voter suppression laws discriminate against poor voters. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/without-conservative-supreme-court-majority-voter-law-challengers-make-gains/2016/09/05/5ac74948-704e-11e6-9705-23e51a2f424d_story.html

But since then, lower courts have become more critical. They have increasingly looked more closely at the intent of legislators changing election laws and whether the changes were made to disadvantage minority voters.

“I think the winds are changing with regards to voting rights in the courts,” J. Gerald Hebert, executive director of the Campaign Legal Center, said in a recent interview.

After the Supreme Court approved Indiana’s voter-identification law six years ago, Hebert said, most state laws requiring a photo ID were thought to be safe from challenge. The Indiana law, unlike those in some subsequent cases, was not shown to affect racial groups differently.

In the recent cases, however, plaintiffs have been able to convince judges that some state laws were designed to discourage turnout by some groups or did not contain accommodations for those who lacked documentation, such as birth certificates, needed to get the photo IDs.

The judges who ruled that Texas and North Carolina could not implement their laws, for instance, said the problem was not requiring a photo ID; the problem was that the states required IDs that were most likely to be held by whites — such as driver’s licenses and passports — and disallowed those that African Americans were more likely to possess, such as state government employment IDs or college identification cards.

Sherrilyn Ifill, head of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, said in a recent interview that trials, with expert witnesses and voluminous records, were instrumental in rebutting the states’ rationale that the laws were needed to combat voter fraud and restore voters’ confidence in the election.

“We always believed if we had a chance to try these cases, we could show that the rhetoric did not match the record,” Ifill said.
Gerry is one of the main lawyers in the Texas voter id case.

Facts and evidence are being presented in these cases and the results have been the striking down of these laws. You may not like these facts but that does not matter. The governors and attorney generals of Texas, North Carolina and other states dislike these facts but were unable to present evidence to show a real need for these voter suppression laws.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #81)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 05:37 PM

90. Mm-hm.


How much does it cost to get a license or a passport?

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:22 AM

30. How do they discriminate.

If a law was in effect say in 2013- someone has had 3 years to get their act together to get whatever is needed to register. I don't think they need to go through the hoops one has to go through to buy a home.

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Response to nolidad (Reply #30)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 12:24 PM

37. The Republican Plot To Steal The 2016 Election

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:51 AM

71. Gerrymandered districts

are just as much left as right.

And a blog site is not compelling. In light of the evidence of rampant voter fraud.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:53 PM

14. because i feel #5 is best response i've seen on this site

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:26 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Voter id laws are targeted to keep African Americans from voting
http://www.discussionist.com/1015992099

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is uncivil, off-topic, offensive, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The idea that requiring an id to vote is something black people are worse at than other races is RACIST. ALL races are equally capable of obtaining ID.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of Discussionist members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:41 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is not racist to point out that a voting requirement disproportionately burdens a certain race. For example, if there was a requirement that to register to vote you can not own any shirt that has a design on it by Guy Harvey, many many white males would, rightly, be upset about being excluded from the voter roles. As we know, the right to vote should be completely separated from whether one possess good taste and while the rule would be, supposedly, race neutral it would almost exclusively affect white males. Pointing that out is not racist.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to jimiray (Reply #14)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:56 PM

16. Why Thank You

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Response to NotWhoUThink (Reply #16)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:59 PM

17. your welcome

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Response to jimiray (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:05 AM

24. Juror 5 did a good job

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Sun Sep 4, 2016, 09:54 PM

15. Opposition to

requiring that only the eligible vote is due to the desire to keep all avenues of fraud open to the biggest perpetrators.

Please note who is in opposition to what every other industrialized nation on earth has figured out.

Post some more opinion pieces while you rail on about facts and fail to ever have a discussion here.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:05 AM

25. Really?

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:27 AM

20. LMPV, Your Continued Insistence That

People Of Color are too stupid to figure out how to obtain voter ID cards is insulting and demeaning to the very group you claim to be "helping."

Those of us who want election integrity support voter ID cards for three reasons:

1. To prevent dead people from voting.
2. To prevent illegal aliens from voting.
3. To prevent legitimate voters from voting more than once.

We do not want to prevent any legitimate voters, or group of voters, from casting a ballot.

That is the truth and you know it as well as I do.

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Response to Bubba (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 08:41 AM

22. Well said.

This whole issue feels like another false cry of racism from the left to further their goals.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #22)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:14 AM

28. Voter Fraud Exists. Republican Restrictions Won’t Stop It.

Again it is hard to take the posts of the conservatives seriously when they complain about voter fraud given theat they want to regulate a form of voter fraud that does not exist but will not regulate a form of voter fraud that does exist. Voter fraud does exist but GOP politicians will never stop this form of voter fraud http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/01/voter_fraud_exists_through_absentee_ballots_but_republicans_won_t_stop_it.html

The Washington Post and News21 published a thorough analysis on Thursday of alleged voter fraud cases over the past four years in Arizona, Ohio, Georgia, Texas, and Kansas—five states where Republican politicians have argued that voting restrictions are necessary to prevent fraud. Predictably, the study confirmed the academic consensus that in-person voter fraud is simply not a problem: In none of these states over the past four years has a single person been caught impersonating another voter in order to cast an illegitimate ballot.

So much for in-person voter fraud. But does that mean voter fraud doesn’t exist at all? No. Voter fraud does happen—but it almost never occurs at the polls. Instead, as election law expert and occasional Slate contributor Rick Hasen has explained, voter fraud occurs through absentee ballots. The vast majority of voter fraud prosecutions touted by conservative groups like the Heritage Foundation involve absentee ballots that were illegally cast. And the only voting fraud schemes with the potential to actually swing elections involved mail-in ballots, not impersonation at the polls. (This makes sense: It’s much easier to forge a signature, impersonate a voter, or buy a vote in the privacy of one’s home than it is in a voting booth at the polls.)

This distinction is critically important because Republican proposals ostensibly designed to eliminate voter fraud universally target in-person fraud. GOP-sponsored voting restrictions, like the North Carolina law recently ruled unconstitutional and blocked by the Supreme Court, roll back early (in-person) voting and create draconian voter ID requirements. But all evidence suggests these measures do absolutely nothing to prevent voter fraud: They are purportedly designed to thwart voter impersonation, which, again, is virtually nonexistent. None of North Carolina’s restrictions—or any of the restrictions recently pushed through Republican-dominated legislatures—would stop mail-in ballot fraud.

If Republicans were truly serious about eradicating voter fraud, they would severely restrict absentee voting, permitting it only when voters have a good excuse, like illness. Why don’t they do so? Because absentee ballots are widely considered to favor Republicans, just as early, in-person voting is typically viewed as favoring Democrats. Republicans don’t want to restrict a voting method that boosts their chances of winning, even though that method leaves more room for fraud. (Mail-in ballot fraud is still relatively rare, but it isn’t as imaginary as in-person fraud.) Instead, GOP restrictions suppress early in-person voting and Election Day voting, disproportionately and intentionally burdening the minorities who traditionally support Democrats—without stopping any fraud in the process.
Conservatives are lying when they claim to care about voter fraud. There is no in person voter impersonation but there is a ton of absentee ballot fraud. Conservative really do not care about voter fraud or these conservatives would want to regulate a form of voter fraud that exists instead of trying to regulate a form of voter fraud that does not exist

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Response to Bubba (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:09 AM

27. If you are so opposed to voter fraud, then explain why absentee ballot fraud is okay???

Again, there is no proof of any in person voter impersonation. There is proof of multiple voting by use of absentee balloting but your own party is fine with this type of fraud. There are many cases of vote by mail fraud that the GOP will not regulate. First, it is clear that there are far more documented examples of voter fraud committed by absentee ballot or vote by mail schemes. f you want to learn some facts, read the opinions from the Penn. and Wisconsin voter id/voter suppression cases. http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed

There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than any other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases of registration fraud. A required photo ID at the polls would not have prevented these cases. “The one issue I think is potentially important, though more or less ignored, is the overuse of absentee balloting, which provides far more opportunity for fraud and intimidation than on-site voter fraud,” said Daniel Lowenstein, a UCLA School of Law professor.
This conclusion is not new. Back in 2005, a presidential commission on voting chaired by Jimmy Carter and James Baker came to the conclusion that vote by mail/absentee ballot fraud is the largest source of potential voter fraud. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/us/politics/as-more-vote-by-mail-faulty-ballots-could-impact-elections.html?pagewanted=all

There is a bipartisan consensus that voting by mail, whatever its impact, is more easily abused than other forms. In a 2005 report signed by President Jimmy Carter and James A. Baker III, who served as secretary of state under the first President George Bush, the Commission on Federal Election Reform concluded, “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud.”

On the most basic level, absentee voting replaces the oversight that exists at polling places with something akin to an honor system.

“Absentee voting is to voting in person,” Judge Richard A. Posner of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit has written, “as a take-home exam is to a proctored one.”
If you look at this board on the other voter id threads, you will see that your fellow conservatives have cited a number of cases of vote by mail or absentee ballot fraud. Here is a very good article from Prof. Hasen on vote by mail and absentee ballot fraud compared to in person voter impersonation fraud. http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/a-dtente-before-the-election/

Does voter fraud sometimes happen in the United States? You bet. But we are dealing with this relatively small problem in an irrational and partisan way.

In a 1996 primary in Dodge County, Ga., rival camps for county commissioner set up tables at opposite ends of the county courthouse and bid for voters’ absentee votes in what a county magistrate later called a “flea market” atmosphere.

Recently, officials in Cudahy, Calif., admitted intercepting absentee ballots and throwing out ballots not cast for incumbents. Every year we see convictions for absentee ballot fraud. Not a lot, but enough to know it’s a problem.

So you might think that Republicans, newly obsessed with voter fraud, would call for eliminating absentee ballots, or at least requiring that voters who use them show some need, like a medical condition. But Republicans don’t talk much about reining in absentee ballots. Eliminating them would inconvenience some voters and would likely cut back on voting by loyal Republican voters, especially elderly and military voters.

If only Republicans would apply that same logic to voter-identification laws. The only kind of fraud such ID laws prevent is impersonation: a person registered under a false name or claiming to be someone else on the voter rolls.

I have not found a single election over the last few decades in which impersonation fraud had the slightest chance of changing an election outcome — unlike absentee-ballot fraud, which changes election outcomes regularly. (Let’s face it: impersonation fraud is an exceedingly dumb way to try to steal an election.)
Prof. Hasen is a true expert in this area.

Since you are worried about multiple votes, here is a republican who stole over 280 votes,http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/09/jack-villamaino-voter-fraud_n_3728456.html

In the midst of his 2012 GOP primary campaign for a Massachusetts state House seat, Jack Villamaino changed the party affiliation of nearly 300 people in his town of East Longmeadow. Days later, the same number of absentee ballot requests were dropped off at the town clerk’s office, a list that was almost a “name-for-name match” for those whose registration information Villamaino had altered.

Earlier this week, Villamaino pleaded guilty to felony charges of stealing ballots and changing the party affiliation of 280 Democrats during his campaign for state representative. A judge sentenced him to a year in jail, only four months of which he'll be forced to serve behind bars.
It is hard to take claims of voter fraud seriously from republicans when the GOP does not care to regulate the most common form of voter fraud. Again, the GOP will not put any restrictions on absentee ballots/vote by mail because as noted by Prof. Hasen

But Republicans don’t talk much about reining in absentee ballots. Eliminating them would inconvenience some voters and would likely cut back on voting by loyal Republican voters, especially elderly and military voters.
The GOP does not care about voter fraud and will never regulate the one type of voter fraud that really exists. It is silly to pretend that the GOP will take any actions here. I prefer to live in the real world where facts matter.

The main way that dead people vote is by absentee ballot fraud which is a type of fraud that the GOP will never regulate. It is hard to take the so-called concerns of the conservatives on this board seriously when they approve of one form of voter fraud that actually exists but want to regulate a form of voter fraud that does not exist

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 11:08 AM

26. You're saying that African-Americans are too inept to acquire IDs.

That's racist.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #26)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 01:18 PM

39. She knows. Her real motive is to clear a path for illegal immigrants to vote.

She just pushes propaganda on the backs of blacks. Typicall rat tactic.

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Response to Mr.Solis (Reply #39)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 03:00 PM

42. Ex-staffer: Wisconsin GOP intended ID law to disenfranchise Dems

Do you tire of being wrong?

Here are some facts for the silly and poorly informed conservatives to ignore or not be able to understand http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ex-staffer-wisconsin-gop-intended-id-law-disenfranchise-dems

Todd Allbaugh, who served as chief of staff to a Republican state senator, said in an interview Wednesday that at a closed-door caucus meeting in 2011, GOP lawmakers openly discussed how the the ID bill would hit minorities and students hardest.

“One of the senators said, ‘We need to think about the ramifications here, what this means, particularly in Milwaukee and college campuses across the state, what that could mean for us,’” said Allbaugh.

“What I’m interested in here is winning, and we need to use the opportunity, because if Democrats had the power to do it to us, they’d do it,” another senator said, according to Allbaugh.

“I was in the room when this thing was conceived and birthed,” Allbaugh added. “Some bills work differently in reality than they were intended. This one worked exactly as intended.”,,,,

Thursday morning, a federal court heard arguments from the ACLU and others who are seeking to have the law’s ID requirements softened. An earlier challenge to the law was rejected by a federal appeals court.
The sole and only reason for this law is to steal elections. These facts are just in time for two different lawsuits attacking the Wisconsin voter id law.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #42)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:16 AM

77. Could you highlight the facts

that matter here?

What you highlighted is hearsay and opinion, not fact.

Typical.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #77)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 09:17 AM

78. The GOP adopted these voters suppression laws to steal elctions

These voter suppressioin laws have nothing to do with voter fraud

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #26)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 03:02 PM

43. Republicans keep admitting that voter ID helps them win, for some reason

The GOP's admissions here are great for the upcoming lawsuits https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/07/republicans-should-really-stop-admitting-that-voter-id-helps-them-win/

Assisting Democrats in this argument that it's all a partisan power grab? A handful of unhelpful Republicans who have suggested in recent years that voter ID does indeed help the GOP — perhaps so much that it would put them over the top in blue-leaning swing states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

Freshman Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-Wis.) became the latest to stumble into this territory this week, including voter ID as part of his case for why Republicans could win Wisconsin in the general election for the first time since 1984.

"I think Hillary Clinton is about the weakest candidate the Democrats have ever put up," Grothman said, before volunteering the following: "And now we have photo ID, and I think photo ID is going to make a little bit of a difference as well."

It wasn't the first time, though, that Grothman has suggested as much. Back in 2012, when he was a state senator, he also predicted voter ID could have helped Mitt Romney win his state. Asked if it could make the difference in a close race, Grothman agreed that it could.

"Yes, right," he said, according to clip posted by the liberal ThinkProgress. "I think we believe that, insofar as there are inappropriate things, people who vote inappropriately are more likely to vote Democrat."

Perhaps the most well-publicized example of this belongs to then-Pennsylvania state House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R), who said even more clearly in a 2012 speech that voter ID would help Romney carry his state.

"Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: done," Turzai said while listing his legislature's accomplishments.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:36 PM

55. Voter ID prevents everyone from cheating.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #55)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:50 PM

57. No they do not

There is no in person voter impersonation fraud out there. The courts are rejecting these laws because one does not restrict a fundamental right without evidence of a problem. Just like the lies used to justify the Texas Targeted Regulation of Abortion Provider law, the GOP is lying about the need for voter id laws. The courts are catching on these lies http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/08/why_courts_are_striking_down_voting_rights_restrictions_right_now.html

If there is a lesson in July’s voting rights revolution—six rulings in two weeks that invalidated key provisions of five states’ restrictive voting laws—it is this: The judges are fed up.

They are fed up with being treated like dolts by Republican legislators who lie through their teeth about the intent of draconian voting restrictions. They are fed up with brazen efforts to diminish minorities’ voting power by targeting and eliminating their preferred voting methods. And most of all, they are fed up with the pretext: The shameless insistence by GOP legislators that these explicitly partisan, outwardly race-based voting laws serve any purpose other than helping Republican legislators entrench their own political power.

For years, judges across the country have gritted their teeth and bought into these flagrant fictions. The explosion of rulings vindicating voting rights last month, however, sent a stark message to legislators in Wisconsin, Texas, North Carolina, Michigan, Kansas, and beyond: We are done pretending to believe your bunk. And while the judges clearly took their cue from the Supreme Court, the decision that appears to have freed them from accepting legislative lies doesn’t deal with voting rights at all. It is, rather, Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt—an abortion case that is really also about the judiciary’s responsibility to reject legislators’ fraudulent pretenses when a state curbs constitutional rights.....

Not every judge to crush a voting restriction this July cited Whole Woman’s Health—but the spirit of the case, its skeptical view of legislative findings seemingly unmoored from reality, lingers behind every decision. So, too, does the Supreme Court’s current deadlock, a 4–4 ideological split that incentivizes pro-voter decisions, at least among circuit courts. The conservatives on the Supreme Court may hate these rulings, but they likely can’t pick up a fifth vote to reverse them. Frozen in a stalemate, the justices have little reason even to hear these cases in the first place. So lower courts are emboldened to issue rulings they know won’t be overturned.
The SCOTUS decision in the Texas TRAP law case has open the floodgates to rulings by numerous courts who are no longer willing to accept the lies by the GOP that voter id laws are needed to stop a form of voter fraud that does not exist in the real world

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #57)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 08:54 PM

66. You keep saying it doesn't happen but you have no proof that it doesn't happen.

Without positive identification of each voter it is impossible or extremely difficult to detect.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #66)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 09:10 AM

115. We are fortunate to live in the real world where evidence is required

One does not restrict a fundamental right judge because of made up fears that have no basis in reality. The Attorney Generals in a number of state have looked long and hard for this type of fraud and could not find it https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

Those Who Publicly Argue Voter Fraud is Rampant Have Found Scant Evidence of it When They Go Looking for It

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a longtime proponent of voter suppression efforts, argued before state lawmakers that his office needed special power to prosecute voter fraud, because he knew of 100 such cases in his state. After being granted these powers, he has brought six such cases, of which only four have been successful. The secretary has also testified about his review of 84 million votes cast in 22 states, which yielded 14 instances of fraud referred for prosecution, which amounts to a 0.00000017 percent fraud rate.

Texas lawmakers purported to pass its strict photo ID law to protect against voter fraud. Yet the chief law enforcement official in the state responsible for such prosecutions knew of only one conviction and one guilty plea that involved in-person voter fraud in all Texas elections from 2002 through 2014.

A specialized United States Department of Justice unit formed with the goal of finding instances of federal election fraud examined the 2002 and 2004 federal elections, and were able to prove that 0.00000013 percent of ballots cast were fraudulent. There was no evidence that any of these incidents involved in-person impersonation fraud.
The verdict is in from every corner that voter fraud is sufficiently rare that it simply could not and does not happen at the rate even approaching that which would be required to “rig” an election. Electoral integrity is key to our democracy, and politicians who genuinely care about protecting our elections should focus not on phantom fraud concerns, but on those abuses that actually threaten election security.
One does not restrict a fundamental right just to make silly people feel better about a made up claim.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #115)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 10:06 AM

118. The proper logical conclusion to draw from an absence of information is not that something...

...does not exist, rather that its existence is unknown and that more information is needed to prove or to rule out its existence.

I believe the only purpose of blocking voter ID is to maintain uncertainty so that people like you can brow-beat logically challenged people with the kinds of snow jobs you keep posting.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #118)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 03:26 PM

119. Do you tire of being wrong?

The GOP is the party of voter suppression and the sole and only reason for voter id laws is to steal elections by suppressing the vote















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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #119)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 03:29 PM

121. Nothing in your post refutes the basic logic of mine.

Not even close.

Why do you think black people are inept?

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #66)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 03:27 PM

120. The real voter fraud

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #66)

Wed Sep 21, 2016, 01:39 PM

126. We do not take away the right to vote just to make silly people happy

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 06:44 AM

113. as soon as someone attempts to vote on a false registratoin

that is voter impersonation fraud! They have detected several million fraudulent registrations, how many have gotten through the cracks????

Do you think the goal of voter registration fraud is to just to get fraudulent registrations?? or do you thknk it is to get people to vote as someon who they are not- you know voter impersonation???

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Response to nolidad (Reply #113)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 09:06 AM

114. Read the material on this thread

Voter id law do not help or stop or help on voter registration fraud. Ken Paxton, the rather stupid AG in Texas, is not dumb enough to make this claim. Texas has pursued voter registration fraud but did use this rather sad and wrong claim in the Texas voter id case http://www.chron.com/opinion/editorials/article/Voter-fraud-What-fraud-5731949.php

I am a deputy voter registrar and have been an election judge. When you register to vote, you have to provide your drivers licence number or social security number which is verified by the county office. If these numbers do not match id, then all first time voters have to provide id before they vote https://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

As a registered voter, I thought I always had to supply some form of ID during an election.

Not quite. Per federal law, first-time voters who registered by mail must present a photo ID or copy of a current bill or bank statement. Some states generally advise voters bring some form of photo ID. But prior to the 2006 election, no state ever required a voter to produce a government-issued photo ID as a condition to voting. Indiana in 2006 became the first state to enact a strict photo ID law, a law that was upheld two years later by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Again read the material or have someone read the material and explain it to you. Voter id laws do stop voter registration fraud and the current law already works.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #114)

Fri Sep 9, 2016, 04:48 PM

122. So we went from the Carolinas to Texas now?

I do not know the procedures for all 50 states. But I do know this. When voter registration fraud takes place- it is for the purpose of performing in person voter fraud. People do not register false names just to have lots of names and do nothing with them! They are going to seek to use those false names to vote with them! That is in person fraud! Maybe it doesn't happen in Texas often. I have linked to states where tens of thousands of names were caught. How many got through? Many states have mail in registration, mot or voter laws and other non verifiable methods of registering to vote! Makes for a ripe climate for in person voter fraud if many register false names!

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #55)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 06:26 PM

62. Here is a section from the 4th Circuit opinion

This passage should be short enough and clear enough for a layperson to understand

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #62)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 08:58 PM

67. That is far from the last word on the subject. The fact that one state may have implemented...

...voter ID for racist reasons - with the assumption that minority voters are too inept to get ID - doesn't mean it's the only reason for requiring ID.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #55)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 10:54 PM

110. From the American Civil Rights Union-the only purpose of these voter suppression laws is to cheat

:large

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #110)

Wed Sep 7, 2016, 09:57 AM

117. Nice unbiased source.

Not.

And once again the underlying assumption that minority people are less capable than Caucasians of acquiring ID.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 01:49 PM

40. I guess that's why Canada does it. They must not want miniorities to vote. n/t

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:08 PM

51. So they only want to surpress the minority vote a little then? Nt

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #51)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:18 PM

53. It is the GOP that is trying to steal elections

Canada does not have the same type of voter id laws that are being missued by the GOP to steal elections Read the material posted

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #53)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:24 PM

54. But I've been assured over and over that voter ID laws are ONLY done to suppress minority votes.

Why does Canada want to suppress minority turnout?

Either that, or what kind of voter ID laws could they US adopt that wouldn't be racist?

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #54)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 06:23 PM

60. Read the material on this thread

Canada does not have the same type of voter id laws as the ones being used by the GOP. Either read the material on this thread or have someone read it and explain it to you

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #60)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 07:36 PM

64. I've read it, just like the similar posts from the last year or so about the same topic.

Each time, it says that voter ID laws are instituted to combat the non-existent problem of voter fraud. That the "real" reason they are instituted is to make it harder for minorities to vote, because it's harder for minorities to get the proper identification.

In Canada, the big reason they implemented the voting ID system is to combat voter fraud (which we know doesn't really exist). And since we know it's harder for minorities to get the proper ID, Canada's system should already be racist. Since their ID requirements are lower than US requirement, you can say they're a milder form of racism, but racism nonetheless (otherwise, why have a law to combat a non-existent problem). I'd think given what seems to be your position on all of this, you'd simply come out and say Canada's system is racist too, and move on, but you seem reluctant to do that.

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #64)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 02:38 PM

82. Read the materials posted on this thread

Canada has not adopted a strict voter id law. One can vote in Canada with utility bills and similar forms of id. Your claims here are simply false in that Canada has not adopted a strict voter id law. If Canada had adopted such a law, then the current PM may not have been elected.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #82)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 02:42 PM

83. If voter fraud is a non-existent problem, why do they have ANY requirements for ID?

As you (and others) have explained, the only reason to require any id is allegedly to prevent a non-existent problem, but is really to suppress the minority vote.

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Response to DavesNotHere (Reply #83)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 03:23 PM

85. No one opposes reasonable id-look at the Texas Democratic Party platform on this issue

Id are are okay so long as they are available to everyone without costs. Here is the the Texas Democratic Party Platform is very clear on this issue http://www.txdemocrats.org/pdf/2014-Platform.pdf

FAIR VOTER I.D. REQUIREMENTS

Texas Democrats believe voters should show identification to vote, as they have for more than 20 years. While many Texans can easily reach into their wallet and produce a Texas driver’s license, gun license, military I.D., or U.S. Passport to qualify to vote under the SB 14 law, many other U.S. citizens eligible to vote in Texas do not have one of the limited types of I.D. required under the SB 14 voter photo I.D. law:

 18 percent of elderly citizens.
 15 percent of voters earning less than $35,000.
 18 percent of citizens aged 18-24 do not have an I.D. with their current address and name.
 10 percent of voters with disabilities.
 25 percent of African-Americans
 Hispanic citizens are between 46% to 120% more likely not to have one of the SB14 I.D.’s

We oppose any law that could make it more difficult for a qualified citizen to exercise their right to vote. Allegations of in-person voter impersonation fraud get big headlines. What does not get headlines is the fact that nearly all allegations of voter fraud turn out to be clerical errors, data matching mistakes, or misunderstandings. In reality, voter impersonation fraud is extremely rare. Texas Democrats call for the return of sensible voter I.D. requirements that have long given Texas fair and honest elections:

 Texas Voter Registration Certificate;
 A driver’s license or personal identification card issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety or similar documents from other states;
 A form of identification containing a photograph that establishes a person’s identity (such as an employee or student identification card);
 A birth certificate or other document confirming birth that is admissible in a court of law and establishes a person’s identity;
 United States citizenship papers;
 A United States passport;
 Official mail addressed to the person by name from a governmental agency;
 A copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the voter; or
 Any other form of identification presented by the Secretary of State’s office

This the official party platform of the Texas Democratic Party and I agree with this position. I am amused that the recent ruling in the Texas voter id case has resulted in voters being able to vote with even more forms of id than were permitted under the old law. For example, one can vote now with out of state drivers licenses Before the SB 14, one could vote using a number of forms of ids including voter registration cards. This victory has expanded the number of forms of id that can be used including out of state drivers licenses and expired voter registration certificates http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/id/acceptable-forms-of-ID.pdf

Examples of Other Government Documents:
– Driver’s licenses from other states
– ID cards issued by federally recognized Native
American tribes.
– DPS Receipts (without a photo)
– Expired voter registration certificates
– Expired Texas DPS-issued driver licenses or personal ID
cards (over 4 years).

I have served as an election judge at least once every cycle to make sure that I know what is going on. The forms of ids on this list were not on the approved list before SB 14 and now one can vote with a host of new forms of id.

The County of Waller Texas has been trying to keep students at Prairie View A&M from voting for decades and have lost several lawsuits. Prairie View A&M is a mainly African American university while Waller County is mainly white. These new forms of acceptable IDs will let Prairie View A&M students

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Reply #85)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 03:42 PM

86. If the only reason to require any ID to vote is because of the non-existent problem of voter fraud,

why require ANY ID at all? Any new obstacle to voting might prevent some people from being able to vote.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 04:48 PM

48. When you poll at 0% with a certain demographic,

 

you have to pull whatever kind of anti-democracy type of scumbag maneuver possible to try to win. I mean, obviously, you're not going to tailor your policies to try to draw more African American support, now.

That would make the ultra-righties in your coalition unhappy, after all.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 04:56 PM

49. When Politicians Tell the Truth on Voting Restrictions

I love the fact that many republicans are actually admitting that voter id laws are not about voter fraud but that tese laws are about stealing elections https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/when-politicians-tell-truth-voting-restrictions

Responding to an interview question about Republican’s chance at the presidency in 2016, U.S. Rep. Glenn Grothmann (R-Wisc.) responded, “Hilary Clinton is about the weakest candidate the Democrats have ever out up, and now we have voter ID and I think voter ID is going to make a little bit of a difference as well.” Grothman helped passed the voter ID law in 2011 when he served as assistant majority leader in the State Senate. In 2012, he claimed voter ID would help Mitt Romney win Wisconsin, saying, “Insofar as there are inappropriate things, people who vote inappropriately are more likely to vote Democrat.”



Legislative Leaders “Giddy” About Preventing Minorities and Students from Voting

At a May 2016 trial on Wisconsin’s voting restrictions, former Republican staffer Todd Allbaugh testified that some Wisconsin legislative leaders were “giddy” that the state’s strict photo ID law could keep minority and young voters from the polls. When the law was being considered in 2011, he said, State Sen. Mary Lazich (R) argued in favor of the bill: “She got up out of her chair and hit her fist or her finger on the table and said, ‘Hey, we’ve got to think about what this would mean for the neighborhoods around Milwaukee and the college campuses.’” State Sen. Dale Schultz, Allbaugh’s boss, said they should consider how it would hurt people’s ability to vote. Glenn Grothman, a state senate leader at the time, replied, “What I’m concerned about here is winning, and that’s what really matters here.”

Conservative Leader Argues Voter ID Skews Elections Toward Conservatives

Heritage Foundation president and former U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) said in an April 2016 radio interview, “Voter ID laws are something we’re working on all over the country, because in the states where they do have voter ID laws you’ve seen, actually, elections begin to change towards more conservative candidates.”...

Pennsylvania House Leader Asserts Voter ID Will Secure Victory for Romney

State Rep. Mike Turzai, an architect of the state’s then-existing strict voter ID law, said at a 2012 Republican State Committee meeting that “voter ID allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania” — presumably by disenfranchising people who would vote against him.


These laws have nothing to do with voter fraud. These laws are solely for the purpose of winning elections by keeping groups who tend to vote for Democrats from voting

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 05:13 PM

52. If the GOP cannot win on their message, don't allow Democrats to vote.

Their real plan. Their only plan.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 5, 2016, 08:29 PM

65. Examining the Impact of Voter Suppression on the 2014 Midterm Elections

Here are some great facts for the conservatives to ignore or not be able to understand
http://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/examining-impact-voter-suppression-2014-midterm-elections

Washington, D.C. — In the lead up to the 2014 midterm elections, the United States witnessed one of the greatest assaults on the right to vote in many generations. Many states implemented voting restrictions that made it more difficult—and, in some cases, impossible—for voters of color to participate in the 2014 midterm elections.

Following the U.S. Supreme Court’s devastating 2013 decision in Shelby County, Alabama v. Holder, which invalidated a core protection of the Voting Rights Act, or VRA, a number of states implemented new, restrictive voting laws. These included significant reductions in early voting, limitations on same-day registration, and strict photo identification requirements, including one that was ruled to be intentionally discriminatory.

A new report released today by the Center for American Progress, the NAACP Legal Defense & Educational Fund Inc., and the Southern Elections Foundation estimates the impact of these voting restrictions on the ability of communities of color in Texas, Alabama, North Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia—jurisdictions that have seen significant increases in both the overall population and the rate of political participation of communities of color—to participate in the 2014 midterm elections. This report’s analysis of the available evidence from this election season strongly suggests that these new restrictions on the right to vote disenfranchised large numbers of voters....

This report concentrated on Texas, Alabama, North Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia for the following reasons:

Citizens of color in each of the five states participated in the past two presidential elections in record numbers and comprised a larger share of the eligible voting population than ever before.

The data provided by the 2010 Census demonstrate that communities of color in these states—and eligible voters within those populations—are rapidly expanding in size and are on track to continue this accelerated growth for the foreseeable future.

Each state introduced at least one new restrictive voting law or voter suppression policy that applied in the 2014 elections and disproportionately affected people of color.

Four of these five states—with the exception of North Carolina—experienced sharp decreases in voter turnout from the 2010 midterm elections, likely due, at least in part, to the laws making it harder to vote in 2014.










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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 02:56 PM

84. The thread is interesting.

 

Those most vociferously wanting Government interference out of their shit, is calling for Government to be totally in everyone else's shit, requiring their papers and making it harder to get the papers. Interesting.

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Response to btw (Reply #84)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:00 PM

94. Having an ID

isn't the government being in my shit.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #94)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:15 PM

98. All the people I know that want to be off the Gov't radar (including IDs) are Reps.

 

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Response to btw (Reply #98)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:16 PM

99. Off the radar

isn't quite the same as not wanting someone in your shit.

Perhaps you should be more specific.

And who has made getting what papers more difficult to get?

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Response to kevlar (Reply #99)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:29 PM

100. same diff....when they are off the radar, Gov't cannot get into their shit.

 

Govt can't tell where they are, tap their calls, tell them how to treat wives, kids, tell them when to pay taxes, when to inoculate...........
not too hard to figure it out.

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Response to btw (Reply #100)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 06:35 PM

101. That is just silly.

Connecting fringe lunacy to those requesting election integrity is a fail.

But I suspect that is how you think of several million Americans who don't share your opinions.

Seems to be a trend lately for some; find one person who says or believes something and claim that tens of millions more agree based on nothing.

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Response to kevlar (Reply #101)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 09:31 AM

128. We are fortunate that the courts get to make this decision

Courts get to use facts and evidence to make these determinations. I love the recent rulings

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 07:27 PM

106. The Cons know this full well. They think that the lies to the CONtrary are

 

somehow fooling people.

They're not.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Tue Sep 6, 2016, 08:24 PM

108. What’s to stop me from claiming to be the woman down the road and voting?

Serious question.

Do you have to show a drivers license of something to vote?

I can’t vote in the US. because I’m a Brit.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Tue Sep 20, 2016, 09:34 AM

123. The Success of the Voter Fraud Myth

Here are some great facts for the conservatives to ignore http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/opinion/the-success-of-the-voter-fraud-myth.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

Credit for this mass deception goes to Republican lawmakers, who have for years pushed a fake story about voter fraud, and thus the necessity of voter ID laws, in an effort to reduce voting among specific groups of Democratic-leaning voters. Those groups — mainly minorities, the poor and students — are less likely to have the required forms of identification.

Behind closed doors, some Republicans freely admit that stoking false fears of electoral fraud is part of their political strategy. In a recently disclosed email from 2011, a Republican lobbyist in Wisconsin wrote to colleagues about a very close election for a seat on the State Supreme Court. “Do we need to start messaging ‘widespread reports of election fraud’ so we are positively set up for the recount regardless of the final number?” he wrote. “I obviously think we should.”

Sometimes they acknowledge it publicly. In 2012, a former Florida Republican Party chairman, Jim Greer, told The Palm Beach Post that voter ID laws and cutbacks in early voting are “done for one reason and one reason only” — to suppress Democratic turnout. Consultants, Mr. Greer said, “never came in to see me and tell me we had a fraud issue. It’s all a marketing ploy.”

The ploy works. During the 2012 election, voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee reduced turnout by about 2 percent, or about 122,000 votes, according to a 2014 analysis by the Government Accountability Office. Turnout fell the most among young people, African-Americans and newly registered voters. Another study analyzing elections from 2006 through 2014 found that voting by eligible minority citizens decreased significantly in states with voter ID laws and “that the racial turnout gap doubles or triples in states” with those laws.

There are plenty of shortcomings in the American voting system, but most are a result of outdated machines, insufficient resources or human error — not intentional fraud. All of these are made only worse by shutting down polling places or eliminating early voting hours, measures frequently supported by Republican legislators.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Tue Sep 20, 2016, 09:59 AM

124. The problem with

railing against voter id laws that require photo id from a state or federal issuing authority is that regardless of how nefarious the reasoning behind wanting to implement the requirement in question is simply a good idea on its own merit.

That doesn't mean though that there isn't an issue of contention in the implementation that needs to be addressed, which is the fact that the ability to obtain the necessarily documentation can be difficult for some and this is a requirement placed upon leverage a right thus the process must address the issue in question. However, those opposing the laws are not out to implement good legislation they are out to make political points on the issue. The complaint should never have been about the requirement but instead about how to address the problem with implementation.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Wed Sep 21, 2016, 08:06 PM

127. The Myth of Pervasive Voter Fraud

From the Brennan Center https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/myth-pervasive-voter-fraud

Debunking the myth of pervasive voter fraud, like debunking the myth behind Barack Obama’s foreign birth or the myth that global warming is a hoax, requires a level of journalistic commitment that few news outlets are able or willing to muster. It requires, you could say, a chipping away with relentless evidence at people unable or unwilling to let facts interfere with their beliefs. It requires the victory of logic over fear, of evidence over bias, and today those victories seem harder than ever.....

The failure is more pronounced now because the issue of voting rights, and disenfranchisement, could not be more vital this election season, the first presidential election since the five Republican justices then on the Court gutted the pre-clearance provision of the Voting Rights Act. That ruling means that, by partisan design, 50 years after passage of the Voting Rights Act, there will be fewer minority voters who are able to cast ballots in swing states like North Carolina, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Donald Trump knows this, of course, which is why he’s been fanning the flames of the voter fraud myth.

The poll tells me, finally, that those who cover this story, and the advocates who strive to broaden voting rights for all, have failed to adequately address (for editors and cable show bookers anyway) a “talking point” that almost always is raised whenever the topic of voter ID laws, and voter suppression, is raised. “If you need photo identification to get cough medicine at a pharmacy why shouldn’t you need photo identification to cast a ballot in an election?” It’s an attractive question for perpetrators of the voter fraud myth, especially if you are fortunate enough to be able to afford a car and the driver’s license that comes with it.

The answer is simple: “You do not have a legal right to be free from discrimination when you try to get cough medicine from your pharmacist. Your fellow Americans did not die in the 1950s and 1960s fighting for your right to get cough medicine from your pharmacist. Your state government is not trying to deprive you of your right to cough medicine because of the color of your skin. Congress did not pass a law, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and did not extend its provisions decade after decade until now, so that you could have a right to your cough medicine.”

When one party is trying to keep eligible voters from voting, and the stated justification for such suppression is unsupported by fact, and the unstated justification for such suppression is rooted in the nation’s history of racial bias, journalists have an ethical and moral obligation to say so every time the topic comes up. Such devotion to the truth may not change the poll numbers revealed last week. Clearly millions of Americans still are going to believe the voter fraud myth no matter how much of a fantasy it is. But at least the historians who judge this era in the history of journalism will look more kindly upon those reporters who tried to change the minds of their fellow citizens who on this topic are as certain as they are wrong.

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 09:33 AM

129. National: Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain |

The GOP tells lies about voter fraud to justify voter suppression laws http://thevotingnews.com/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain-the-new-york-times/

In April of this year, Representative Glenn Grothman, Republican of Wisconsin, predicted in a television interview that the state’s photo ID law would weaken the Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s chances of winning the state in November’s election. It was not the first time he cited voter ID requirements’ impact on Democrats; in 2012, speaking about the law’s effect on President Obama’s re-election race, Mr. Grothman said voter ID requirements hurt Democrats because Democratic voters cheat more often — a premise that remains unproven. One of the few verified instances of recent voter fraud at a Wisconsin polling place — the only kind of fraud that a photo ID might prevent — padded a Republican governor’s tally.

Also in Wisconsin, Todd Allbaugh, 46, a staff aide to a Republican state legislator, attributed his decision to quit his job in 2015 and leave the party to what he witnessed at a Republican caucus meeting. He wrote on Facebook:

I was in the closed Senate Republican Caucus when the final round of multiple Voter ID bills were being discussed. A handful of the GOP Senators were giddy about the ramifications and literally singled out the prospects of suppressing minority and college voters. Think about that for a minute. Elected officials planning and happy to help deny a fellow American’s constitutional right to vote in order to increase their own chances to hang onto power.
In Florida, both the state’s former Republican Party chairman, Jim Greer, and its former Republican governor, Charlie Crist, told The Palm Beach Post in 2012 that the state’s voter ID law was devised to suppress Democratic votes. Mr. Greer told The Post: “The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates. It’s done for one reason and one reason only,” he said. Consultants told him “we’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,” he said. He added, “They never came in to see me and tell me we had a fraud issue. It’s all a marketing ploy.”

… Richard L. Hasen, an election law expert and law professor at the University of California, Irvine, said in an email on Thursday that spreading claims of voter fraud for political gain has a pernicious impact. “It is a shameful falsehood, given the extremely low rates of voter fraud in the U.S., especially the kind of fraud targeted by Republican voter ID laws,” he wrote. “It undermines faith in the fairness of the electoral process, which is the bedrock of all functioning democracies.”

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Response to Letmypeoplevote (Original post)

Mon Sep 26, 2016, 09:48 AM

130. This idiot was cited in 4th Circuit opinion

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Politicspoliticsvotingrightsvotingrightsidvoteridvotersuppressionsuppressiontargted