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Sat Dec 12, 2015, 03:15 PM

 

Would you rather have Safety or Freedom?


2 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Safety
1 (50%)
Freedom
1 (50%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

34 replies, 1369 views

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply Would you rather have Safety or Freedom? (Original post)
I814U2CY Dec 2015 OP
Satan Dec 2015 #1
steelysunshine Dec 2015 #2
Da Mannn Dec 2015 #3
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #11
Da Mannn Dec 2015 #14
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #15
Da Mannn Dec 2015 #20
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #21
Da Mannn Dec 2015 #22
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #23
Da Mannn Dec 2015 #24
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #25
Da Mannn Dec 2015 #26
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #27
Da Mannn Dec 2015 #28
capncrunch Dec 2015 #4
Qukid Dec 2015 #6
oldenuff35 Dec 2015 #7
docgeezer Dec 2015 #32
capncrunch Dec 2015 #34
PrimeCustodian Dec 2015 #5
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #8
I814U2CY Dec 2015 #10
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #13
I814U2CY Dec 2015 #17
maximumbrainusage Dec 2015 #19
I814U2CY Dec 2015 #30
docgeezer Dec 2015 #33
liberalguy Dec 2015 #18
liberalguy Dec 2015 #9
I814U2CY Dec 2015 #12
liberalguy Dec 2015 #16
I814U2CY Dec 2015 #31
Borscht Dec 2015 #29

Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 03:22 PM

1. I agree with the short bald dude who used to fly kites in thunderstorms

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

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Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 03:33 PM

2. Safety is impossible

Freedom is only slightly less so.

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Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 03:33 PM

3. I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."- Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."- Thomas Jefferson

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:33 PM

11. But not for his slaves

He wasn't uncomfortable about slavery in the same way that, say , Washington was. In his will, he only freed 5 of , what , 180 slaves? Washington freed all his slaves in his will.

High-flown rhetoric isn't the same as reality. Let's remember that.

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:41 PM

14. Can you find purity in any man? Jefferson founded the Democrat party.

Early American history mixes great good with evil.
Can we really judge them by today's standards?

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:45 PM

15. Did you read what I said?

High-flown rhetoric and reality are not the same thing. This is important to remember in life in general.

You CAN judge Jefferson in comparison to people of his time. Like Washington. As I just did.

Do some more reading on this. Jefferson never expressed the same misgivings as other Founders did.

Does this negate his accomplishments? No

But apparently you don't want it mentioned? And particularly when someone presents a quote about how onerous slavery is?

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:06 PM

20. You should be kinder to the founder of the Democrat party

I did read what you said. and I reiterate: the times were different back then. You really cannot judge the past by today's standards.

I don't judge the democrats as evil because long dead party members embraced slavery, or that democrats founded the KKK when republicans freed the slaves.

Democrats today are very different from democrats back then

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:12 PM

21. I judged him compared to Washington

This is the second time I'm saying it.

You are aware Washington lived at the same time as Jefferson? Is there some confusion here in your mind?

I didn't call Jefferson evil, did I?

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:15 PM

22. You didn't call him evil. but you did pull the PC thing.

realize: this all started with just a quote. You inserted the PC thought control meme.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:19 PM

23. You feel your thought is being controlled?

I'm not sure what is going on with you here.

Pointing out the historical irony in a quote is upsetting you more than it probably should.

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:21 PM

24. I'm just pointing out that you are a slave to PC

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:23 PM

25. Pointing out historical context is being a 'slave' to PC?

Is mentioning Jefferson's slaves taboo now? That's very ironic itself

I notice you couldn't remark on Jefferson versus Washington's approach to freeing their slaves.

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:27 PM

26. The quote had nothing to do with slavery.

It was a direct answer to the OP.

You couldn't leave well enough alone. You injected slavery into the conversation. You Hijacked an otherwise fine thread.
This historical erasure of all things not PC is silly.

maybe you should set the PC down and contribute to the thread.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:32 PM

27. A quote using the word slavery has nothing to do with slavery?

What kind of Orwellian doublethink is this?

This was the quote "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."- Thomas Jefferson"

"The historical erasure of all things not PC is silly"....I fail to see how talking about history is erasing history.
That, too, is an Orwellian statement.

More information is not a bad thing. Don't close that mind up.

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:41 PM

28. Hint: it wasn't the slavery you were thinking of.

it was the citizen's slavery under a tyrant. didn't you ever take Civics 101?

some people's kids...

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Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 03:46 PM

4. They aren't mutually exclusive, so the question is BS

There are areas in which you restrict freedom for safety, but generic "safety" and "freedom" doesn't even make sense as a question.

The only way the question makes sense is if you are talking about taking each to their extreme.

Complete 100% safety, in which robots watch us and follow everyone around and prevent anything considered "bad" from happening around everybody.

Or complete 100% Freedom, in which everybody is allowed to do anything they want without any repercussion, other than whatever other "free peoples" decide to do to them in response.

And in that case, the choice is pretty easy for me to take Safety

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Response to capncrunch (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 04:23 PM

6. Welcome aboard capn

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Response to capncrunch (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 05:45 PM

7. From the beginning our our country until now the greats in our nation have seen differently

This has been the discussion for over 200 years. Compromise between the two provides neither freedom of safety.

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Response to capncrunch (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 13, 2015, 01:53 AM

32. Klaatu barada nicto!

What would happen if Gort had the memory chip that contained the 3 laws of robotics burn out?

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Response to docgeezer (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 14, 2015, 02:52 AM

34. Then that would invalidate the premise of the question.

That's the thing about this fantasy question. Safety or Freedom have to be 100% gauranteed (which doesnt exist in reality). You can't (or shouldn't) refuse safety on the basis that if something went wrong you wouldn't really be safe. In this fantasy proposed in the OP, safety is garaunteed. Your Robot Overlords can't malfunction.

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Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 03:50 PM

5. Giving that neither ones really exist in the first place, this question is totally irrelevant to me!

But that shouldn't stop you from asking the question just for the sake of it, though!!!

Who knows, maybe it is going to get you a date tonight, huh?

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Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:27 PM

8. Is banning all Muslims from visiting the US an expression of safety or freedom?

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:30 PM

10. Is importing unvetted people from cesspools of terrorism safety or freedom?

 

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:41 PM

13. You can't answer my question?

Don't want to?

You'd have to acknowledge it is a restriction on freedom. Since even you must acknowledge that most Muslims visiting the US are not performing terrorist acts. By barring them, by definition, you are restricting their freedom of movement.

So once again, rhetoric does not match reality.



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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:45 PM

17. Apparently safety and freedom only matters if you're a Syrian.

 

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:47 PM

19. Now it's safety AND freedom?

You've lost the plot of your own thread.

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 08:09 PM

30. I'm waiting for you to acknowledge either one

 

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 13, 2015, 01:57 AM

33. Do you lock the door to your house?

If so, you are restricting someone's freedom of movement.

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Response to maximumbrainusage (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:47 PM

18. Exactly, this banning decreases freedom with no effect on security or safety.

 

The concepts are entirely unrelated.

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Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:29 PM

9. So, think about the time in your life that you were least safe. Were you free?

 

Are hostages held at gunpoint free? Are death row prisoners free? Are you free when you're trying to find your family during a house fire? Is a domestic abuse victim free?

Safety and security are freedom. Roosevelt said it best:



The idea that freedom=insecurity is a recent innovation; invented by people who steal the value of your labor and call it, rather oxymoronically, "freedom".

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:38 PM

12. And how, in the context of your silliness is a hostage free or safe?

 

Why should a capital criminal be allowed to feel free or safe?

Unless you live a substantial portion of your life in burning houses what the fuck is the point of bringing this up?

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Response to I814U2CY (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 06:45 PM

16. Certainly, if your poll has any meaning whatsoever, it is that safety and freedom are...

 

Last edited Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:46 PM - Edit history (2)

... at opposite ends of some kind of continuum.

Otherwise it makes as much sense as asking people to choose between "happiness" and "temperature".

Safety and security are independent of, but prerequisites to, freedom.

The OP is gibberish, based on a stupid frame to convince stupid people to accept mortal peril and insecurity. I.E. "Obamacare is socialism! Medical insurance infringes on mah freedom!"

"I know that you would prefer being paid the $25/hour you were accustomed to as a union member, but think how much more free you are now that you make $10 doing the same job!"

60% more free, to be precise. That's "free" as in beer.

"peril" = "freedom" illustrates how stupid we've become.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 08:12 PM

31. Medical insurance doesn't infringe on freedom so long as people are free to

 

not buy medical insurance. But since we have neither medical security nor the freedom to opt out what we have are people being held hostage.

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Response to I814U2CY (Original post)

Sat Dec 12, 2015, 07:52 PM

29. Neither exits

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