Culturecultureconfederateflagmuslimsislam

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:27 PM

A legitimate question

I keep hearing how Donald Trump is racist. One reason I’m told, is because he doesn’t want illegal aliens in America. That does not make him racist. But that’s a whole other ball of wax to discuss. I want to discuss the other reason I’m given…because he doesn’t want Muslims in America. Which brings me to my question, which is actually directed towards liberals since they are the ones mostly with this mindset.

I ask this as a legitimate question. I will roundly ignore those who answer with snark and accusations.

I want to make a comparison between the Confederate flag and Muslims. Yes, bear with me a minute.

The Confederate flag was a symbol of the Southern side of the Civil War. It represented the desire to continue slavery, to many. But over time, it was co-opted to represent simply southern culture. A culture that has nothing to do with the civil war. Most southerners associate the Confederate flag with southern culture and heritage, rather than the civil war. They are no more interested in bringing back slavery than they are of outlawing sweet tea.

This culture has everything to do with tobacco crops, red clay and warm southern nights. Fried chicken dinners after church on Sunday, accents with long drawls, and a myriad of traditions of customs that are strictly southern. And yes, for some it also represented remembrance of ancestors who fought for the confederacy…not because of what they fought for, but because of their perseverance in fighting under terrible conditions, for what they believed in.

Then that symbol was co-opted again, this time by a hate-filled group called the KKK. The current thinking by some, is that the Confederate flag is a symbol of the KKK, and by regression, a symbol of those who want slavery. That symbol has been systematically taken away from southerners who flew it with southern pride for many, many years. Those who fly the Confederate flag out of hate are few. Those who fly it out of love for their Southern culture and heritage, are many.

The Muslim religion has also been co-opted. It has been co-opted by the most heinous of all people…. terrorists. Horrific acts have been perpetrated “in the name of” Islam. Anyone who chooses to deny that, is living in a fantasy land with the unicorns. It has been co-opted as well by gross misogyny. It has been co-opted to the point that when hearing the word “Muslim”, most people in the world think of terrorists and men who rape and stone the women who dare stand up for themselves. Those who kill in the name of Islam are few. Those who practice the religion of Islam in peace, are many.

We are told that what matters when it comes to the Confederate flag, is how it is seen by blacks and others due to it being co-opted by those few who fly it as a symbol of hate. It doesn’t matter that most who fly it do so for reasons that have nothing to do with hate. It’s how it is used by the few that matters.

But we are told that if we judge Muslims by the “acts of a few”, then we are racist. It doesn’t matter that it is used as the basis of hate and murder by some. It is how it is used by the many that matters.

Yes, the Confederate flag has the history of the civil war behind it, but the religion of Islam is based on a book that says that those who don’t believe in Islam, must be killed.

My question is this: Why the double standard?

Why must we see the Confederate flag as it is used by the few, but we must see the religion of Islam as it is used by the many?

62 replies, 3272 views

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply A legitimate question (Original post)
LaughingGull Mar 2016 OP
i verglas Mar 2016 #1
NavyBrat Mar 2016 #2
john262 Mar 2016 #3
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #17
john262 Mar 2016 #19
i verglas Mar 2016 #53
john262 Mar 2016 #58
i verglas Mar 2016 #59
kcci Mar 2016 #4
Tolk Mar 2016 #5
kcci Mar 2016 #6
Tolk Mar 2016 #8
kcci Mar 2016 #11
Tolk Mar 2016 #13
kcci Mar 2016 #15
Tolk Mar 2016 #24
kcci Mar 2016 #25
Tolk Mar 2016 #27
kcci Mar 2016 #32
Tolk Mar 2016 #9
kcci Mar 2016 #10
Tolk Mar 2016 #12
kcci Mar 2016 #14
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #16
kcci Mar 2016 #23
Tolk Mar 2016 #28
kcci Mar 2016 #31
Tolk Mar 2016 #33
kcci Mar 2016 #37
Tolk Mar 2016 #40
kcci Mar 2016 #48
Tolk Mar 2016 #49
kcci Mar 2016 #51
It Guy Mar 2016 #34
kcci Mar 2016 #38
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #42
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #41
kcci Mar 2016 #47
Tolk Mar 2016 #50
kcci Mar 2016 #52
Tolk Mar 2016 #54
kcci Mar 2016 #57
black rifles Mar 2016 #60
kcci Mar 2016 #61
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #20
kcci Mar 2016 #22
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #43
kcci Mar 2016 #46
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #18
kcci Mar 2016 #21
LaughingGull Mar 2016 #44
kcci Mar 2016 #45
sentient_simian Mar 2016 #30
It Guy Mar 2016 #35
fszwfnj Mar 2016 #7
kcci Mar 2016 #26
fszwfnj Mar 2016 #29
It Guy Mar 2016 #36
Bubba Mar 2016 #39
HerasHeaddress Mar 2016 #56
It Guy Mar 2016 #62
HerasHeaddress Mar 2016 #55

Response to LaughingGull (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:35 PM

1. when you start with a false premise ...

 

where did you expect to end up?

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Response to LaughingGull (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:38 PM

2. Good post. Thoughtful and well articulated. I may disagree ...

 

with your characterization that only "a few" displayers of the flag did so with hateful overtones; but you made a coherent and logical argument.

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Response to LaughingGull (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:47 PM

3. That, plus the fact that Islam is a religion, not a race. You might be able to make

a case that he is a religious bigot but his statements about Muslims do not make him a racist.

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Response to john262 (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:30 PM

17. Okay...a bigot then.

What is the difference when applied to the premise of my OP?

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #17)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:42 PM

19. I'm a stickler for the precise meaning of words.

I had an English composition instructor when I was a freshman in college who got me in that habit.

And regarding the difference, I would probably label racism as a worse offense than common bigotry.

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Response to john262 (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:31 PM

53. ah yes, ah yes

 

I'm a stickler for the precise meaning of words.
Hence your incessant parroting of the term "Islamic terrorist" "Islamic terrorism".

Looked up "Islamic" in yr Funk&Wagnall's lately?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #53)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:24 PM

58. There is nothing imprecise about the term "Islamic terrorism."

Of course you don't like to see the term used but that doesn't mean that the term is without a specific meaning.

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Response to john262 (Reply #58)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 02:33 PM

59. not imprecise

 

Wrong.

There is nothing "Islamic" about terrorism.

Muslim terrorism - terrorism committed by Muslims? Sure enough. Or Islamist terrorism - terrorism to advance the political ideology of Islamism.

Just like Jewish terrorism (terrorism committed by Jews) or Zionist terrorism (terrorism to advance the political ideology of Zionism) in the last century.

As I said, look up "Islamic" someplace.

Or keep using words to deceive. Your choice.

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Response to LaughingGull (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:50 PM

4. The Confederate flag was brought back during the Civil Rights era.

 

The Confederate flag represents the southern heritage of slavery, Jim Crow, racism, treason and cowardly surrender.

It is the same as waving a Nazi or ISIS flag...except those evil organizations actually put up a fight.

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Response to kcci (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 03:57 PM

5. It was used

 

During WWII by at least one Army division.
I suppose they were nazis also?

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Response to Tolk (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:07 PM

6. A segregated unit.

 

It was ordered taken down after only three days by a General because "Americans from all over are involved in this battle".

Of course, I assume the General also realized that those that fight under that disgraced rag have a tendency to replace it with an all white one.

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Response to kcci (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:19 PM

8. so what about Vietnam and Iraq?

 

Guess nobody bothered listening to that general eh?

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Response to Tolk (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:36 PM

11. Black soldiers protested the Confederate flag.

 

Particularly when MLK was assassinated and U.S. flags went to half mast, those opposed to civil rights raised the CSA flag.

Thanks for bringing up an instance that proves the CSA flag is both racist, and not conducive winning wars.

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Response to kcci (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:37 PM

13. What like 3 of them?

 

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Response to Tolk (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:43 PM

15. Surprisingly a flag specifically flown to keep the institution of slavery

 

and Jim Crow was protested by more than three

That's why that dirty rag is being taken down everywhere except at the trailers of the losers occupying the bottom rung of society.

It's so nice of those uneducated and bigoted losers to self identify like that.

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Response to kcci (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 09:41 PM

24. It's being taken down

 

Because of the ignorant PC crowd needed something new to whine about.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:43 PM

25. It's being taken down because it's the flag of unAmerican, war losing cowards

 

We already fought a war over this.

Scoreboard, losers.

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Response to kcci (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:50 PM

27. umm no

 

It's because a bunch of ignorant wingnuts who are not capable of an original thought got their marching orders from the media.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:19 AM

32. "original thought" doesn't mean "inventing facts"

 

The Confederate flag was flown by disgusting and immoral war-losing cowads.

If they didn't want to take down that filthy rag, they shouldn't have surrendered.

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Response to kcci (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:21 PM

9. Not to mention

 

Soldiers who fought for the confederacy are considered US war veterans by the US government.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:32 PM

10. So long as they continue to be rightly considered "losers", I couldn't care less.

 

Politically correct nonsense to get the votes of traitorous war-losing scum doesn't particularly interest me.

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Response to kcci (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:36 PM

12. Seems like you care a lot

 

And hate a whole lot to boot

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Response to Tolk (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:37 PM

14. "hate" is exactly what the CSA flag represents.

 

Along with shameful and cowardly surrender, of course.

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Response to kcci (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:28 PM

16. To some, it represents hate. To most, it does not.

Which is the premise of my post.

Just as Islam represents hate to some, to most not.

Why the double standard?

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 07:08 PM

23. What the CSA flag stands for is isn't in question. It is historical fact.

 

Most blacks certainly know what it stands for.
Rather telling to ignore both facts and blacks in this particular conversation.

I feel the same way about a CSA flag as I do the Nazi flag.
I am consistent.
Are you?

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Response to kcci (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:51 PM

28. Why not the US flag?

 

I mean if you want to be consistent and all.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:14 AM

31. Because the US flag was the flag that won and

 

beat decency into the immoral losers that flew the CSA flag.

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Response to kcci (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 12:29 AM

33. And comitted genocide

 

Against native Americans and drove them from their lands...a practice that continues to this very day.
Also supported and profited from slavery for long before the confederacy was ever concieved.
It's also a symbol that has been adopted by white supremacist and hate groups... they fly it at all their demonstrations and rallies.

Why are you so inconsistent?

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Response to Tolk (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:45 AM

37. There is no inconsistency.

 

The CSA fought to defend slavery and got decency beaten into them by the good people of this great nation.
Later the good people forced the scumbag descendants of the CSA to give up Jim Crow.

But if you don't like seeing American flags, feel free to leave.

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Response to kcci (Reply #37)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 09:04 AM

40. You support genocide then

 

By flying the American flag you are showing your support for the systematic slaughter of a whole race of people.

Me personally, I don't care what flag anyone flies

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Response to Tolk (Reply #40)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 06:10 PM

48. Not at all.

 

If you think the US stands for genocide then get out of my county, America-hater.

Meanwhile history and the battlefield proves which culture between the CSA and the USA is stronger and more moral.

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Response to kcci (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 08:09 PM

49. That's odd

 

If you think the rebel flag stands stands for racism then get out of my country... because you can't comprehend racism or genocide.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #49)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:08 PM

51. I can comprehend. So can most educated people.

 

Which is why your desperate and laughable attempts to conflate the USA with slavery defending war losing traitors doesn't fool anybody but uneducated CSA apologists.

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Response to kcci (Reply #31)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:50 AM

34. That's all changed now

Liberals feel free to crap on the flag or burn it at every opportunity. So much for morals and decency.

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Response to It Guy (Reply #34)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:48 AM

38. When did that happen?

 

Link it.

Meanwhile, in reality northern liberals beat decency into filthy southern conservative traitors.

The pathetic mewling of the thoroughly defeated doesn't change that fact.

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Response to It Guy (Reply #34)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:59 PM

42. No kidding. Check this insanity out.

The students made a beautifully painted stretched canvas American Flag and then applied flags from all the Spanish speaking countries onto the stripes of the American flag. All the children chose a flag to color using colored pencils and they were glued onto the larger American flag. The stars are cut canvas which are painted and decorated with REAL Swarovski Crystals (gold and crystal colored)!

The fun quote on the bottom is about unity and creating an environment in which everyone is welcome! "We pledge allegiance to an International Flag!" Our dual language classroom strives to be a place that everyone feels welcome! (Emphasis added)

Read more: http://www.hannity.com/articles/hanpr-election-493995/outrageous-public-school-students-taught-to-14451508/#ixzz423JyAluj


http://www.hannity.com/articles/hanpr-election-493995/outrageous-public-school-students-taught-to-14451508/#ixzz41xdMfY6C

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Response to kcci (Reply #23)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:56 PM

41. It most certainly is in question.

Just as what the religion of Islam stands for is in question. It is also a historical fact that many, many people have been killed in the name of Islam.

You are the one ignoring facts. You hate the flag. We get that. Now lets move on to the facts and the question I posed in the OP.

Why the double standard?

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #41)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 06:07 PM

47. No it isn't.

 

Your are simply attempting to justify bigotry to support the flag of bigots.

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Response to kcci (Reply #47)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 09:45 PM

50. no

 

You are trying to justify the hatred that has been fed into your mind.
You are obviously confused ... that's ok it's just a part of growing up.

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Response to Tolk (Reply #50)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 11:12 PM

52. There is no confusion. That is why I bring up facts and you attempt deflection.

 

It fools nobody with even a basic level of education.

Perhaps you should expand your apologist nonsense to Nazis and the holocaust...."but...but.. other countries did bad things to Jewish people too!!.."

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Response to kcci (Reply #52)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 12:31 AM

54. perhaps

 

You should wander out of your shell.
Spend some time in the country
You come off to me as a child

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Response to Tolk (Reply #54)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:23 AM

57. The only places where the CSA flag flies are places with low education.

 

One doesn't need visit the most disgusting areas of the south to be worldly.
That said, I have visited those areas. It was very interesting, like visiting a zoo. I was very pleased to see how CSA flag wavers live.

They deserve it.

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Response to kcci (Reply #57)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 06:55 PM

60. The continual filth you post is

 

very much akin to what good Nazis said about Jews.

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Response to black rifles (Reply #60)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 07:00 PM

61. Actually more akin to what Americans called Nazis.

 

Nazis and the CSA were both centered on the idea of racial supremacy.

As an American, I consider both Nazis and their philosophically similar, slavery-defending traitorous CSA brethren as moral filth.

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Response to kcci (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:43 PM

20. Does the Muslim religion represent hate to you as well?

A lot of hate has been perpetrated against people based on the covenants of that religion.

If not, why not?

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 07:03 PM

22. The Nazis represent hate.

 

The CSA and the Nazis shared similar philosophies.

What is your opinion of those that would fly a Nazi flag?

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Response to kcci (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:01 PM

43. The terrorists who are killing in the name of Islam represent tremendous hate.

Why the double standard?

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 06:05 PM

46. Planning on waving an ISIS flag?

 

I am consistent.

You and your fellow slavery-apologists are not.

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Response to kcci (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:40 PM

18. You ignore the facts.

The Civil Rights era was years ago. Subsequently, it has been co-opted by those who see it as a symbol of southern culture and heritage, not as a sign of hate (with the few exceptions).

For most who choose to wave it, it does not represent Jim Crow, racism, or any of the other vile things you choose to continue to associate it with.

Just as most Muslims practice their religion peacefully, but there are a few that practice it with hate.

So why the double standard?

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 07:01 PM

21. WW2 was longer ago.

 

Yet I would, rightly, judge a person flying a Nazi flag the same as I would judge a person flying a CSA flag.
Thus, I am consistant.
What about you?
How would you judge a person that flies a Nazi flag?

"For most who choose to wave it, it does not represent..."
As impressive as your mind reading demonstration is; I couldn't care less about the stated opinions of uneducated morons.
What it represents is historical fact.
Hence, I correctly judge those that fly or support flying the CSA flag as uneducated morons and/or racist scumbags.

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Response to kcci (Reply #21)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 02:03 PM

44. Terrorists are killing in the name of Islam right now. Daily.

Why the double standard?

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #44)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 06:04 PM

45. where are the ISIS flags?

 

The only double standard is from apologists for enemies of the USA

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 11:23 PM

30. So fly your flag on your property, who cares.

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Response to LaughingGull (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:53 AM

35. It's because when liberals look in a mirror they don't see the reflection.

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Response to LaughingGull (Original post)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 04:18 PM

7. Im not a lliberal so your premise seems to be pretty thin to me ,but i understand

That liberals seem to view the world as you describe.I would answer by stating that most liberals are highly ideologically driven. So inconsistencies in their views tend to be ignored.

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Response to fszwfnj (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:45 PM

26. Would you support flying a Nazi flag?

 

Or are you inconsistent as a result of ideology?

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Response to kcci (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 4, 2016, 10:57 PM

29. Your going to need to explain your questions.

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Response to LaughingGull (Original post)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 01:55 AM

36. Your post was salient and very well thought out, thanks.

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Response to It Guy (Reply #36)

Sat Mar 5, 2016, 05:16 AM

39. I Totally Agree With It Guy.

Perhaps I shouldn't be, but I am very surprised by KCCI's vitriol, bitterness, and just plain ignorance.

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Response to Bubba (Reply #39)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:18 AM

56. No, you shouldn't.

Never, ever be surprised about that.

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Response to Bubba (Reply #39)

Sun Mar 13, 2016, 11:31 PM

62. He's trying to perpetrate false equivalencies, wether he knows it or not.

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Response to LaughingGull (Original post)

Sun Mar 6, 2016, 09:17 AM

55. It's the same 'reasoning'

used to brand all whites as racists, all Christians as bigots then finger wagging about using the same reasoning in reverse. It's a useful tool that works wonders.

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Culturecultureconfederateflagmuslimsislam