Cultureculture

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:07 PM

Do you canoe? You're a racist and a cultural appropriator.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/electric-cars-aren-t-green-pot-is-still-a-drug-and-we-need-to-rethink-the-canoe-1.3475291/is-the-canoe-a-symbol-of-canada-or-of-colonialism-1.3475381

Ah, the Canoe.

One of the seven wonders of Canada.

To some, a symbol of our connection to the natural world, a representation of our reverence for history, a tool of exploration and discovery.

To others, like Misao Dean, Professor of English at the University of Victoria, the canoe can be a symbol of colonialism, imperialism, and marginalization.

Dean is the author of the book Inheriting a Canoe Paddle: The Canoe in Discourses of English-Canadian Nationalism. In this interview, Dean asks us to consider the canoe, and what it really represents in Canadian society, and whose symbol it is. To Dean, the story Canadians tell themselves about the canoe is one of European colonialism, while ignoring the role the canoe played in displacing and harming indigenous people. She notes that hobbyist canoers today are a pretty specific group.

Certainly the majority of wilderness canoers are people who have a very privileged place in society. They're frequently highly educated people. They're almost completely white.
- Misao Dean, Professor of English, University of Victoria
Dean says that in the wake of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, non-indigenous Canadians should rethink the canoe. And they can do it every time the dip a paddle in the water.

54 replies, 4108 views

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Reply Do you canoe? You're a racist and a cultural appropriator. (Original post)
Currentsitguy Oct 2016 OP
Magyar Heidinn Oct 2016 #1
Currentsitguy Oct 2016 #3
TexMex Oct 2016 #9
Magyar Heidinn Oct 2016 #10
Magyar Heidinn Oct 2016 #12
TexMex Oct 2016 #16
Magyar Heidinn Oct 2016 #22
Currentsitguy Oct 2016 #33
Jaime Lannister Oct 2016 #44
liberalguy Oct 2016 #41
DDKick Oct 2016 #13
His Daughter Oct 2016 #14
nolens volens Oct 2016 #2
PrimeCustodian Oct 2016 #4
Currentsitguy Oct 2016 #5
PrimeCustodian Oct 2016 #7
i verglas Oct 2016 #17
PrimeCustodian Oct 2016 #20
i verglas Oct 2016 #24
PrimeCustodian Oct 2016 #35
i verglas Oct 2016 #36
PrimeCustodian Oct 2016 #37
liberalguy Oct 2016 #42
Bushmaster330 Oct 2016 #6
i verglas Oct 2016 #8
Currentsitguy Oct 2016 #11
His Daughter Oct 2016 #15
i verglas Oct 2016 #18
His Daughter Oct 2016 #19
i verglas Oct 2016 #25
Banshee 3 Actual Oct 2016 #40
Zimm_Man_Fan Oct 2016 #48
i verglas Oct 2016 #49
Zimm_Man_Fan Oct 2016 #50
i verglas Oct 2016 #51
_eek Oct 2016 #30
liberalguy Oct 2016 #43
JaimeBondoJr Oct 2016 #21
FreeWheelBurning Oct 2016 #23
i verglas Oct 2016 #26
FreeWheelBurning Oct 2016 #27
clem kadiddlehopper Oct 2016 #28
Mouth of Chaos Oct 2016 #29
i verglas Oct 2016 #31
LeeCPTINF Oct 2016 #32
i verglas Oct 2016 #34
LeeCPTINF Oct 2016 #38
fszwfnj Oct 2016 #39
SlayerNut Oct 2016 #45
I814U2CY Oct 2016 #46
762Justice Oct 2016 #47
Ursus Magnus Oct 2016 #52
Sibelian the White Oct 2016 #53
i verglas Nov 2016 #54

Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:25 PM

1. Do not canoe,

however, I do have a woodworking shop. On a woodworking forum someone posted a artical about how hobbies that white people partake are racist due to white privledge. Amongst the hobbies was woodworking, archery, hunting, restoring cars, ballooning, collecting antiques, and canoeing made the list also. Will try and find the artical and post a link?

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Response to Magyar Heidinn (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:26 PM

3. sure. Thanks!

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Response to Magyar Heidinn (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:58 PM

9. I may be guilty of race mixing

 

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Response to TexMex (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:58 PM

10. Nice.

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Response to TexMex (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:20 PM

12. just took the clamps off this piano bench


Now to get the top done, assemble,finish sand and gas it with ammonia to make the fleck pop and finish in Briwax.

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Response to Magyar Heidinn (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:52 PM

16. That's a classic oak finish

 

Nice work! Once you have a jointer and planer the quality of the woodwork goes way up. My next project is book matched veneer coffee table in olive burl. I can't wait to fire up the vacuum press.

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Response to TexMex (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:33 PM

22. Good equipment makes the difference.

A couple years ago I upgraded my bench top mortiser to a stand alone machine. What a difference in ease of use and quality of holes.

The last project I completed this summer was a home for my chisels. Had the scrap RO left over from a gun room cabinet project.


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Response to Magyar Heidinn (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 07:42 AM

33. That is beautiful work.

I've done a lot of wood but nothing to that level. Probably the closest I've come was rebuilding the living room after the fire. all the walls are planed and the floating shelves are planed and joined. These were taken slight before the job was done.


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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 01:25 AM

44. excellent work man

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Response to Magyar Heidinn (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 11:22 PM

41. Extremely nice.

 

Boats are my thing.

This what happens when a boatbuilder's wife asks for a bookshelf.


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Response to TexMex (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:23 PM

13. I had tried in my youth to work with wood. That was not in my future

8 months in wood shop in high school when they taught trades got me a mahagony coffee table that my own mother couldn't stand. Bless her though she tried to pretend it was amazing until she sold it at a yard sale for 1$ while I was away starting my own family.
We joked about it for years, I miss her and her sense of humor often.

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Response to TexMex (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:44 PM

14. Nice work

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:25 PM

2. Well in that case

I probably shouldn't point out that I have a sailboat....after all the white folks sailed here to take the land from the indigenous people and bring their own people to then occupy the land that was stolen.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:32 PM

4. A 'millienial'................................without a doubt!

I guess there's no sense in telling her that the 'Canoe' didn't originate from North America; Canoe have been around since the beginning of time.

" .. The word canoe comes from the Carib kenu (dugout), via the Spanish canoa.

Constructed between 8200 and 7600 BC, and found in the Netherlands, the Pesse canoe may be the oldest known canoe. Excavations in Denmark reveal the use of dugouts and paddles during the Ertebølle period, (ca 5300 BC – 3950 BC). ... "

Read more @ LINK:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canoe

Hmm............a Professor of English at the University of Victoria: Somebody should tell about Google!

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Response to PrimeCustodian (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:34 PM

5. Simple physics and hydrodynamics

limits the amount of things and shapes that will float.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:43 PM

7. Exactely

... and it's was probably invented by a 'fisherman' aeons ago, who didn't have the foresight to register his invention with the 'patent' Office.

Good thing he didn't, otherwise we would be paying 'royalty' fee on top of the current price for a Canoe.

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Response to PrimeCustodian (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:54 PM

17. yes, Canadian professors of English are all stupider than everybody here

 

The word canoe comes from the Carib kenu (dugout), via the Spanish canoa.
Gosh, this suggests something to me.

It suggests that the Spanish did not have canoes, and were introduced to them by the indigenous Caribs, who used them and thus had a word for them. If the Spanish had had their own, they would have had a word for them.

By the time Europeans came to the New World (including the Antipodes), Europe had been crisscrossed by roads and canals for centuries -- a millennium and a half. Nobody had to navigate rapids through dense bush and forest and mountains to get where they wanted to go or transport goods for trade. So while prehistoric Europeans undoubtedly did have dugouts, 5,000 years before the Romans, those had long since become buried artefacts.

The Europeans who traversed the American continents needed transportation, since there were no Roman roads and canals. They adopted the indigenous vehicle: the dugout or canoe, depending on local cultures and their equipment.

The dugouts and canoes they used were indigenous. They did not invent them once they got here. They adopted them.

And yes, they then used them to colonize and occupy the land that they regarded as empty and unclaimed, when in fact its inhabitants considered it to be an intergenerational legacy, and to oust the people who were already using them for physical and cultural sustenance.

There's nothing wrong or wrong-headed or even inherently dangerous about acknowledging historical facts, you know.

One can choose to disregard them in forming one's own modern-day policy positions, if one likes, by claiming that they should not be taken into account in allocating the rights and benefits of modern-day society, and so on.

But it makes little sense to deny them.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #17)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:14 PM

20. I see what you mean ...



Had these people use a 'canoe', they would have reached home by now!

Or, maybe we should look at 'horses' instead..................wouldn't your argument make more sense then?

Just saying ...

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Response to PrimeCustodian (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:57 PM

24. I don't actually know what you're saying ...

 

But if those people had tried to get through even the Carolinian forest of southwestern Ontario, let alone the impenetrable bush of northern Ontario, not to even mention the rivers of the Canadian Shield, on horseback, or, heaven forefend, trying to pull that conveyance ...

You do know that most of Canada wasn't prairie, right? And what had to be got through to even get to prairie, from either side?


This is not a Canadian river:



This is a Canadian river:


Robert Tobacco and Harold Wells Lining their Canoe up Tracking Rapids on the Goose River

The Goose River flows into the Sturgeon-Weir River less than 5 km. north of the community of Sturgeon Landing. It was part of the Hudson's Bay Company's 'Upper Track', the route to Hudson Bay from Cumberland House via the Sturgeon-Weir, Goose, Grass, and Nelson Rivers. The portage from Lake Athapapuscow at the upper end of the Goose River to First Cranberry Lake on the Grass River was named Cranberry Portage, where the community of the same name is situated.


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Response to i verglas (Reply #24)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 11:06 AM

35. Are you sure about that ...?

From the original POST:

" ... To others, like Misao Dean, Professor of English at the University of Victoria, the canoe can be a symbol of colonialism, imperialism, and marginalization. ... "



Nothing says it more like 'colonialism', 'imperialism', and 'marginalization'
than the illustrated symbolism shown here.
Like you said earlier:

" ... There's nothing wrong or wrong-headed or even inherently dangerous about acknowledging historical facts, you know. ... "

Just saying ...

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Response to PrimeCustodian (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 11:13 AM

36. apparently there is an image in your post

 

that seems to be Baptism-of-Pocahontas from wikipedia.

I can't see it and I don't know what it has to do with anything here.

Perhaps you are suggesting that there is only one way to engage in colonialism, imperialism and marginalization. No idea.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #36)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 11:42 AM

37. Hmm...!


Wouldn't that be a 'shocker'?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 11:31 PM

42. By this logic, the horse is the ultimate in cultural appropriation.

 


Running Bear says "Thanks Mr Cortez!"

Humans are clever, adaptable folks. One person's cultural appropriation is another persons, "Of course I'm wearing a straw hat! Have you seen how hot it is here?"

Canoes make sense for some waterways. Rowboats make sense for some. Sailboats make sense for some. Adapting to local conditions isn't cultural appropriation; it's common sense.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:36 PM

6. I think it would be grand

If someone slapped a canoe paddle upside her head and also funny as hell.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 03:53 PM

8. of course, you noticed this was about Canada

 

And in Canada, there is little more symbolic of white male privilege than a Trudeau.



Papa and firstborn son, Pierre and Justin, for anyone not familiar. They're all famous for their wilderness exploits, including the thirdborn, killed while engaged in that whitest and most privileged of pastimes, backcountry skiing (you get flown in by helicopter, and the taxpayer pays for you to be rescued from the avalanches you cause).


You did notice the helpful suggestion at the website, right? --

To hear the full interview, click the "play" button above.

The white European narrative of the Canadian wilderness is pretty much an obvious thing, that is now being examined (after, conversely, it is what I was taught several decades ago: the Group of Seven, and on and on).

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Response to i verglas (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:03 PM

11. I have never seen how people

can view skiing as a "sport". Skiing is a means of getting from one place to another, preferably warmer. Remember Otzi the Iceman? Where was he found? In the Alps, pointed downhill, towards warmer climes, namely Italy. Presumably he was not engaged in the Stone Age Giant Slalom.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:49 PM

15. Would curling be considered a cultural appropriation?

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 04:56 PM

18. would somebody care?

 

Has an entire European historical and cultural narrative been built up around curling?

Nice to see our resident expert on all things Canadian weigh in again. It's been a while.

Do tell us what you know about the role of the canoe in Canadian history, and the role of the wilderness in the European framing of that history.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #18)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:01 PM

19. Just curious. Can you answer the question or not?

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:59 PM

25. you go on now and start a thread about curling

 

and tell us everything you know about it, and I'll see whether I can help you out!

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 10:04 PM

40. Of course she wont answer, she's in contrary mode

There is a certain amount of Irony here in that she seems annoyed at being lectured about Canada, yet she never fails to do so to those in the USA.

http://www.discussionist.com/?com=profile&uid=101580

http://discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=205127

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #19)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 05:05 PM

48. Your stalker is as boorish as ever, and as persistent as a wood tick.

From the Canadian woods.

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Response to Zimm_Man_Fan (Reply #48)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 06:27 PM

49. I'm afraid that is too unsubtle

 

even to rise to the level of irony.

http://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=209935

Now, get out your reading specs and see who first addressed whom in this thread, of the person of convenience you are addressing here, and the person you are ... well, you know.

Oops, eh?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #49)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 06:48 PM

50. That you follow His Daughter around DI and post repeated phony rhetorical questions

to her is beyond doubt (as you just did above); why you would post a link to me that takes one to an OP I did not participate in showing still more posts by you sprouting more links to posts regarding yours truly and think you're making some kind of point is...well...what? Pointless? Random? Really, really bizarre?

I could characterize it other ways, of course, and they'd be correct, also, but we'll hold off on that.

^^^Onlookers: click her link and check the OP and note her second favorite poster to follow around DI's absence from it. She actually has a pretend conversation in her own OP with a poster who isn't there. Even my cat laughs at the oddness of it^^^

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Response to Zimm_Man_Fan (Reply #50)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 07:31 PM

51. ZMF

 

Code for

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Response to i verglas (Reply #18)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 09:31 PM

30. As the smug and weighty authority on all things everywhere..

Mayhap you should just sit back and let others opine on America's hat.

When you decide to hold your own uncivil tongue on the rest of the world, we will cease to talk about the sadly limited number of interesting things going on up in the land of loonies and toonies.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 11:33 PM

43. What about the role of the car in american history?

 

Sometimes a boat is just a boat.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:22 PM

21. All I know is the word C-A-N-O-E got this white guy laid...

Canoe canoe?

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 05:35 PM

23. Dammit. How am I going to fish now?

What boat is culturally appropriate for a middle aged white guy? I don't want a motor and it has to be big enough to fit two of my kids. No trailer either. It has to be small enough to put on top of the crossover.I also have the added burden of ensuring that the selection is appropriate for my children. Their mother is Jamaican and Cuban. Is there a boat that would be acceptable for them and me at the same time?

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Response to FreeWheelBurning (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 06:00 PM

26. very easily, apparently

 

How you would have something relevant to say about an analysis of the Canadian historical narrative ... well, I might not be able to help you answer that one.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 06:03 PM

27. It was a bit of snark that I thought would be obvious to all. NT

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 06:55 PM

28. I'm in deep doo doo

Canoe and woodworking

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 08:40 PM

29. It's a boat...been around for eons...

Viking Gokstadfæringen







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Response to Mouth of Chaos (Reply #29)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 09:39 PM

31. how clever

 

Nothing to do with what the person interviewed was talking about, but pretty pix.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Tue Oct 25, 2016, 11:49 PM

32. Allow me to rethink the canoe...ok, I'm done. It's a boat. Big deal.

Oh, so the Indians are having a sad because whitemen are using canoes? Well, all I can say is boohoo. If they didn't want whites to paddle around in their tiny boats, maybe they should have fought better. Ash heap of history? Clean up on aisle 3.

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Response to LeeCPTINF (Reply #32)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 10:02 AM

34. "Oh, so the Indians are having a sad because whitemen are using canoes?"

 

That's some good "rethinking" right there.



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Response to i verglas (Reply #34)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 07:38 PM

38. It got all the thought the subject deserved

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Wed Oct 26, 2016, 09:34 PM

39. What is the point?

Will the government demand equal number of POC partake in canoeing? Should canoe manufactures be required to provide education class on the horrors of Canadian colonialism.


And why do people get paid to work on this useless nonsense?

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 06:24 AM

45. I prefer a kayak.

One of my native friends makes traditional birch bark canoes. Sometimes he makes the fire pit on the back of it for shining and spearing salmon at night.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 06:47 AM

46. If a non-Westerner uses Western medicine, is that cultural appropriation?

 

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Thu Oct 27, 2016, 04:39 PM

47. That is just stupid.

Is there just not enough English to teach or something?

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Sat Oct 29, 2016, 02:25 AM

52. ANOTHER

 

Social Justice Weenie/Academaniac heard from.

Canada is America's toque.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Original post)

Sat Oct 29, 2016, 07:58 AM

53. Aaaaaah. The Ugly Canadian.


Easily as prevalent as their more well-recognised cousin the Ugly American, the Ugly Canadian is even less self-aware, louder, less well-informed, even more apt to arrive at idiotic conclusions and even more impervious to criticism. They have a thick insulating layer of "Canada is the opposite of America" buried in their heads which means, to them, that all they have to do to not be in the wrong is not be American. As a type, they are largely invisible to those who consider themselves guides of popular opinion, but not to people who can tell a dick from a donut.

Petty, arrogant, self-righteous, profoundly ignorant, tedious and incapable of treating any sentence uttered by anyone as anything more than an invitation to repeat their own opinions, these irritating people are well-known in Europe and the States as the most ardent curators of middlebrow aphorisms history has yet observed.

There is no human on the planet more apt to pontificate at length about the fascinating qualities of their home nation than an Ugly Canadian, usually succeeding only in convincing everyone that Canada is the most boring, self-interested country in the Universe.

Contrast with the Nice Canadians, who are a rather humble, sensible and polite people who genuinely want things to be OK for people.

A lot like the Nice Americans, in fact.

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Response to Sibelian the White (Reply #53)

Tue Nov 1, 2016, 12:55 PM

54. how trenchant

 

Not remotely related to the subject matter of the thread, which is the displacement and mistreatment of indigenous peoples by colonizers in Canada, and how it was carried out. But whatever, eh? You got to talk about something of which you know, well, nothing. I doubt you have ever met a Canadian. Or seen a Canadian television news program, or watched a Canadian drama, or seen the House of Commons in session, or read a Canadian book. Etc.

You just spout off oblique insults rather than replying to posts addressed to you in reply to some other spewing.

http://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=211582

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