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Sun Jul 30, 2017, 03:15 AM

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (TM999) on Wed Feb 20, 2019, 01:59 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Response to TM999 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 03:27 AM

1. Here

 



Enjoy and relax. It's Sat night.

Cheers .

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Response to TM999 (Original post)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 05:05 AM

2. The fundamentalist strand of Islam was defeated until it was reconstituted in the 1980s

to fight the commies. Subsequent regime changes in the 21st century then removed secular strong men who kept the extremists in check. Then billions of dollars in weapons shipments gave them the capacity to take territory for themselves. Billions of dollars in oil money also helped them spread their ideology across the world, more recently with the connivance of the social media giants. The Shia-Christian axis is the only thing that stands in the way of them dominating most of the world.

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Response to Cyberpunk (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 08:10 AM

3. That is simply historically inaccurate.

Fundamentalism has dominated Islam from the very beginning. A brief excursion into philosophy and theology utilizing Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian sources occurred in Baghdad in the 9th century. For a brief moment in time, science, art, mathematics, philosophy, theology, and mysticism were allowed in Islam. But this was stamped out and never allowed to be repeated. When a tiny minority attempted in Spain centuries later, their works were burn, and they were either exiled or murdered. Very little of those writings are even in existence today.

Sunnis and Shias are two sects that differ in only very minor ways, though they would consider them to be major of course. They disagree on the line of succession after Mohammed, and they disagree on some of the Hadiths (and that is typically because of the previous line of succession issues). But otherwise, they both follow strictly the five pillars, the Hadith, the Sharia Law, and have treated unbelievers the same. At this point in time, Shia's make up probably less than 20% of all Muslims world-wide. Sunni already dominates the Muslim world without question.

The great Ottoman Empire only ended less than 100 years ago at the end of World War I. They aligned with Germany and issued Jihad against Russia, England, and France. They committed atrocities then that rival Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Maoist China decades later.

Sunni and Shia agreed to work together against the common enemy of secularism and 20th century colonialism post WWI. They have done so in the past including during the various Crusades and during the invasions of Eastern Europe. Once they regain dominant Islamic state control of a region, then they revert to their petty ancient dispute and continue to kill each other.

Most Ramadan's in the last 10 years still see more murders of other Muslims than Christians, Jews, Hindu's, or Buddhists, but that is changing.

The Shia sect are no more accommodating to Jews or Christians than the Sunni. After all Hezbollah and Iran are Shia, and they are no friend to Israel or Christianity.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 08:18 AM

4. The rebels murdering the Christians today are Sunni Wahabbists.

Everybody knows that.

The Shia are on the side that are fighting the Wahabbis.

The extremists streaming into Europe are Wahabbis.

Saudi Arabia and Iran are mortal enemies. They're not going to reconcile.

You can attempt to rewrite modern history but we can all see with our own eyes what's going on.

If the Shia and Christians are wiped out by the rebels, will it benefit our financial elites? Most definitely.

Will it benefit humanity? Unlikely.

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Response to Cyberpunk (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 09:34 AM

5. The only one ignoring history is you.

Jesus, stop spouting the pathetic progressive leftist propaganda.

In Lebanon for example, Christians have sided with both Sunni's and Shia's in order to survive. Why? Two reasons.

One, Sunni's reject Wahabbism as extremist, even though both Sunni's and Shiites are fundamentalist at their very core, proponents of Jihad, and theocratic in their approach to Sharia. Take Indonesia as a perfect example of this. Wahabbist rebels are constantly targeted by Sunni leaders. Yet, the Sunni government there has implemented atrocious extremes of Sharia including canings and stonings to death for minor marital offenses that should appall any modern secular or religious Westernere. Any alliances are simply that, for survival, with an uncertain future no matter how it turns out.

Christians are a lower population minority in both regions making fragile alliances with both to survive ISIS but just as persecuted under both Shia and Sunni majorities through out history.

Shiites are even paying Christians in Lebanon to fight ISIS. Do you think they are doing that out of compassion or love for Chistians? If you do, then you are an ignorant fool.

This article details well the fragile fear that Christians have faced in the ME for over a hundred years. Asad is Shia, Mubarak and Hussein were both Sunni's.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/mid-easts-christians-intro/

This is not about 'financial elites' playing some 10th dimensional chess game!

Europe was split during the Crusades. Western Europe recognized the dangers of Islam especially after the People's Crusade resulted in 38,000 massacred in one fell swoop and the remaining 2,000 sold into slavery. Eastern Europe was afraid and offered appeasement. The history of the Crusades is as much about war between Islam and the Western European empire as it is a conflict between Eastern and Western Europe over how to deal with Islam.

The roles have simply reversed today. Eastern Europe saw the costs ultimately of appeasement as it fell to the Ottoman Empire and remained that way for centuries. Western Europe pushed Islam out of Spain in the 13th Century and felt victorious and unconcerned from then on. Now we have Eastern Europe fighting back, refusing to allow a Muslim Bosniak state, refusing to allow in 'economic migrants (who are not just Wahabist!), and putting their own military now on alert on their borders. Western Europe is in appeasement mode. It believes that it can invite these Muslims in with open arms and make peace. It is folly.

The US once understood this especially after the Barbary Wars. But for the last fifty years we have acted the same, both parties, trying to selectively choose allies from both Sunni and Shia sources to fight the worst extremism of Wahabbism. And each time, it has resulted in blowblack. Shiites are no more our friends in the end then Sunni's. Wahabbism has been around as long as this country. It will be there for the foreseeable future.

The 'financial elites' always make money off of war and chaos until it finally bites them in the ass. This was true of Christians and Jews who sided with Islam in Spain in the 11th and 12th centuries only to be exiled or killed when Ferdinand and Isabella retook Spain. The Inquisition was part of the 'cleansing' of those parasites. Unfortunately, we are long way from that occurring today.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:09 AM

6. Europeans slaughtered millions of Jewish people in the last century

so your appreciation of recent history and attempt at scaremongering is inaccurate.

If there is to be a new Caliphate it will be ruled by our allies in Saudi Arabia and Turkey who we've supplied with billions of dollars worth of weaponry.

You are parroting the neocon line which, while it has its adherents, is losing support.

They are the ones supporting the extremists who are slaughtering Christians and they don't give a damn about them.

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Response to Cyberpunk (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:29 AM

7. OFFS, Germans killed fewer Jews

in the Holocaust than Russians & Chinese slaughtered their own citizens last century and less Christians and Jews than Islam has done through out its entire history. Additionally as many non-Jews died in the Nazi Holocaust as did Jews - about 6 million each.

So this is just a bullshit red herring.

I am not parroting a neocon line. You obviously don't even know what that means. Neocons are former leftists who believe in American exceptionalism and hegemony after 'winning' the Cold War. They seek economic goals by imperialistic designed war based on nationalistic ideologies. They seek alignments with neoliberals in those economic globalist goals.

I don't support Saudi Arabia or Turkey.

I am so sick of supposedly intelligent people ignoring history and thinking that any fucking warning about the dangers of Sharia Law, political Islam, and Jihad is 'scaremongering'. Go read some early Founding Father's writings on Islam and the Barbary Pirates. They got it. Read Twain. Read, read, read, and stop letting the propaganda seep into your obviously intelligent brain.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:34 AM

8. I've been warning about Isis since the beginning of DI and even before that on DU.

But if people don't see who's supporting and nurturing these extremists then we'll never defeat them.

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Response to Cyberpunk (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 31, 2017, 02:29 AM

10. Good!

Few have on the left. But it is not just ISIS. They are only the newest incarnation of Sunni extremism. But it was Shiite extremism behind Hezbollah and the Marine tower bombing in the 1980's. Neither are our friends or our allies.

The mistake is that everyone is supporting them. Both parties in the US, the EU, hell, even Pope Francis is pushing extreme ecumenism, which may be spiritually important but it is not politically smart.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 30, 2017, 11:51 AM

9. So... If the ideology and funds to spread sharia law come from Saudi Arabia

what do we do about it?

And if the open borders policy is promoted by western politicians, what do we do about?

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Response to Cyberpunk (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 31, 2017, 11:48 AM

11. Sharia Law is Islam.

It is not unique to one sect or one country with regards to promoting it, pimping it, or funding it.

The only effective stop for it is our Constitution. Canada and Europe lack it and therefore Sharia courts are growing fast there.

As long as we stop Islam and Sharia from being normalized here by the likes of Sarsour and others, we can make an inhospitable environment for it to take root. Recognize that Islam has in the 20th century sided almost exclusively with totalitarian and authoritarian regimes that swept from Germany to Russia from Nazism to Communism.

Open borders policies are liberal politicians. Openness is their core psychological trait. It has gone to extremes. Whether I or anyone else likes it, we need the closedness of conservatism right now to halt the influx, reduce the numbers, vet for actual refugees, and over-turn the policies. That is why I, as a leftist, support immigration reform from the right instead of the open borders immigration policy of the left.

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