Culturehumannature

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 03:04 PM

"It means we kill"

Occupying the top of the food chain is a very hard place to be. It means we kill.
We kill other species, we kill our own species. We cannot take the time to be introspective, because it's them or us, so we kill. I'm not only talking about animal species, we kill weeds, we kill grass, we kill insects, mostly because they are not in the place we want them to be. So we kill them, no bother anymore.

Humans are the only species on the face of this earth to be such indiscriminate killers. Humans are the only species on the face of this planet to have religion or philosophy which ironically teaches us not to kill. Killing must be an inherent trait.

We preach tolerance, love, understanding, that's all bullshit. It just makes us feel better. We need to kill. The sooner we accept that fact the better we will be.

I read today on this board we should be able to see the pictures of the dead. The dead of our wars, the dead of the plane crash because then when forced to look at the carnage, we may become sane. We may not want to kill after we see those graphic images. We may stop the killing. Bull.

What you don't get when you see pictures is the smell of death. The copper-like odor of blood, the smell of the elimination of body waste, the retching odor of decomposition. The lingering stench of charcoaled bodies, burnt beyond our comprehension. Once you experience that...you may become a little more of a pacifist.

Until we can understand why we kill, why we need to kill, we will never stop. There will be wars, we will hunt, we will slap insects, we will eliminate the undesirable plants in our midst. We will continue to kill.

Humans are a despicable species. Think of all the terrible things we are capable of, torture, murder, we revel in it, we glorify it. We entertain ourselves with our atrocities in movies, tv shows, literature.

We are capable of so much more. Look at the strides we have made understanding our world, understanding the universe we live in. Simply amazing. Yet we bypass the understanding of our very selves. What will it take? When will we say enough?

I have no answers, only questions.

30 replies, 2060 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply "It means we kill" (Original post)
RiverHawk Jul 2014 OP
Tarzan Jul 2014 #1
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #11
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #19
Tarzan Jul 2014 #22
Troll2 Jul 2014 #2
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #12
docgeezer Jul 2014 #3
LuvPie Jul 2014 #6
docgeezer Jul 2014 #8
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #13
Troll2 Jul 2014 #27
rampartb Jul 2014 #4
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #17
rampartb Jul 2014 #21
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #24
kc_tim Jul 2014 #5
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #14
batcat Jul 2014 #7
docgeezer Jul 2014 #9
whyareyouthinking Jul 2014 #10
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #16
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #15
batcat Jul 2014 #28
Da Mannn Jul 2014 #18
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #20
whyareyouthinking Jul 2014 #23
RiverHawk Jul 2014 #25
whyareyouthinking Jul 2014 #26
smoke check Jul 2014 #29
LexTalionis Jul 2014 #30

Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 03:29 PM

1. Nice post. Well thought out.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you it's Obama's fault.

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Response to Tarzan (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:19 PM

11. Not yet, but of course.

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Response to Tarzan (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:31 PM

19. Thank you.

Killed enough in my lifetime.
Time to make other think.

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Response to RiverHawk (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:40 PM

22. Or time to make another drink.

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 03:39 PM

2. We also reproduce

Our ancestors were the ones that killed better and reproduced faster than the competition.

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Response to Troll2 (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:22 PM

12. Really?

Just explains everything. Think ya missed the point of the post.
No disrespect.

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 04:45 PM

3. Yes, we kill.

However, almost all animals, and some plants, kill. Most kill to eat, because that is the nature of most species. Only plants, as far as I know, can survive through photosynthesis. Some kill to hold territory. Some kill for mates, so that their genes can be propagated. I once read somewhere that only tigers and humans kill for pleasure, just because they can. But what sets humans apart is that only they are disturbed by it (at least as far as I know), so there is hope.

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Response to docgeezer (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 04:53 PM

6. Others kill for pleasure, also

Why else would a dog kill a cat? They don't eat them. They're not a threat to them. They don't compete for mates with them. Yet, I've witnessed it twice. Once it was my own cat that was killed and left for dead by a dog. The second time my own gentle dog did the killing of a tiny kitten.

Chickens are cannibals. If one gets injured, the others will pile on and will actually eat the injured bird.

Everything living kills. It will kill to eat and sometimes for pleasure. Herbivores will kill whatever green is growing by eating it down to and including the roots.

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Response to LuvPie (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 05:37 PM

8. You're right, I hadn't thought of that.

It may be a result of evolutionary pressures where survival required successful competition for scarce resources. Some herbivores, sheep for instance, eat down to the roots, but I doubt it's due to a desire to kill the plants. I think they just want as much food as they can get. I still think that, since humans worry about all this killing, our species may eventually find another way to survive.

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Response to docgeezer (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:23 PM

13. Plants and other animals...

Don't torture. Explain that!

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Response to RiverHawk (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 07:12 PM

27. A cat can get a lot of amusement out of a wounded mouse or bird.

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 04:47 PM

4. it means we cooperate

being human is not some libertarian dog eat dog fight for evolutionary superiority.

chimps cooperate, early hominids cooperate, families, clans, tribes, teams, communities cooperate. yes, armies cooperate.

we are the planet's top predators because we have learned, generation by bloody generation, to cooperate in larger and larger groups. the process is ongoing.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:29 PM

17. Yet we do not learn...

We still kill, torture, etc. explain that.

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Response to RiverHawk (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:33 PM

21. "we" do not evolve at the same rate.

we do not mature at the same rate, either.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:46 PM

24. Please explain it sounds interesting.

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 04:48 PM

5. It means we succeed where others fail

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Response to kc_tim (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:24 PM

14. Succeed in being an ass to the rest of the world?

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 05:19 PM

7. The sad part is that our technology makes leaps and bounds during periods of war ...

For example radar:

History of radar

The history of radar starts with experiments by Heinrich Hertz in the late 19th century that showed that radio waves were reflected by metallic objects. This possibility was suggested in James Clerk Maxwell's seminal work on electromagnetism. However, it was not until the early 20th century that systems were able to use these principles were becoming widely available, and it was German inventor Christian Hülsmeyer who first used them to build a simple ship detection device intended to help avoid collisions in fog (Reichspatent Nr. 165546). Numerous similar systems, which provided directional information to objects over short ranges, were developed over the next two decades.

***snip***

Progress during the war was rapid and of great importance, probably one of the decisive factors for the victory of the Allies. A key development was the magnetron in the UK, which allowed the creation of relatively small systems with sub-meter resolution. By the end of hostilities Great Britain, Germany, the United States, the USSR, and Japan had a wide diversity of land- and sea-based radars as well as small airborne systems. After the war, radar use was widened to numerous fields including: civil aviation, marine navigation, radar guns for police, meteorology and even medicine. Key developments in the post-war period include the travelling wave tube as a way to produce large quantities of coherent microwaves, the development of signal delay systems that led to phased array radars, and ever-increasing frequencies that allow higher resolutions. Increases in signal processing capability due to the introduction of solid state computers has also had a large impact on radar use....emphasis added
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radar

If we were a more peaceful species, we would lack much of the technology we have today.

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Response to batcat (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 05:41 PM

9. You're probsably right.

I had hoped that the space program would provide another, more peaceful path to technological advancement, and it has to some extent, but the fear of death that war provides is still a stronger goad than curiosity.

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Response to docgeezer (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:17 PM

10. the powerful fear losing their power. thus they willingly dump their money into R&D during wartime.

during peacetime technological development becomes a threat to the status quo, thus is it discouraged.

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Response to docgeezer (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:28 PM

16. Amen bro.

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Response to batcat (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:27 PM

15. Think so?

Read more. Sci-fi novels will be your best friend.

Yes war does lead to better weapons and tech. But you really think a peaceful society would not lead to better tech?
Think outside the boundaries.

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Response to RiverHawk (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 07:23 PM

28. If we didn't have aggressive tendencies, I feel that while we would no longer be living in caves ..

ww would not have advanced to our current level of technology.

I suspect that any civilization in our universe with the ability to travel through space will have suffered periods of warfare in its past. A civilization that takes too long to develop will likely be destroyed by a catastrophic event such as an asteroid impact or the eruption of a super volcano. Scientists feel that such an extinction event occurred 70,000 years ago on our planet when a super volcano exploded in Sumatra. Possibly only 2000 of our species survived. http://io9.com/5501565/extinction-events-that-almost-wiped-out-humans

But technology developed by warfare has a major drawback. Eventually the civilization achieves a level of technology that enables it to cause its own extinction. We are at that point.

Overcoming our tendency to fight with each other is the major test we have to pass before we can successfully populate our solar system and to journey to the stars.

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:29 PM

18. We're on top because we are BETTER than the rest.

I'm better than animals and plants. I think. I am sentient. That puts me light years beyond even whales and chimps.

You are wrong when you call the works of man, random acts of killing. There is nothing random about it at all.
We are shaping the environment to better suit us.Farms employ a monoculture because growing vast quantities of one plant is efficient and convenient.

We are not hunter gatherers, nor will we go back to that. Farming freed humanity to pursue higher achievements. Sure vast areas of the natural world had to be changed/killed, but too bad. We are humans, we win, you lose.
If a tree, a weed, or a mouse dies...I won't cry. They were in my way.

Humanity is evolving the biosphere. This is not something to fear, this is NATURAL to humanity.
Just be thankful that we have grown an ecological conscience at the same time great power has come to us.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:32 PM

20. Wow, just wow!

What human exceptionalism.

If a plant was "better" than you... It would be ok to die because of its awesomeness.

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Response to Da Mannn (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:45 PM

23. <puts "serious time" hat on>

destroying anything without necessity is the negligence of resource. to be the king is to utilize to your advantage through understanding, not to destroy.

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Response to whyareyouthinking (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 06:58 PM

25. Thx

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Response to RiverHawk (Reply #25)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 07:03 PM

26. i think ringo starr said that once upon a time or something

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 07:54 PM

29. Conflict is merely the natural of order of things.

Always has been always will be. Creatures that are not at the top, herbivores even engage in vicious conflicts for food and territory. The good news for us is that the universe seems to be infinite, full of rocks, and at least locally empty and quiet.

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Response to RiverHawk (Original post)

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 09:23 PM

30. It's the natural order of things.

If you believe in a God it's how we were created. If you believe in Nature its how we evolved. Humans are, by nature, violent, ignorant, selfish beings. There will never be "peace on Earth and goodwill toward Men".

I was taught that one day the Lion would lay down with the Lamb. That may be true, but when the Lion gets hungry what's he going to eat?

You said: "Think of all the terrible things we are capable of, torture, murder, we revel in it, we glorify it. We entertain ourselves with our atrocities in movies, tv shows, literature. "

There is your answer. Humans love that stuff. We are a violent people.

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