Cultureculturesnopescaliforniaauthoritarianism1984bravenewworldbillofrights

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 02:07 AM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (TM999) on Tue Apr 23, 2019, 02:23 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
TM999 Apr 2018 OP
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #1
TM999 Apr 2018 #2
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #3
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #4
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #5
TM999 Apr 2018 #7
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #10
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #21
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #20
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #11
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #28
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #31
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #32
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #33
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #34
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #35
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #56
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #62
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #64
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #66
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #67
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #69
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #75
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #76
TM999 Apr 2018 #41
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #57
TM999 Apr 2018 #58
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #60
TM999 Apr 2018 #61
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #19
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #18
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #17
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #16
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #15
Daves Not Here Man Apr 2018 #6
TM999 Apr 2018 #8
Daves Not Here Man Apr 2018 #9
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #25
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #24
foia Apr 2018 #12
Daves Not Here Man Apr 2018 #13
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #23
Ilovestx Apr 2018 #27
kc_tim Apr 2018 #36
Ilovestx Apr 2018 #39
kc_tim Apr 2018 #40
foia Apr 2018 #37
Ilovestx Apr 2018 #38
TM999 Apr 2018 #47
Ilovestx Apr 2018 #48
TM999 Apr 2018 #49
Ilovestx Apr 2018 #50
TM999 Apr 2018 #51
TM999 Apr 2018 #42
Ilovestx Apr 2018 #44
TM999 Apr 2018 #45
Ilovestx Apr 2018 #46
SatansSon666 Apr 2018 #29
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #22
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #14
Charlie Mike Apr 2018 #26
Bird Watcher Apr 2018 #30
TM999 Apr 2018 #43
oldenuff35 Apr 2018 #52
PapasOldShoe Apr 2018 #53
TM999 Apr 2018 #54
PapasOldShoe Apr 2018 #55
TM999 Apr 2018 #59
HerasHeaddress Apr 2018 #63
Horsefeathers Apr 2018 #65
TM999 Apr 2018 #68
Duke Lacrosse Apr 2018 #71
TM999 Apr 2018 #73
Duke Lacrosse Apr 2018 #77
TM999 Apr 2018 #78
Duke Lacrosse Apr 2018 #70
TM999 Apr 2018 #74
Zappa Dappa Doo Apr 2018 #72

Response to TM999 (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 04:48 AM

1. If it stops the pray the gay away camps for kids,

It's a move in the right direction.
If it stifles free speech is another question.
I don't think forcing underage kids to try to change their sexually falls under free speech.
They aren't gonna ban the bible.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:03 AM

2. It stifles not only free speech

but freedom of religion as well.

There are two perspectives here. One says it is not right for parents and their communities to 'force' children to not be gay. The other says it is not right for the state and the public schools to 'force' children to accept homosexuality and transgenderism as pseudo-science.

As it stands, the state of California has decided that they will compel speech and force the pseudo-science of LGBTism on the public without any options to opt out, decline, or resist. And if that were not enough, now they will shut down anyone who writes, speaks, or teaches a religious viewpoint in opposition to the state religion.

This is a Constitutional failure that will be settled with SCOTUS in time.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:10 AM

3. I don't think it stops anyone from saying anything.

Just that priests and others shouldn't be the ones trying to 'save' anyone.
They can still say homosexualiry is a sin, they can still say you'll go to hell for gay sex. They just won't be able to run these awful places.

Like you said though, if there is a speech issue or freedom of religion issue, which could be argued for the pray the gay away camps, SCOTUS will kill it.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:13 AM

4. If people consent to going to therapy what makes the therapy awful?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:33 AM

5. It doesn't restrict adults from making that decision.

If a kid doesn't want to go he can be forced to go.
I don't call that shit therapy. It's nonsense. Priests/ministers aren't therapists.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:46 AM

7. Read the bills.

Yes, they do. And this one adds the censorship of even discussing, teaching or publishing anything from a religious perspective that questions the LGBTism.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:54 AM

10. Yeah. I'll have to go over them.

If that's the case, I can't see it surviving SCOTUS.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #10)


Response to TM999 (Reply #7)


Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:33 AM

11. That's your bias.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:09 AM

28. No. That's a fact.

Going through seminary doesn't qualify a person to fuck with someones brain. It doesn't qualify them to try to change their sexuality or any of that.
They are qualified to take confession, yap about Jesus, hand out crackers and perform weddings and funerals.
That's about it.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:29 AM

31. Clergy have long been counselors. You refusal to recognize that fact is not a basis for law.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:42 AM

32. Counselors are not therapists.

Giving advice based on an old book isn't diagnosing and treating mental illnesses.
So if a priest says he can treat a gay person. . He's full of shit.
If you went to confession and the priest said you were bi-polar, would you take his word for it?
If you were diagnosed with bi-polar disorder by a doctor, would you go to a priest for treatment?
I hope not.

These people think they can cast out demons in exorcisms, they aren't all there themselves if you ask me. But I'm not a doctor.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:47 AM

33. You have a very narrow view of the training clergy undertake.

Most seminaries require advanced degrees in not just theological studies but practical disciplines as well.

And some licensed mental health professionals are also people of faith. They too would be excluded by the law based on religious bias.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #33)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:54 AM

34. I just don't trust anyone that thinks

They can say a magic spell and cast demons out of people. Not with mental health issues, that's for sure.
Anyone that does that has no business telling anyone else they can cure their mental illness.

Sure some professional therapists believe in god or may even be clergy, that's not the same thing.
If you have a professional therapist that believes you can 'pray the gay away' they should have their license revoked immediately.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #34)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:56 AM

35. Would you feel relieved or further frustrated to learn the clergy do not believe

they can say a magic spell to cast demons out of people with mental health issues?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 04:43 AM

56. I'd be relieved.

However several of them do believe demons can possess humans and by saying some magic spells and using special enchanted water they can remove the demons.
People have died from it.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #56)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 07:31 AM

62. "several of them" so out goes the entire bucket.

People have died from from secular medicine as well. Some horrific experiments completely devoid of any religious supposition or moral sentiment have been conducted on an industrial scale.

What's a person to do?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #62)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 07:45 AM

64. If modern medicine kills you, something obviously went wrong.

Allergic reactions and shit like that, human error. There could be repercussions for that as well.

Starving a teenaged girl to death while chanting magic spells and throwing enchanted water on her because of some primitive belief in magic spells and demons isn't the same thing.
People like that (performers of exorcisms) need help.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #64)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 07:55 AM

66. I read not long ago that hospitals in the US kill close to 100,000 people annually.

"Starving a teenaged girl to death while chanting magic spells and throwing enchanted water on her because of some primitive belief in magic spells and demons isn't the same thing."

What percentage of the homosexual counselling services rely on such techniques?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #66)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 08:04 AM

67. I was saying that

People that perform exorcisms have no business providing mental health care or counseling to anyone.
It is them that need the help.
Not all clergy perform exorcisms but I bet most of then believe it is true.
Magic isn't real. Demons aren't real. You can't enchant water to give it magical powers.
So I simply do not trust anyone that does those things. They aren't right in the head.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #67)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 09:11 AM

69. The OP is not about exorcism.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #69)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 05:09 PM

75. nope. conversations shift.

I brought up exorcism as a reason that priests shouldn't be counseling/providing therapy to gay folks.
That's all.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #75)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 05:21 PM

76. Abuse does not abolish the use.

Tremendous atrocities have been committed in the name of scientific research. It would obviously be foolish to use that as an excuse for a blanket prohibition.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #34)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:58 PM

41. Like your compatriot you

Last edited Thu Apr 26, 2018, 05:17 AM - Edit history (1)

have a flawed and rather literalistic view of religion and religious people in this country. There are thousands of chaplains of all denominations. There are tens of thousands of pastoral counselors of all denominations. There are tens of thousands of licensed mental health professionals of all denominations.

Until the 1970's, psychology understood that homosexuality was an aberration and treatable. I received my training and supervision before transgenderism was politically changed from a personality disorder to a 'just born that way' pseudoscience. Thanks but no thanks, our licenses are quite valid and not up for revocation because we disagree with the liberal fad de jour. In the 1970's everyone was MPD and it was acceptable. In the 1980's, everyone was molested by secret Satanic cults out of daycare facilities. In the 1990's, BPD was not only curable (which it is not) but anyone who had it was actually A-OK. In the 2000's everyone and their brother and sister were somewhere on the Autism spectrum and A-OK. Now in the teens, there are now suddenly thousands of new transgenders and it is A-OK.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #41)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 04:46 AM

57. Are you licensed the therapist that thinks people choose to be gay?

Or transexual, bi, straight or whatever? Hope not.
I said I agreed that there were clergy that are also therapists.
I also said anyone that thinks they can cast magic spells to remove demons from people shouldn't be therapists, they fucking need therapists.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #57)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 05:36 AM

58. I am a licensed psychologist

that knows that no one chooses a mental illness. We treat mental illnesses, we don't normalize pathologies as is being done in much of the modern mental health profession of the 21st century.

Show me the real science proving that homosexuality and transgenderism are biologically based from birth. You won't be able to do so as there is no definitive proof despite ample research. There are some speculative genetic links but they are inconclusive.

The only reliable correlatives of male androphilia across many diverse cultures is having a high number of biological older brothers and high levels of separation anxiety from the primary care-giver. This is the mother almost 90% of the time. The two actually dovetail. A mother of eight children with five boys and three girls and the youngest turns out gay would fit this as the mother is not always capable of meeting the emotional needs of that many children. Strangely there is no correlation between separation anxiety and lesbianism.

But these correlates are not hard science. There is no sure genetic, biochemical, or hormonal variation that defines these abnormal expressions of human sexuality. Nor are there for pedophilia, voyeurism, sexual sadism, sexual masochism, asphyxiophilia or any of the over 100 identified sexual paraphilias. Some cause mental distress and others do not but they are all still psychologically based variants of normal human procreative sexuality.

Should homosexuals or transgenders be denied rights or treated with malice? Of course not. But elevating minority sexual variations to the level we have culturally over the last 40 years is proving to be problematic. If a client asks me to assist them with dealing with their homosexuality and not expressing it because it brings them distress, I am not being an ethical therapist if I deny them the treatment they seek. Being forced to not offer any therapeutic treatment protocol that is not inherently abusive or dangerous is not medicine, it is identity politics.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #58)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 05:43 AM

60. In what way would you consider homosexuality to be a mental illness?

I can only go by what gay people have told me when I asked them. They have just always felt that way. Some tried to have girlfriends but it just wasn't right. They were attracted to men.
It's weird to me, but other than their sexual attraction there is nothing different about them and you wouldn't even know unless they told you or you saw them with their boyfriend.
Sure there are some that are way out there in the way they dress and act, but every walk of life has people like that., that goto extremes with everything.
I don't think you can make someone gay or straight or anything else. I know nobody could make me gay, I know gay parents that raised straight kids, so it seems to be hardwired from my experience.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #60)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 06:05 AM

61. In what way is any paraphelia a mental illness?

They are sexual abnormalities but they don't always cause individual or social distress. I have worked with pedophiliacs who were always that way. I have worked with sexual sadists and masochists that were always that way. There is nothing different about these individuals either. They are just not 'attracted' to partners in any other sexual way. They are doctors, lawyers, school teachers, and house wives. Many are not in distress and some are.

In the case of pedophilia we have determined as a society that it is not acceptable behavior. In the case of other paraphilias we have decided since the sexual revolution that they are no longer a detriment to society unless they cause harm or distress. But if they do cause distress, any individual should have the right to seek the treatment they so desire. And when our individual identities become solely defined by who we fuck, then we are definitely looking at a mental disorder including a collective one if society determines a person's identity visa vie sexual preference and expression is a defining characteristic worthy of changing society to cater to that phenomena.

I remember when gay marriage was about love. If two people love each other, no matter their attraction, they deserve to express it and not have it interfere with their familial lives. Now, however, we have compelled speech laws cropping up. We have censorship laws against books that discuss a different 'reality'. We have forced sex education of children in elementary school. We have 'gender neutral' bathrooms. We have 10 year old drag queens. This is not healthy for our society. Some of us see this, others do not.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #5)


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Response to TM999 (Reply #2)


Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #1)


Response to TM999 (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:38 AM

6. sweet. less thumping against gay people.

and then we can all sit quietly and stfu about others sex lives.

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Response to Daves Not Here Man (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:47 AM

8. Glad to know where you stand

on the Bill of Rights.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 05:48 AM

9. boo. hoo.

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Response to Daves Not Here Man (Reply #9)


Response to TM999 (Reply #8)


Response to Daves Not Here Man (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:50 AM

12. The gays need to STFU too

What's wrong with many (not all) of them is that they wrap their entire identity around what they do with their naughty bits.

They have fucking parades to celebrate it.

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Response to foia (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:25 AM

13. we should all learn to sit quietly and mind ones own business.

there is an infatuation with expressing ones lifestyle as loudly as possible.

From thumpers to gays and everything in between.

just be a good citizen.

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Response to Daves Not Here Man (Reply #13)


Response to foia (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:01 AM

27. The parades aren't about gay sex. LOL!!!!

The parades are about being PROUD to be a member of the LGBTQ community and to show young LGBTQ'ers that it is 100% OK to be LGBTQ!!!! They see tons of successful productive members of society marching in the parade.....cops, firemen, doctors, lawyers, bikers, etc.

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Response to Ilovestx (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 11:03 AM

36. Unfortunately, the flamers, freaks and weirdo's usually overshadow them.

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Response to kc_tim (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 01:36 PM

39. Nah!

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Response to Ilovestx (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 02:28 PM

40. Yeah

In fact, if not for them, more normal people would attend their parades.

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Response to Ilovestx (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 11:06 AM

37. Not about sex?

Of all people, you should know. Gayness has everything to do with sexual preference.

I take no pride in being heterosexual nor do I feel the need to broadcast my sexual prefrences in public. It's how I was born. It's not anything I accomplished therefore I have no reason to take pride in it.

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Response to foia (Reply #37)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 01:35 PM

38. Maybe if heterosexuals were in the minority you'd feel differently.

SMDH!

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Response to Ilovestx (Reply #38)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 06:26 PM

47. Deleting your posts now?

Are you and Bird Watcher cousins?

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Response to TM999 (Reply #47)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 06:32 PM

48. Too many snowflakes around who will hide any posts that are against a CON

even though the post doesn't violate the TOS. So, yeah, since I'm in the tiny minority here on DI, I will self delete posts as I see fit so a CON can't alert on them. Is that OK with you?

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Response to Ilovestx (Reply #48)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 06:46 PM

49. Sweetheart, the biggest alert posses are the liberals here.

I sure as shit won't alert your posts.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #49)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:24 PM

50. Believe it or not, I do believe you when you say that.

But I do disagree about who alerts more on this particular website.

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Response to Ilovestx (Reply #50)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:26 PM

51. My observations

and sitting on juries shows me that there is an edge with the left here on alerting.

I rarely, like once in the last 12 months, vote to hide any post I am called to a jury for.

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Response to Ilovestx (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 06:00 PM

42. Ever been to a Folsom street fair?

I have. It is a sick public display of all manner of sexual perversions with kids allowed into the mix.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #42)


Response to Ilovestx (Reply #44)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 06:10 PM

45. I have and you are wrong

if you believe that no one crosses the barriers who shouldn't be there.

Parents should not be allowed to bring their children to such an adult display of perversion.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #45)


Response to foia (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:11 AM

29. Lmao.

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Response to Daves Not Here Man (Reply #6)


Response to TM999 (Original post)


Response to TM999 (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:46 AM

26. Wow. BW obviously woke up still drunk.

How long until he passes out again?

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Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #26)


Response to Charlie Mike (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 06:01 PM

43. One more post hidden

and the little man is off the island. Well that is until his next sock goes active!

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Response to TM999 (Original post)

Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:51 PM

52. Snipes is two fat liberals sitting on a couch telling lies.

They have no background or education in research or ethical/honorable conduct.

They spew biased political propaganda and lies based on their left wing socialist beliefs and agenda.

My dogs have as much training as they do and are more honest.

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Response to TM999 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 04:07 AM

53. The Federalist writer is a blatant, outright liar.

 


Didn't we dance this dance already this month?

Oh yeah. We did.

https://www.discussionist.com/1016267092#post14

Next up:

Bill 2943 will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it will also delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computer.

It demagnetizes the stripes on ALL of your credit cards. It reprograms your ATM access code, screws up the tracking on your VCR and uses subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's you attempt to play. It will re-calibrate your refrigerator's coolness settings so all your ice cream melts and your milk curdles. It will program your phone autodial to call only your ex-spouses' number. This bill will mix antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all your beer. It will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you are expecting company. Its radioactive emissions will cause your bellybutton fuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your ears. It will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your back and billing their hotel rendezvous to your Visa card. It will cause you to run with scissors and throw things in a way that is only fun until someone loses an eye. It will give you Dutch Elm Disease and Psitticosis. It will rewrite your backup files, changing all your active verbs to passive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings which grossly change the interpretations of key sentences. It will leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged in dangerously close to a full bathtub. It will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses and pillows, but it will also refill your skim milk with whole milk. It will replace all your luncheon meat with Spam. It will molecularly rearrange your cologne or perfume, causing it to smell like dill pickles. It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. These are just a few signs of the end times.

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Response to PapasOldShoe (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 04:21 AM

54. But our friendly disbarred Canadian lawyer is not a liar?

Hmmm....which to believe is telling the truth?!

Sorry Ivy, you were wrong then and you are wrong now.

The language of the bill is overly broad and therefore open for Bill of Rights violations.

Your country doesn't have one but it does have compelled speech laws and tribunals for offenders. Stick to Canada sweetheart, we don't need your kind of bullshit here in the US.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #54)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 04:34 AM

55. Well, it certainly seems that our extremely angry RC convert is.

 


But of course, I don't believe that said person is all the things they say they are or believes any of the things they say they believe, any more than I believe that anyone else is what said person says they are.

Said person seems so ignorant of so much, and so willing to falsify so many things, that one is just left in a tizzy of disbelief, isn't one?



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Response to PapasOldShoe (Reply #55)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 05:40 AM

59. Spin spin spin dearest one.

You lie constantly. You deflect constantly. You try to project your bullshit on others constantly.

I would rather be 'an extremely angry RC convert' than a disbarred Canadian lawyer who keeps getting booted off of forum after forum. She has to resort to lies and the deception of sock accounts to keep posting because her life is so pathetic that she can't live without posting bullshit on a political forum.

You and your ilk have yet to prove me wrong on any topic here of substance, this one included.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #59)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 07:38 AM

63. You were alerted.

I can't imagine who would have done that.

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Response to TM999 (Reply #59)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 07:47 AM

65. A quoob just alerted on this*

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Response to Horsefeathers (Reply #65)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 08:07 AM

68. A sock is allowed to stand when

everyone knows who it is but God forbid if you call it out. Then it is alertable! Quoobs is right!

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Response to PapasOldShoe (Reply #53)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 02:09 PM

71. Even you are confused about AB 2943. Most of the text people are blathering about is EXISTING LAW.

AB 2943 is mostly punctuation changes, with one sentence added to clarify the "legislative intent." AB 2943 is a technical correction bill that makes NO substantive changes to the law.

So-called "conversion therapy" has been banned in California since 2012.

Bibles are not banned and never will be. That is obvious.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #71)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 04:38 PM

73. You actually don't know what you are talking about either

but I am not surprised.

The 'conversion therapy' ban from 2012 is SB1172.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201120120SB1172

This is the actual bill and it is ONLY about mental health professionals. Period.

AB2943 is hardly a 'punctuation changes' minor edit of the previous bill. It is not an edit of that bill whatsoever. It is in fact an addition to the California Consumer Legal Remedies Act. Here is AB2943.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB2943

It goes well beyond mental health practitioners and now includes anyone who may offer such services and/or goods. This means all religious leaders (Pastoral Counselors, Chaplains, ministers, priests, lay ministers, etc.), services they may offer (prayer groups, individualized prayer ministry, coaching, etc.), and tangible goods (books, audio recordings, videos, etc.). It now states that these are fraudulent, unfair, and unlawful practices.

It is overly broad as stated. It attempts to tie in science and psychology as the foundation for this change to consumer law. This first statement is:

(a) Contemporary science recognizes that being lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender is part of the natural spectrum of human identity and is not a disease, disorder, or illness.

No, science does not. The counseling field, however, does now under political pressure say that it is 'natural' and that conversion attempts are 'harmful'. This ignores, though, decades of psychological research, clinical research, and actual biological sciences.

Because of its overly broad nature, yes, any book could become verboten. It is extreme to say that the Bible could be but due to the language used, yes, it and plenty of other texts could be. The Roman Catholic Catechism states the following about homosexuality:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

This is at odds now with AB2943. Will this book be banned for sale? Will catechism classes that teach this be banned because it is does not bow down to the LGBTism of the CA Democratic Party?

This bill does strike at the heart of the Bill of Rights. It goes well beyond the scope of regulating mental health practitioners and now attempts to regulate all services and goods (books) that deal with homosexuality in an unfavorable way. It is, therefore, an affront to freedom of speech and freedom of religious expression.












https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB2943

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Response to TM999 (Reply #73)

Fri Apr 27, 2018, 07:22 PM

77. It doesn't apply to anyone who doesn't charge money for counseling services.

Read the first sentence of CIV 1770. Religious practitioners generally don't charge mandatory fees for counseling.

It doesn't apply to a well-meaning friend or a parent or a bartender advising a person to try to become heterosexual.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #77)

Fri Apr 27, 2018, 08:42 PM

78. Pastoral counselors, chaplains, and

ministers with therapist licenses do charge for their service. Workshops and retreats include costs. Books, videos, and audios are goods sold for profit even if that profit is for use by a church or ministry.

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Response to TM999 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 01:59 PM

70. LOL! Nevada also has a law that prohibits licensed therapists from doing "conversion therapy."

It's very similar to California's law, which has been on the books since 2012.

I own several bibles. A couple of them are in German. Last time I stayed in a hotel in Las Vegas there was a Gideon's Bible in the top drawer of the nightstand.

I can buy all the bibles I want, and I can say anything I want to anyone. So can everyone else in California. But licensed therapists can't offer a form of treatment that has been PROVEN ineffective and maybe even harmful.

AB 2943 doesn't ban anything. It's just a technical correction (mostly punctuation changes) to long-standing law.

Snopes is right.

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Response to Duke Lacrosse (Reply #70)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 04:39 PM

74. I just proved you were wrong.

Snopes is wrong.

The 2012 bill is different from the 2018 bill. Go actually read the fucking bills and then try your argument again.

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Response to TM999 (Original post)

Thu Apr 26, 2018, 03:22 PM

72. Just a look at the author of the article is enough to convince me that Snopes is right.

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks!

Robert A. J. Gagnon, PhD, is the author of "The Bible and Homosexual Practice" (Abingdon) and co-author of "Homosexuality and the Bible: Two Views" (Fortress). For 24 years he was a professor of New Testament at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary.

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