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Wed Jan 9, 2019, 05:59 PM

Your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox

The Fermi paradox, or Fermi's paradox, named after physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence and high probability estimates for the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations. The basic points of the argument, made by physicists Enrico Fermi (1901–1954) and Michael H. Hart (born 1932), are:

There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are similar to the Sun, and many of these stars are billions of years older than the Solar system.

With high probability, some of these stars have Earth-like planets, and if the Earth is typical, some may have developed intelligent life.

Some of these civilizations may have developed interstellar travel, a step the Earth is investigating now.

Even at the slow pace of currently envisioned interstellar travel, the Milky Way galaxy could be completely traversed in a few million years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

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Arrow 15 replies Author Time Post
Reply Your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox (Original post)
Charlie Mike Jan 2019 OP
Gunslinger201 Jan 2019 #1
Grebbid Jan 2019 #2
Gunslinger201 Jan 2019 #3
Muddling Through Jan 2019 #4
Cold Warrior Jan 2019 #5
CornFed Jan 2019 #6
Gunslinger201 Jan 2019 #8
WhiskeyMakesMeHappy Jan 2019 #7
Currentsitguy Jan 2019 #10
FreeWheelBurning Jan 2019 #13
SatansSon666 Jan 2019 #9
Currentsitguy Jan 2019 #11
Lowrider1984 Jan 2019 #12
SatansSon666 Jan 2019 #14
Currentsitguy Jan 2019 #15

Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 06:05 PM

1. We can detect Hydrocarbons and Water in Deep Space

Do the Math

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 06:11 PM

2. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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Response to Grebbid (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 06:12 PM

3. We don't know what we don't know

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 06:41 PM

4. What if we're the most advanced civilization in the universe?

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 06:46 PM

5. Thats essentially one of the explanations put forward

that we are a “first generation” civilisation.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 06:51 PM

6. Interesting read.

Personally, I don't believe earth being discovered/contacted by extraterrestrials would end up being a good thing. They'd only do so to harvest resources or eliminate a perceived threat (or both) so all living creatures would ultimately be destroyed, one way or another.

That is my opinion

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Response to CornFed (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 05:27 AM

8. Figures Bugs was right

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2019, 07:16 PM

7. There is also a theory that says, a civilization will advance to the point of self annihilation.

That no civilization will, or can, advance beyond that.

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Response to WhiskeyMakesMeHappy (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 09:11 AM

10. That is "L" in the Drake Equation.

It does not posit no civilizations progress beyond a certain point, but that a good number manage to wipe themselves out.

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Response to WhiskeyMakesMeHappy (Reply #7)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 12:42 PM

13. Logically speaking, you are correct

A civilization cannot advance past self annihilation.

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Response to Charlie Mike (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 08:34 AM

9. For me it boils down to this.

I figure there is plenty of life in the universe. Just none capable of making a trip to earth.

1. An intelligent species has to evolve.
2. This species has to develop the technology to find us in the vastness of the universe. With the billions and billion of solar systems just in our galaxy, they have to find us.
Depending on how far away they are will determine what time in earth's existence they can view earth.
3. This species will then have to invent a technology to travel to earth. Knowing full well it might not even exist anymore and certainly will not exist as they are viewing it.
4. The distances required to travel to investigate another planet are far too great for such an endeavor by a living organism. At best they would send probes or robots.
5. They have to wait perhaps a thousand years for a response from the probes, again depending on their distance from Earth.

So while there is a very high possibility of life on other planets or moons in the universe, the chances of them making it here are pretty close to 0. I won't say it's absolutely impossible, but extremely unlikely.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 09:21 AM

11. Also

In the greater scheme of things, we're just not all that interesting. Our chemical makeup is all rather commonly available elements, so our planet does not have anything worth coming for. In terms of colonization, it would be much easier to settle and possibly modify an uninhabited world than it would be to take an occupied one by force. One can assume no two worlds evolved with an exactly identical biochemical makeup, so most likely any new world with life would be largely at the least indigestible and more likely poisonous, right down to the microbes in the air.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 12:26 PM

12. You also must recognize what has been termed The Prime Directive.

Any life-form that has advanced to the stage of galactic exploration would consider Earth humans far too primitive to be contacted at this stage of our development. Obviously, if we were to be given advanced technology, the first thing we would do with it would be to weaponize it. We may well be under scientific observation, but First Contact would (and SHOULD) be far away from today. They are probably wagering on how long it will take us to destroy ourselves.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #11)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 12:50 PM

14. Yeah. They would have no clue what might harm them.

I assume they would have suits to protect them like our astronauts do.

I would think that their make up would be similar to ours. The most abundant elements would be available for life to begin on those planets.
Carbon based? Not necessarily but I would figure dependant on water.

That's just life as we know it so who's to say.

We aren't that interesting but to an alien species I like to think we'd be as interesting to them as they would be to us.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 10, 2019, 01:16 PM

15. Interesting to talk to and exchange ideas with, yes.

However, I don't think you cross hundreds or more light years of space, with all that entails even for a highly advanced civilization, to only visit. I gotta figure any trip like that is by necessity one way, which means you are going to want to maximize you chances of surviving and thriving once you get there.

That leaves you two choices. You either adapt the planet to you and your biology, or you adapt yourself to it.

I won't even attempt to impose human morality on any potential alien species, but I gotta figure any species advanced enough to take to the stars have some realization of the uniqueness and rarity of life, any life. So that narrows your choices to adapt yourself, if it happens to be a world with life, or, if you wish to remain whatever species you happen to be, chose a barren sterile world in your particular Goldilocks Zone and terraform it to your needs.

Again I'd rather not speculate what would drive other species into space, but I gotta figure it boils down to three choices. Escape from some cataclysm, territorial expansion, or curiosity and exploration.

I agree, it does not necessarily need to be carbon based. I can point to theoretical exobiology that show perfectly workable biologies that can breathe methane or even acetylene and be based on copper or several other elements.

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