Cultureselfdefense

Sat Apr 13, 2019, 06:35 PM

Law of Self Defense, was McDonalds Guard justified going for his Gun?



There’s a video making the internet rounds of an apparent security guard outside a McDonald’s being attacked by two young black men, and I’m being asked if the guard pointing his gun at the two was a lawful threat of deadly defensive force, on the one hand, or a crime, on the other.

Before we begin with the analysis, here’s the video:


Five Elements of a Self-Defense Claim

As I always tell folks this kind of use-of-force analysis isn’t rocket science—there are only five elements of a claim of self-defense: Innocence, Imminence, Proportionality, Avoidance, and Reasonableness. Every element is required (unless legally waived), and if any required element is missing, the claim of self-defense fails.

Innocence

We don’t know how the confrontation started, but for purposes of this discussion, I’m going to assume that the two young men were the initial aggressors, rather than the guard. Check this element in favor of the guard.

Imminence

A threat needs to be at least imminent, about to happen right now, in order for defensive force to be justified, but a fight that’s actually in progress clearly qualifies as well. Check this element in favor of the guard.

Proportionality

The guard ended up threatening the two men with deadly force—his pistol—and the law generally requires that the guard be facing a deadly force threat in order to be justified in using or threatening deadly defensive force. This, as well as the element of Reasonableness, are the key elements of this case, so we’ll cover this in more depth in a bit.

Avoidance

Even in the minority of states that impose a generalized legal duty to retreat, that duty is imposed only if a completely safe avenue of retreat is practically available. The nature and setting of this attack suggest that the guard had no practical means of completely safe retreat when he presented his handgun, so no legal duty to retreat would have applied even in a duty-to-retreat state.

In most states, of course, there is no generalized legal duty to retreat before defending yourself against an unlawful attack. Regardless of the jurisdiction in this case, then, we’ll check this element in favor of the guard.

Reasonableness

As mentioned, this element of Reasonableness, as well as Proportionality, are the key issues of this case, so we’ll cover them in more detail now


https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/04/law-of-self-defense-was-mcdonalds-guard-justified-in-going-to-his-gun/

This Guy was right on in the Trayvon case, he’s a real expert

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Reply Law of Self Defense, was McDonalds Guard justified going for his Gun? (Original post)
Gunslinger201 Apr 13 OP
Muddling Through Apr 13 #1
batcat Apr 13 #2
rahtruelies Apr 13 #3
joefriday6 Apr 13 #4
Grumpy Pickle Apr 13 #5
762Justice Apr 14 #6
oflguy Apr 14 #7
Gunslinger201 Apr 14 #8
Jardinier Apr 15 #9
Jardinier Apr 15 #10

Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Sat Apr 13, 2019, 06:44 PM

1. Well, lessee....

Nothing to indicate the victim did anything to provoke the attack; 2 on one clearly has the potential of inflicting serious bodily injury or death, the attack was going on at the moment; the victim appeared to be pinned against the wall and the other guard used his firearm to stop the attack and didn't shoot anyone leaving. It seems to pass the test.

The knucklehead attacking the first guard can be identified and prosecuted later. I hope they are.

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Sat Apr 13, 2019, 06:52 PM

2. Definitely legitimate self defense. (n/t)

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Sat Apr 13, 2019, 07:05 PM

3. the two pos are lucky to be alive

offing them would have been a community service

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:16 PM

4. Self-defense without question.

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:20 PM

5. Self defense.....period.

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Sun Apr 14, 2019, 11:39 AM

6. If you are in an area where there has to be an armed security guard at a McDonalds,

there are probably going to be plenty of legitimate self defense actions.

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Sun Apr 14, 2019, 11:42 AM

7. Notice when the sisthas started screaming no?

Not when the thugs were all over the guard, but when he pulled his gun to defend himself

typical

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Response to oflguy (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 14, 2019, 12:36 PM

8. Yeah, Lots of People noticed that


The Guy had Guts and a LOT of Self Restraint

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Response to oflguy (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 06:51 PM

9. That's what I was going to say. Fuck them.

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Mon Apr 15, 2019, 06:55 PM

10. What kind of place has to have armed guards?!!

But I do remember that sort of thing in DC 45 yrs ago. Armed guards and bullet proof glass with a little hole where your money went also to retrieve your grub.

When I came west I thought I was in another country.

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