Cultureculturecollusionmuller

Tue May 7, 2019, 04:58 PM

am i a "collusion truther?"

here is my copy of the muller report. on page 8, in the second paragraph of the actual document, the report clearly states that russians interfered with our 2016 election.

" The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion."

i am not stating that anyone conspired with vladamir putin to change votes or hack voting machines. i am merely asking "what are we doing, if anything, to prevent this sweeping and systematic interference from reocurring. and why not?"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/18/mueller-report-read-in-full-trump-russia-document-what-does-it-say

i'd also like a link to a non pdf version of the report. there are several relevant paragraphs of this document that may be more important to our democracy than fake antifas with chainsaws.

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:03 PM

1. The Question is did Trump collude with them? and that answer is no

IF you think the Russians and our country doesn't fuck with each others (and any number of other countries) elections then you're pretty naive.

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #1)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:15 PM

5. am i "naive" to think it is important to minimize this?

and i'm not sire the answer is no. the fact that trump's (an american oligarch) interests are aligned with those of russian oligarchs is unsurprising.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #5)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:19 PM

8. I'm sure those FB ads really REALLY turned the election

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #8)

Wed May 8, 2019, 10:40 AM

12. How about those FB ads for designer sunglasses? Does anybody buy them?

If micro targeted social media ads didn't work, you wouldn't be seeing them, and we'd all still be using MySpace.

The Trump campaign only needed to flip/suppress 66,000 votes in the Rust Belt states- completely plausible and possible, between Russian efforts, Cambridge Analytica, and the Trump Campaign's own efforts.

If Trump's FB was ineffective, then why did Trump hire Brad Parscale, his 2016 social media manager, to run his entire 2020 campaign?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy-BC (Reply #12)

Wed May 8, 2019, 12:43 PM

14. you're laboring under the delusion that people didn't know and loathe Hillary

She out spent him 2 to 1 and lost, FB ads played no part in this election IMHO

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Response to Solesurvivor (Reply #14)

Wed May 8, 2019, 08:46 PM

17. Then why is Parscale managing the entire campaign this time?

If his FB micro targeted ads weren't effective enough (remember, just 66,000 votes), why would Trump trust him this time?

And yes, that fact that HRC is loathed by so many made her just vulnerable enough for a narrow loss in the Rust Belt.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #5)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:20 PM

9. But with no joking intent the Russians played no part in me voting for Trump

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:05 PM

2. Sweeping?

LOL.

Macron tried to influence our election by endorsing Hillary. Do you have an issue with that attempt to influence our election by a foreign government?

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Response to kc_tim (Reply #3)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:10 PM

4. thank you

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:17 PM

6. 'sweeping and systematic' lol

Dramatic descriptors for basically nothing.

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:19 PM

7. I recommend you read this

Emmet T. Flood, special counsel to President Trump, has sent a letter to Attorney General Barr. Although Barr is the addressee, Robert Mueller is the main target. The letter is a blistering attack on Mueller’s report with a shot at James Comey thrown in.

The suffers from an extraordinary legal defect: It quite deliberately fails to comply with the requirements of governing law.

What prosecutors are supposed to do is complete an investigation and then either ask the grand jury to return an indictment or decline to charge the case. When prosecutors decline to charge, they make that decision not because they have “conclusively determin that no criminal conduct occurred,” but rather because they do not believe that the investigated conduct constitutes a crime for which all the elements can be proven to the satisfaction of a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

In the American justice system, innocence is presumed: there is never any need for prosecutors to “conclusively determine” it. Nor is there any place for such a determination. Our country would be a very different (and very dangerous) place if prosecutors applied the standard and citizens were obliged to prove “conclusively. . .that no criminal conduct occurred.”

he inverted-proof standard and “exoneration” statements can be understood only as political statements, issuing from persons (federal prosecutors) who in our system of government are rightly expected never to be political in the performance of their duties.

The second big problem with Mueller’s report is that it didn’t do the one job Mueller was tasked with. Under the relevant regulation, his duty was to “provide the Attorney General with a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions reached by the Special Counsel.” 28 C.F.R. Section 600.8(c). But on the question of obstruction of justice, Mueller made neither a prosecution decision nor a declination decision. Thus, says Flood, “none of the Report’s Volume II complied with the obligation imposed by the governing regulation to ‘explain[] the prosecution or declination decisions reached.'”

The instead produced a prosecutorial curiosity — part “truth commission” report and part law school exam paper. Far more detailed than the text of any known criminal indictment or declination memorandum, the Report is laden with factual information that has never been subjected to adversarial testing or independent analysis. That information is accompanied by a series of inexplicably inconclusive observations (inexplicable, that is, coming from a prosecutor) concerning the possible application of law to fact. This species of public report has no basis in the relevant regulations and no precedent in the history of special/independent counsel investigations.

The criminal investigation began with a breach of confidentiality executed by a very senior administration official who was himself an intelligence service chief. This leak of confidential information, personally directed by the former Director of the FBI, triggered the creation of itself — precisely as it was intended to do.

Not so long ago, the idea that a law enforcement official might provide the press with confidential governmental information for the proclaimed purpose of prompting a criminal investigation of an identified individual would have troubled Americans of all political persuasions. That the head of our country’s top law enforcement agency has actually done so to the President of the United States should frighten every friend of individual liberty.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/05/a-letter-to-william-barr.php

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:40 PM

10. I believe Trump is doing at least as much as Obama

did to prevent it.

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Tue May 7, 2019, 05:53 PM

11. No, however

This should not be shocking everyone, the russkies have been interfering in our elections since the 80s at least, and we interfere in other countries election. Obama sent his campaign team to Israel to interfere in their election. Hardly made the news.

Russia will interfere in the next one and the next and so will the Chinese, etc, etc. It's spy vs spy, it's what nations do.

BTW, the most egregious example of election interference was the election of 1940 (FDR) and it was our supposed ally Great Britain. Hundreds if not thousands of Americans precipitated in and cooperated with the SIS (Brit spy agency).

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/when-a-foreign-government-interfered-in-a-us-electionto-reelect-fdr-214634

The big difference not one single American worked with the Ruskies to interfere in the election.

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Response to def_con5 (Reply #11)

Wed May 8, 2019, 10:48 AM

13. Actually at LEAST one American worked with the Russians and was charged by Meuller

Richard Pinedo plead guilty and was sentenced to 6 months in prison

If Russian interference in the next election is a given, and we know they favor Trump, what should be done about?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy-BC (Reply #13)

Wed May 8, 2019, 01:00 PM

15. What we've always done

Try and stop em. There has been a spy war going on for 50 years,sometimes we win, sometimes the bad guys win.

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Response to def_con5 (Reply #15)

Wed May 8, 2019, 08:50 PM

18. Should we try harder than Obama did in 2016?

I mean Obama put some pretty severe sanctions in place to both punish and hopefully dissuade Putin from trying again in 2020, which have now been removed or ignored by Trump.

As far as I know, there is no increased funding, staffing or other measures to try and stop Russian interference in 2020. As far as I know, there isn't even a plan in place.

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Wed May 8, 2019, 01:45 PM

16. The world's greatest president says election interference is nonsense.

And the Obama administration was keeping watch over the 2016 election. So you know everything was okay. Hope and change.

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