Culturecultureanotherarrestofpeacefulconservative

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 05:50 AM

responsible gun owner threatens aoc

i'm interested in the "illegal ammunition." what is this, like armor piercing or hollow point?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-ohio-man-charged-threat-ocasio-cortez-ammunition-20190809-xzomlq2cfjdi5egayzv6duf7am-story.html

19 replies, 312 views

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Reply responsible gun owner threatens aoc (Original post)
rampartb Aug 10 OP
Gunslinger201 Aug 10 #1
rampartb Aug 10 #2
Gunslinger201 Aug 10 #3
rampartb Aug 10 #5
Gunslinger201 Aug 10 #7
rampartb Aug 10 #9
Gunslinger201 Aug 10 #10
Iron Condor Aug 11 #11
rampartb Aug 11 #12
Banshee 3 Actual Aug 12 #14
Tovera Aug 13 #19
762Justice Aug 12 #15
rampartb Aug 12 #16
quad489 Aug 10 #4
Oldgeezer Aug 10 #6
quad489 Aug 10 #8
Banshee 3 Actual Aug 12 #13
rampartb Aug 12 #17
Banshee 3 Actual Aug 12 #18

Response to rampartb (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 05:51 AM

1. Its Ok to threaten Trump Voters but they freak when they get pushback

Enjoy the coming Civil War

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 05:57 AM

2. i am interested in this coming civil war

how do you think the sides will line up?

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Response to rampartb (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 06:32 AM

3. Well the Military will side with the Constitution

That doesn't bode well for the Democratic Socialists

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 07:14 AM

5. the military?

are you describing a "civil war" or a coup d'état?

let us say, just as a hypothetical, that the president decides it is within his article 2 authority to arrest every "democratic socialist" in the usa and to hold them as terrorists for as long as some state of emergency exists.

1 does the army obey the commander in chief or follow the posse comitatus law?

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Response to rampartb (Reply #5)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 07:29 AM

7. He Obeys the CinC

Posse Comitatus was part of Reconstruction. Obviously the Civil War recommenced

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 08:27 AM

9. obviously not the same civil war

so an order to violate posse comitatus would be an unlawful order.

as an aside : posse comitatus should be repealed. as you imply, reconstruction is over.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 09:06 AM

10. When your Adversaries are Communists is it really CIVIL War?

Its Been America vs Communism my entire Life...is this not just the next Battle?

We can still avert it...but it means stopping Groups like Antifa

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Response to rampartb (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 01:44 AM

11. I am a former Army Infantryman

Each of us swears this oath: "I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according the regulations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

A civil war is a military action, not a law enforcement action... Posse Comitatus is irrelevant. Posse Comitatus is not superior law to the constitution.

If, hypothetically speaking like you said, a civil war broke out and it was a lefty vs conservatives conflict. Here's the deal. It would be a war where one side seeks to undermine the constitution to one degree or another and the other side would be seeking to preserve and defend it. In other words one side would be in insurrection. Quelling an insurrection is indeed a valid use of military action. Again, Posse Comitatus is irrelevant.

If I am not correct here, then, the words "and domestic" would not be in the oath which is sworn by all service members.

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Response to Iron Condor (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 05:21 AM

12. the question is not "constitution or not constitution"

but closer to " which interpretation of the constitution" and, make no mistake, plenty of the "original intent" rhetoric is nonsense. there was not 1 original intent, there were 74 of them.

if the army gets to decide, we are not talking about a civil war, but a coup d'état.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #5)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 01:22 AM

14. Posse Comitatus is invalid if the Insurrection act is invoked

10 U.S. Code CHAPTER 13— INSURRECTION

§ 251. Federal aid for State governments


§ 252. Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority-

Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

§ 253. Interference with State and Federal law-

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—
(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.


§ 254. Proclamation to disperse
§ 255. Guam and Virgin Islands included as “State”






SOURCE-https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/subtitle-A/part-I/chapter-13

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 13, 2019, 03:31 PM

19. Correct. However, if invoked over a constitutional question...

...each service member will have to decide which side is in the right, re: constitutionality. It is absurd to think there would be anywhere near complete consensus. I'd expect the military to fall out more-or-less according to their general political breakdown (that is, more conservative than the general population, but still a rather broad mix). Any legitimate scenario of widespread insurrection would thus see considerable fragmentation of the military.

Perhaps more importantly, I would expect such a situation to provoke regionally-based secession activity. My area, "Cascadia" already sees a fair degree of support for secession. A true contemporary civil war would very probably spell the end of the nation as currently constituted, with multiple regional polities emerging.

Works for me...although like any reasonably sane person, I'd vastly prefer a non-violent dissolution.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #2)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:03 AM

15. I am not seeing one coming,

which is good, as it would be shittastic for all sides.
It would not go down like various partisan folks think it would.

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Response to 762Justice (Reply #15)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:13 AM

16. that is why i asked

not that a cuvil war, or even a revolution, is ever neat, there are far more than 2 factions in the usa. it might be a very good idea if we learn to "agree to disagree."

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 07:08 AM

4. Why do you lie so much when your posted article shows this clown is no such thing???

"responsible gun owner"

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Response to quad489 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 07:23 AM

6. Right...he sounds like a lunatic. 'I'll have my boss load the gun...'

Arrested with ammo but NO mention of guns other than him claiming to carry

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Response to Oldgeezer (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 07:57 AM

8. He's from Toledo, dem controlled for decades...so his low IQ/EQ lunacy is quite understandable.

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Response to rampartb (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 01:17 AM

13. AP and Tracer is not illegal on the federal level, Exploding bullets are, But are very rare items

Mostly Soviet, German and Japanese Issue from 70 years ago so likely not very stable

HollowPoint is 90% of the commercial ammo sold around the planet as its what Hunters use for game

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Response to Banshee 3 Actual (Reply #13)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:22 AM

17. maybe his state has some kind of ammunition restrictions

louisiana restricts "armor piercing" and I really can't think of anything else we can't shoot. maybe lead shot?

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Response to rampartb (Reply #17)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:41 AM

18. Why i said federal level, AP is a misnomer by the way

a 30.06- Soft Point will still penetrate a Level II vest even though it isnt Armor Piercing by definition. a few bills floated (Snicker) by Teddy Kennedy would have banned about 90% of all ammo to such vagueness

https://www.safeguardarmor.com/support/body-armor-protection-levels/

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