Culturefreedomspeechreligion

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:49 AM

Relevant thoughts on Free Speech



Very interesting short video on free speech and religion

&feature=player_embedded

32 replies, 2316 views

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Relevant thoughts on Free Speech (Original post)
Gunslinger201 Dec 2014 OP
rampartb Dec 2014 #1
Gunslinger201 Dec 2014 #2
graham4anything4HC45 Dec 2014 #3
Gunslinger201 Dec 2014 #4
i verglas Dec 2014 #5
Gunslinger201 Dec 2014 #6
His Daughter Dec 2014 #7
Post removed Dec 2014 #9
i verglas Dec 2014 #16
Gunslinger201 Dec 2014 #17
i verglas Dec 2014 #18
His Daughter Dec 2014 #21
i verglas Dec 2014 #22
His Daughter Dec 2014 #23
i verglas Dec 2014 #24
His Daughter Dec 2014 #25
i verglas Dec 2014 #27
His Daughter Dec 2014 #28
i verglas Dec 2014 #29
i verglas Dec 2014 #15
His Daughter Dec 2014 #20
TexMex Dec 2014 #8
Gunslinger201 Dec 2014 #10
TexMex Dec 2014 #12
Gunslinger201 Dec 2014 #13
TexMex Dec 2014 #14
Jack Burton Dec 2014 #11
i verglas Dec 2014 #19
magdrop Dec 2014 #31
His Daughter Dec 2014 #26
i verglas Dec 2014 #32
Arthur Dayne Dec 2014 #30

Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 05:16 AM

1. petition for redress of grievance

islamic groups have the same 1st ammendment right to sue for libel, slander etc as anyone else.

threats and violence are crimes; have any muslims NOT been prosecuted because of their religion?

muslims are victims of many hate crimes; are christians or jews who bomb mosques or terrorize muslims prosecuted?

the more trouble we stir in their countries, the more of them will seek refuge in the west.

i'd recommend the same actions that we would take towards any other groups that seem troublesome. remove the troublemakers for criminal actions while protecting law abiding persons.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:52 AM

2. Good points

I see what you're saying

On the other hand, I am pretty sure the framers did not intend for the Constitution to Protect groups intent on our destruction.

Sort of like the old joke about the son who kills his parents and asks for leniency because he's an Orphan

Good points though. I hope we get more

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:21 AM

3. Then why did the John Birch society exist and the tenet of that group still exist?

Are you saying the JBS mindset and KKK should be banned. Good idea actually

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Response to graham4anything4HC45 (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:51 AM

4. I'm all for Banning The Klan

But the John Birch Society is just
anti-Communist. I'm anti Communist

I have no trouble with the JBS

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 11:03 AM

5. really?

 

On the other hand, I am pretty sure the framers did not intend for the Constitution to Protect groups intent on our destruction.
Huh.

But how about Voltaire? -- even though he didn't actually say it, lots of people think it would have been a good thing to say --

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

You don't think those FFs would have agreed? I mean, they were all about the Enlightenment, and Voltaire was pretty much it.

I'm not a free-speech absolutist myself, but I do find some of the quirks of those who are interesting.

On the video: Those who hide behind the cloak of free speech and open debate and yada yada yada in order to vilify people and incite hatred and the consequences that flow from hatred against 100% innocent people, that being their real goal, are just cowards. Well, not just cowards. But cowards all the same.

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Response to i verglas (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 11:22 AM

6. How did we slip as a society from

I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it,

To

I disapprove of what you say and will alert on this and petition your boss to fire you if you don't STFU, you sir are worse than Hitler!

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:39 PM

7. Blame Canada

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #7)


Response to Post removed (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:08 PM

16. I've never been to Stanley Park

 

But I hear it's a lovely place. Does the presence of Chinese alter its beauty significantly?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:11 PM

17. No (I've been to Taiwan)

And there were a lot of Chinese there too.

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:14 PM

18. I'm wondering what your point is

 

Your interlocutor interjects the hilarious "Blame Canada", and you respond with a comment about Stanley Park in Vancouver and all the Chinese there. ?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:42 PM

21. I am no ones interlocutor

Do they still do minstrel shows in Canada?



In case anyone wonders where that came from: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/interlocutor #2, since #1 is clearly not applicable.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:57 PM

22. wowsers

 

"a person who is having a conversation with you"

Do you seriously not speak moderately elevated modern English? Even after all that time in the diplomatic corps? There's absolutely nothing a diplomat loves more than a good interlocutor. They would be lost without them.




This link seems to have been changed from when I posted this elsewhere a few years ago, but you can have the transcription:

http://www.toronto.ca/archives/petitiontranscription.htm

To
His Worship the Mayor of Toronto

The petition of the undersigned, People of Colour; residing in the City of Toronto: Humbly Sheweth;

That your Petitioners are informed that a Company of "Circus Actors" from the United States (now travelling in this Province) are shortly to visit this City for the purpose of performing &c.

That Your Petitioners from the general and almost invariable practice of such Actors in their performances, have good reason to apprehend annoyances and insults, in the manner they endeavour to make the Coloured man appear ridiculous and contemptible in the eyes of their audience. Your Petitioners would humbly pray that Your Worship would be pleased to prevent the occurrence of such annoyances and insults, as Your Petitioners believe that such attempted Exhibitions of the African Character are not at all relished or approved of by the sensible and well thinking Inhabitants of this Community.

And Your Petitioners as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Toronto, 14th October 1841.

(James Johnson and 28 additional signatures attached)

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Response to i verglas (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 03:07 PM

23. You clearly have me confused with someone else

I was never a diplomat, and what diplomacy I have done has come at the point of an M-4 or a scalpel, depending when it was in my life.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 03:28 PM

24. I didn't say you were a diplomat

 

Daddy was a big wheel though, no?

Lordy ...

http://www.discussionist.com/10167656#post8

We were dip kids(children of diplomats). We had lived in the middle east and Japan, before we came back to the US.

You go on and on and on about it enough, are we not supposed to remember?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:07 PM

25. That is not the same as "Even after all that time in the diplomatic corps?"

We were not, Mom was. Being a dip kid is quite a bit different, though we had diplomatic passports.

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:12 PM

27. oh, allll right

 

"Hanging out with the diplomatic corps", if you think it makes some big honking difference to what was being discussed and what I said about it, about which you have studiously said nothing. 'K?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:15 PM

28. You often studiously say nothing

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:15 PM

29. oh look

 

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:07 PM

15. non-responsive non sequitur

 

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Response to i verglas (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:39 PM

20. Asked and answered actually

about as well as could be done under the circumstances

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:47 PM

8. Like Timmy McVeigh's militia group

 

... or the Posse Comitatus, Branch Davidians, Bundyans and any number of other anti-government nut jobs the RW spawns to attack this great nation.

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Response to TexMex (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:04 PM

10. You know

Almost all of the Tex Mex people I've ever known were pretty "right of center"

What happened to you?

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:53 PM

12. I follow the lead of many great Texans who came before me:

 

Sam Houston, Jesse Jones, Lyndon B. Johnson, Lloyd Bentsen, Barbara Jordan, Charlie Wilson, Ann Richards and many others.

Those carpet bagger Republicans that moved here in the 70's aren't real Texans...

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Response to TexMex (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:55 PM

13. When I lived there

I remember bumper stickers that said


"Beautify Texas, put a Yankee on a Bus"

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:57 PM

14. Well played :)

 

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 01:50 PM

11. Unfortunately I think we are headed the way of 'free speech' in the UK.

The politically correct progressives are trying to stifle free speech and thought at every turn.

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Response to Jack Burton (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:36 PM

19. these gems of wisdom about the folly of foreigners' ways are always fascinating

 

(well, that may be putting too fine a point on it, given that even the brightest shinest thing gets dull after 1000 viewings, so imagine what happens to inane generalizations)

but this thread is about a particular subject: the video posted in the OP.

Can you think of nothing to say about the content of that video?

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Response to i verglas (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 11, 2014, 04:30 AM

31. The video isn't completely wrong it its main thesis, we are on a slippery slope here.

They just get most of the salient points twisted around. According to the Roberts court, bribery is merely an expression of free speech. So what the video talks about, where speech is being made into a crime, isn't really what's happening at all. Our plight is the polar opposite, where actual crimes and corruption are being protected as a first amendment right. It's as if the founding fathers never mentioned bribery at all in the Constitution.

Another point where the message is a bit off in the video is the emphasis on criminal speech when most of what they gripe about is civil law, not criminal law. I know that most of their audience doesn't comprehend that there is a difference, but still.

Also, there doesn't seem to be anything claimed in the video about Muslim activists that couldn't also be claimed about Jewish activists. The ADL has been around doing pretty much the exact same thing for a century now.

And lastly, there have been actual laws on the books in Europe for over half a century that outlaw and criminalize certain speech regarding Nazis and the Holocaust. Real speech crimes already exist and are not new.

Other than that, the video is something to be concerned about, mainly the idea that the masses can be so easily manipulated and so completely fooled about what our reality is. It's fairly easy to create a whole make-believe world where certain facts don't apply while other fabrications are accepted. It's pretty frightening to consider how easy it is to trick the sheeple. And it's sort of fascinating to watch how they clutch onto anything that will allow their make-believe world to remain intact.

There is one thing that I can think of which would make the whole video a lot more effective. If they used the words terrorism and terrorist plots a lot more, especially in the same sentence as the word Muslim or Islam or Allah.

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Response to Jack Burton (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 04:09 PM

26. Canada is about as bad

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Response to His Daughter (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 11, 2014, 10:15 AM

32. bibbity bobbity boo

 

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Response to Gunslinger201 (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:46 PM

30. I agree with the video.

I don't advocate disrespecting anyone's religious beliefs. That said, it is well established in the US that we can criticize or even mock religion. The sudden rush to protect Islam seems like a double standard. The same people screaming Islamaphobia have no problem with insulting Baptists or Mormons.

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