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Tue May 13, 2014, 07:11 PM

Shedding weight of DU identity and all its misperceptions

I am sure I'm not the only one here who was tired of being tied down to a cartoon characterization of themselves on DU. The poisonous and politically correct environment created there was toxic to people on all sides and I doubt I will be going back.

In particular, the madness of that place was driven home to me by the burgeoning and blossoming proliferation of "white privilege" threads. While this White Privilege IS a thing to be sure, the use of it as a bludgeon to bully, berate and poke sticks in people's eyes from behind a politically safe and correct castle wall was rather sickening.

And so, I am happy to be here, in a new place, and free to say what I want without the army of flaming-haired stalkers pointing fingers and saying "Aha!".

So let's have at it. Discuss whatever there is to discuss and not assume we know "WHO" the other person on the end of the ethernet really IS. Because...we don't. Or maybe we do... they are us.

178 replies, 38653 views

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Arrow 178 replies Author Time Post
Reply Shedding weight of DU identity and all its misperceptions (Original post)
Greggery Peccary May 2014 OP
iffley May 2014 #1
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #3
BlackSabbath May 2014 #2
Paul E. Ester May 2014 #35
longj May 2014 #45
Twilight Sporkle May 2014 #88
Mr Happy May 2014 #96
Name removed May 2014 #129
Cid__B May 2014 #154
The Doctor May 2014 #164
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #168
Cid__B May 2014 #169
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #170
Cid__B May 2014 #171
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #172
Cid__B May 2014 #174
sabrina May 2014 #156
uncledad May 2014 #4
The Doctor May 2014 #5
JTFrog May 2014 #19
The Doctor May 2014 #22
JTFrog May 2014 #25
Post removed May 2014 #31
The Doctor May 2014 #33
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #50
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #56
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #59
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #62
longj May 2014 #53
The Doctor May 2014 #81
longj May 2014 #101
The Doctor May 2014 #103
longj May 2014 #107
Grinchy May 2014 #110
longj May 2014 #116
Grinchy May 2014 #118
longj May 2014 #122
Grinchy May 2014 #123
liberalguy May 2014 #126
Name removed May 2014 #130
Grinchy May 2014 #104
longj May 2014 #108
Grinchy May 2014 #109
longj May 2014 #115
Grinchy May 2014 #120
Chula May 2014 #117
Grinchy May 2014 #121
Sibelian the White May 2014 #119
Grinchy May 2014 #111
Listener May 2014 #125
Banned Atheist May 2014 #166
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #47
The Doctor May 2014 #71
longj May 2014 #75
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #78
Name removed May 2014 #131
liberalguy May 2014 #57
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #24
Barefoot Dancer May 2014 #84
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #90
mindwalker_2pi May 2014 #146
galileosghost May 2014 #97
Daves Not Here Man May 2014 #98
JTFrog May 2014 #112
galileosghost May 2014 #124
Sibelian the White May 2014 #128
OfficeSpace May 2014 #140
Chula May 2014 #114
Ms.Eloriel May 2014 #178
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #41
longj May 2014 #46
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #49
Silent But Deadly May 2014 #150
NewDay May 2014 #158
The Doctor May 2014 #161
NewDay May 2014 #162
The Doctor May 2014 #163
Baron Funchausen May 2014 #6
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #8
orson May 2014 #10
Baron Funchausen May 2014 #11
Brawndo May 2014 #28
sadie May 2014 #7
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #9
Baron Funchausen May 2014 #12
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #13
Burrowing Owl May 2014 #32
Abelard May 2014 #36
longj May 2014 #48
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #61
longj May 2014 #65
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #70
longj May 2014 #74
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #79
longj May 2014 #100
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #52
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #58
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #64
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #68
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #91
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #92
Post removed May 2014 #133
Name removed May 2014 #132
Grinchy May 2014 #135
Wheninrome May 2014 #137
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #17
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #23
Baron Funchausen May 2014 #30
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #141
Baron Funchausen May 2014 #143
sadie May 2014 #86
cold soil solian May 2014 #14
OfficeSpace May 2014 #18
Selahedin May 2014 #20
Brawndo May 2014 #29
liberalguy May 2014 #60
hunter May 2014 #15
Daniel Simpson Day May 2014 #16
Selahedin May 2014 #21
Smoke and Mirrors May 2014 #106
Blurt May 2014 #26
Brawndo May 2014 #27
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #34
Paul E. Ester May 2014 #37
longj May 2014 #42
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #44
longj May 2014 #51
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #67
liberalguy May 2014 #69
longj May 2014 #72
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #77
Name removed May 2014 #134
uncledad May 2014 #149
The Doctor May 2014 #73
longj May 2014 #82
The Doctor May 2014 #83
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #139
galileosghost May 2014 #99
Name removed May 2014 #136
paisan May 2014 #87
Twilight Sporkle May 2014 #89
galileosghost May 2014 #102
Silent But Deadly May 2014 #151
Blue Links May 2014 #152
Badlander May 2014 #155
Stars May 2014 #160
Badlander May 2014 #167
tanklvhi May 2014 #177
tireman2.0 May 2014 #173
msv May 2014 #38
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #39
longj May 2014 #40
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #43
longj May 2014 #55
Greggery Peccary May 2014 #63
longj May 2014 #66
Listener May 2014 #127
liberalguy May 2014 #54
The Doctor May 2014 #76
Barefoot Dancer May 2014 #80
Pickle May 2014 #85
Strange Luck May 2014 #93
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #138
defictus May 2014 #94
Sigurd May 2014 #95
Mdbl2 May 2014 #113
froyo May 2014 #105
NSFW May 2014 #148
Maturin May 2014 #175
mdmc1 May 2014 #142
Lorena Baguette May 2014 #144
Heyu May 2014 #145
Liberal seminarian May 2014 #147
Squeek May 2014 #153
NewDay May 2014 #157
backwoodsbob May 2014 #159
Miz thang.... May 2014 #165
mrwordsworth May 2014 #176

Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:23 PM

1. Stating your position in a current and sometimes contentious GD swarm topic isn't shedding

your DU identity. If you truly want to leave DU behind, then don't mention it.

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Response to iffley (Reply #1)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:36 PM

3. Actually I do want to leave DU behind and I WILL mention it.

Wanting to leave an environment that has become stifling, sickening or oppressive does not in any way mean that one should not discuss it.

In fact, quite the opposite, discussion is a necessary step in getting over something for some people.

That's what I will do as long as I feel it is therapeutic for myself and others.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:27 PM

2. GD has become a sewer of identity politics and cause trolling,

 

more or less.

There are some devoted people there who place rank ideology over thought and it is quite a turn off.

Yeah, I think I'll probably stop even lurking there.

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Response to BlackSabbath (Reply #2)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:34 PM

35. Affinity trolling is easy when you're in that environment.

Political Correctness is a poison.

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Response to Paul E. Ester (Reply #35)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:04 AM

45. Ah, and inevitably it is the white male that has issue with Political Correctness.

Go figure. Do you ever wonder why, it is white men that harp on Political Correctness?

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Response to longj (Reply #45)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:49 AM

88. Becuase they invented it and without them tending it, the idea would wither?

Sort of like the notion that Rachel from "Friends" is attractive.

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Response to longj (Reply #45)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:30 AM

96. el oh el

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Response to longj (Reply #45)


Response to longj (Reply #45)

Thu May 15, 2014, 12:44 PM

154. It wasn't the white men that kept those 84 threads going day after day...

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Response to Cid__B (Reply #154)

Thu May 15, 2014, 03:46 PM

164. You're exactly right.

 

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Response to Cid__B (Reply #154)

Fri May 16, 2014, 02:21 AM

168. Really? Cause a lot of them are complaining about how oppressed

they feel as white men, or how people shouldn't be posting about privilege. How many non-white men you think are posting that?

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #168)

Fri May 16, 2014, 07:32 AM

169. Mostly they were just pushing back....

.. After you turned DU into the most tedious place on the Internet for 96 hours.

Especially after your point, whatever it may have been, was made around hour two.

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Response to Cid__B (Reply #169)

Fri May 16, 2014, 09:46 AM

170. Me personally? What superpowers are those

That enable such a thing?

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #170)

Fri May 16, 2014, 04:24 PM

171. I have no idea what you are trying to say..

Literally zero...

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Response to Cid__B (Reply #171)

Fri May 16, 2014, 04:51 PM

172. Read your own post

169. Mostly they were just pushing back....

After you turned DU into the most tedious place on the Internet for 96 hours.

Especially after your point, whatever it may have been, was made around hour two.

Who is you? Me personally? People of color? People who care about racism?

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #172)

Fri May 16, 2014, 06:27 PM

174. Dead horse beaters...

The folks who had a point 156 threads ago, possibly legitimate, and drove it so far into the ground that it popped out in China well beyond the point where any reasonable person could continue to give a crap and/or not be resentful.

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Response to longj (Reply #45)

Thu May 15, 2014, 02:05 PM

156. Extremism of any kind is poison. I agree with the OP, glad people have this place

to go to to get away from all the flame baiting there. Otherwise they were leaving DU to go elsewhere because of the boredom of the same old bait from most of the same people.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:42 PM

4. I'll bounce between the two and see what happens.

I agree with you. It looked more like organized disruption.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:45 PM

5. The HOF Brigade and BOGers have infested the site.

 

It has become a cesspool of annoyance.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #5)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:37 PM

19. Nothing made DU stink worse than the influx of MRA's and the admins

giving them their own forum. Propping them up and giving those assholes a voice was stupid.


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Response to JTFrog (Reply #19)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:32 PM

22. Nothing made DU stink worse

 

than a rogue group of Dworkinites running amok at the site. They scream MRA supporter if you dare talk about anything other than women's issues, especially if one brings up legitimate concerns like boys failing more than girls at school.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #22)


Response to JTFrog (Reply #25)


Response to JTFrog (Reply #25)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:11 PM

33. Yeah, I'm not wrong.

 

The DUer lumberjack_jeff always brought up legitimate concerns and the Dworkinites always shot him down as some sort of MRA.

Bullshit indeed.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #33)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:15 AM

50. Yeah, it's just a total coincidence

That if you look at the MRA Reddit the topics are pretty much the same.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #50)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:29 AM

56. Is it possible that you noticed the commonalities but ignored the differences?

That happens easily. It's how our brains were designed.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #56)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:33 AM

59. Yes, that certainly is possible

and in fact likely. However some of the arguments are identical. Still, I have to hand it to that poster, at least he makes an effort to provide information to back up his arguments rather than simply whining.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #59)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:38 AM

62. That IS commendable.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #33)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:19 AM

53. They shot him down, continually, cause it was stupid ass MRA garbage. Stupid

is incredibly easy to shoot down. Maybe that man should get new material.

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Response to longj (Reply #53)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:19 AM

81. So discussing boys failing at school more than girls is MRA?

 

Um, okay.



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Response to The Doctor (Reply #81)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:01 AM

101. Actually, yes it is.

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Response to longj (Reply #101)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:24 AM

103. Opinions like that is why DU now sucks.

 

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #103)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:34 AM

107. Take note. One poster asks why. You?

Without any information throw out an insult as if you know what you are talking about and the why's of it. I would suggest that is what makes du suck.

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Response to longj (Reply #107)

Wed May 14, 2014, 11:16 AM

110. What's making DU suck is intolerance for the views of others, and the ease in applying

labels that are meant to shut down conversation and discussion.

I'm the poster that asked why.

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Response to Grinchy (Reply #110)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:13 PM

116. Yes, you are the poster that asked why, as i answered your reply just now. Fact is fact.

To point out the MRA is factually incorrect in their argument is not intolerant. You seem to feel that non truths must be allowed to flourish in the name of conversation. Proving the talking points as incorrect cannot make du suck, surely.

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Response to longj (Reply #116)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:25 PM

118. I 'believe' that every concern should be discussed and argued on it's merits

and that those concerned shouldn't be given lazy labels meant to inflame and create hostility in an effort to shut it down.

Intolerance to the concerns of others - makes DU or anywhere else suck.

I don't agree that any conversation regarding a child is a 'talking point'.





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Response to Grinchy (Reply #118)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:47 PM

122. There is an on going conversation about shooting lumberjack down for MRA talking points.

That is where this conversation originated. That is what is being discussed. The conversation that I am addressing is the information Lumberjack provides for DU, which is straight MRA talking points. I am addressing what is being spoken of in this subthread.

You seem to be trying to create a parallel conversation.

Lumberjack quotes MRA talking points.


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Response to longj (Reply #122)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:52 PM

123. I've seen plenty of his posts.

Not once have I seen one that hasn't made me stop and think, or believe that he has any other interest than truly discussing things that concern him. That you don't agree means absolutely nothing but - you don't agree.

I'm not trying to create anything. You??

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Response to longj (Reply #116)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:00 PM

126. Yet you made no attempt, not even a cursory one, to establish factual inaccuracy.

 

It's pretty typical.

Boys are failing in school in far greater numbers than girls.

Women in the United States now earn 62 percent of associate’s degrees, 57 percent of bachelor’s degrees, 60 percent of master’s degrees, and 52 percent of doctorates. College admissions officers were at first baffled, then concerned, and finally panicked over the dearth of male applicants. If male enrollment falls to 40 percent or below, female students begin to flee. Officials at schools at or near the tipping point (American University, Boston University, Brandeis University, New York University, the University of Georgia, and the University of North Carolina, to name only a few) are helplessly watching as their campuses become like retirement villages, with a surfeit of women competing for a handful of surviving men. Henry Broaddus, dean of admissions at William and Mary, explains the new anxiety: “omen who enroll … expect to see men on campus. It’s not the College of Mary and Mary; it’s the College of William and Mary.”

Boys in all ethnic groups and social classes are far less likely than their sisters to feel connected to school, to earn good grades, or to have high academic aspirations. A recent working paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research documents a remarkable trend among high-achieving students: In the 1980s, nearly the same number of top male and female high school students said they planned to pursue a postgraduate degree (13 percent of boys and 15 percent of girls). By the 2000s, 27 percent of girls expressed that ambition, compared with 16 percent of boys. During the same period, the gap between girls and boys earning mostly A’s nearly doubled—from three to five percentage points.

This gap in education engagement has dire economic consequences for boys. A 2011 Brookings Institution report quantifies the economic decline of the median male: For men ages 25 to 64 with no high school diploma, median annual earnings have declined 66 percent since 1969; for men with only a high school diploma, wages declined by 47 percent. Millions of male workers, say the Brookings authors, have been “unhitched from the engine of growth.” The College Board delivered this disturbing message in a 2011 report about Hispanic and African-American boys and young adults: “Nearly half of young men of color age 15 to 24 who graduate from high school will end up unemployed, incarcerated or dead.” Working-class white boys are faring only slightly better. When economist Andrew Sum and his colleagues at the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University examined gender disparities in the Boston Public Schools, they found that for the class of 2007, among blacks and Hispanics, there were 186 females for every 100 males attending a four-year college or university. For white students: 153 females to every 100 males.

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Response to longj (Reply #116)


Response to longj (Reply #101)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:54 AM

104. Why? nt.

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Response to Grinchy (Reply #104)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:38 AM

108. Why is it a MRA argument? It works for them. Boys are not failing more in school

than the past. As a matter of fact, boys are doing better today than they did yesterday. Comparing it to girls is not an accurate measurement on boys success and failure. I am all for addressing any need for our children. The argument MRA presents is false, though. A lie. That is a problem.

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Response to longj (Reply #108)

Wed May 14, 2014, 11:13 AM

109. Any concern for children should be discussed freely.

I don't believe there's any indicator saying boys are doing better today, but even if so ... if someone is concerned about it, they have the full right to discuss it without being applied an ugly label. You're all for addressing childrens' needs, that's great. Stating someone else's concern is a lie, is unfair and intolerant.

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Response to Grinchy (Reply #109)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:10 PM

115. Yes. There is facts that show boys are doing better today than the past.

The argument is straight from MRA. That is a reality. But, it is good to hear that you find the MRA an "ugly" group.

Stating someone else's concern is incorrect is neither unfair or intolerant but educational.

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Response to longj (Reply #115)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:30 PM

120. Reality - all you own are your own conclusions, beliefs and experience ...

you can't decide it for anyone but yourself.

There are many sides to every concern and debate.

I don't think the men's group on DU is MRA any more than they are Prohibitionists, Satan Worshippers or the Organization Of Commie Tooth Fairies.

A 'concern' can't be correct or incorrect.

con·cern

1.
relate to; be about.
"
2.
worry (someone); make anxious.

1.
anxiety; worry.

2.
a matter of interest or importance to someone.

Re 'education' - I find I've gotten my best 'education' by listening to all voices and deciding what makes sense on my own. I don't need someone who believes in shutting down the concerns and experiences of any other to tell me what to 'know'. I think most grown-ups would agree.

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Response to Grinchy (Reply #109)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:24 PM

117. Absolutely, but...........

..........when it is introduced into a discussion of educational issues specifically affecting girls, then it is a derailment and not an authentic discussion.

Want to discuss issues specifically being faced by boys? Awesome -- let's discuss these issues -- IN THEIR OWN THREAD.

Women and minorities have had to put up with being told for far too long that our issues aren't important enough to be discussed. Interrupting a discussion of Issue A and how it affects the group at hand with a "yeah, but we have to put up Issue B" is disrespectful and manipulative. It is meant to derail the conversation as well as a not-so-subtle STFU.

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Response to Chula (Reply #117)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:37 PM

121. Yes, I know exactly what women and minorities have had to put up with, and still do.

I agree that any conversation can be derailed in a disrespectful and manipulative manner. It's an equal opportunity thing.

Deciding who's allowed to even have a conversation though is intolerant and lazy.

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Response to longj (Reply #101)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:28 PM

119. Case.


Make it.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #81)

Wed May 14, 2014, 11:17 AM

111. No, it's not. nt.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #81)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:00 PM

125. I don't think so, if that were really happening

but then why worry about what gender is of the children failing in school? Why even bother to look at it unless looking for some correlation? Poor children may statistically have the hardest time.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #81)

Thu May 15, 2014, 07:51 PM

166. It's not a zero-sum game...

Why not ask why girls are *succeeding* in school more than in the past?

Sometimes it helps to think about the problem before framing a question. Makes it less likely that one will formulate a 'gotcha' question.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #22)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:08 AM

47. Oh, no



Why would anyone think you were MRA? It's not like you have a bolder-size chip on your shoulder or anything.


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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #47)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:06 AM

71. And it begins.

 

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #71)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:11 AM

75. Doctor, it started or BEGAN, with the OP. lmao.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #71)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:18 AM

78. Dude, you started it

The question is why? You must like those fights.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #47)


Response to The Doctor (Reply #22)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:31 AM

57. Exactly right. n/t

 

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #19)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:36 PM

24. Men do NOT need a "movement" and so MRA is a stupid thing to be sure.

However, men, on an individual and smaller scale have issues within society that need to be addressed.

Anyone that denies it is so is, in fact, a hater with a hating streak likely resulting from some personal pain or drama.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #24)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:23 AM

84. They have issues

but blaming women isn't going to get them far.

There's nothing to stop them from forming a sub group here, you know.

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Response to Barefoot Dancer (Reply #84)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:25 AM

90. Blaming women collectively is also idiotic.

Which does not absolve individual women from the responsibility of not being assholes.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #24)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:45 PM

146. To be fair, some men do need a movement


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Response to JTFrog (Reply #19)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:25 AM

97. this is an interesting post

 

i'm curious how you are defining "MRA" in this context.

not a monolithic label really. in fact, it's pretty simple to argue the yin/yang properties of say, A Voice for Men and DU's HoF. Different sides of the same coin and really need each other.

how is giving anyone a "voice" stupid in any context? do you equate an opinion with the ultimate power to act on it somehow? on the internet no less? I am very curious.

I'd ask AVfM's Paul Elam the exact same question, but I'd never get a cogent answer through all the histrionics and insecurity bubbling through.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #19)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:36 AM

98. Complete bullshit.

MRA! MRA! MRA!

Try to come up with an actual response instead of saying MRA. The Men's Forum has had several topics approaching what it's like to grow up as a male in society. You'd like to discount all because of a few banned posters. Or an OP or two you didn't like. To fucking bad.

One could say the same of HOF, too. Lots of bickering about forums. Just more shit to divide people. Funny thing is, we're all voting blue come Election Day. And if you think some of DU's Men's Forum more prolific posters don't vote blue. Then you haven't been paying attention.

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Response to Daves Not Here Man (Reply #98)


Response to JTFrog (Reply #112)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:54 PM

124. I see HoF mirroring many comments like at AVfM but not the Mens Group.

 

Can you clarify?

Replace the gender descriptor in an average HoF post and it's identical.

Its like ideological matter/anti-matter. Either set of opinions are extremist, shrilly and hysterically debated, and devoid of cogent nor experiential logic.

You can't see that?

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #112)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:16 PM

128. Well, I think what you've got there


Is a category. But you don't seem to be able to say why there's actually anything wrong with anyone in it or why what they're doing is bad. It's just, you know, that they're in it. And that's it.

the positions appear to be:

Men don't need a movement and men talking about systems that oppress men don't need to exist because men aren't oppressed
Any men's movement is a Men's Right's Activists Group (how? makes no sense.... It's like saying all sport is football)
Any man talking about damaging societal trends that disadvantage men is a men;s right's activist
MRA - FAH. BADNESS.

This is from the advocates of a movement that openly espouse the existence of a system that oppresses both men and women, namely patriarchy. So men are oppressed, apparently, when feminsts say so, but not when men say so.

Odd.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #112)

Wed May 14, 2014, 05:23 PM

140. The people in the Mens group at DU aren't in the same universe as MRAs.

That's like saying people in GD who dispute white privilege are in the KKK or stormfront members.

All one needs to do is use the proof you yourself offered. Compare average posts at AVfM to average posts at the Mens Group in DU.

AVfM is virulently misogynist. Every event is spun as women are bad. The Jay-Z Solange tiff is described right on their front page as bad women who don't respect the entertainment royalty status of Jay-Z. No one in the mens group on DU would come close to making an argument like that.

There is no terminology in use in the mens group on DU that resembles MRA terminology.

Comparing the mens group to MRAs is a bogeyman to which people really need to give a rest.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #19)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:10 PM

114. Wish I could recommend this post!! (n/t)

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #19)

Sun May 18, 2014, 05:57 PM

178. Absolutely

As I said in another thread, I doubt seriously that Admin, for all their many faults, would've given a Group to anti-LGBT, or pro-White Identify, but they had no problem giving a Group status to a group of people whose primary purpose, based on ALL the threads you'll find in that forum, is anti-woman and anti-women's rights.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #5)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:00 AM

41. I know

All those Democrats are so annoying. Skinner needs to make clear that only old white hippies are allowed. kick out all the feminists, anyone who supports Obama, and make sure the only people allowed are those who really, really hate Democrats and all those nasty women and people of color they represent. Of course, you could always just go to Free Republic instead.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #5)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:05 AM

46. The Doctor that got kicked off because of an obsession with HOF and some players.

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Response to longj (Reply #46)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:14 AM

49. Oh, suddently I'm thirsty

Do you like cola?



No one seems to drink that brand anymore. It's either Coke or Pepsi. Can't think why.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #5)

Thu May 15, 2014, 12:39 AM

150. There is this thing called IGNORE and another thing called TRASH THREAD

and you can also "auto trash by keyword" to optimize your DU experience.

You don't have to even see those people.

What will you do when this place starts filling up with views you don't like? Where will you go? What will you dooooooooo?

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #5)

Thu May 15, 2014, 02:14 PM

158. Anyone wonder why this poster was blocked from those groups (and DU in totale)?

Last edited Thu May 15, 2014, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Keep licking those grievances and you'll be sure to get a Staph infection...

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Response to NewDay (Reply #158)

Thu May 15, 2014, 03:39 PM

161. I was never blocked.

 

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #161)

Thu May 15, 2014, 03:42 PM

162. um hmmm..

sure

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Response to NewDay (Reply #162)

Thu May 15, 2014, 03:45 PM

163. Think what you want.

 

I play a different character over there.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:52 PM

6. To quote Hunter S. Thompson- "the fun had drained out of it"

That is my state of the DUnion appraisal at this juncture.

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Response to Baron Funchausen (Reply #6)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:05 PM

8. Baron, you fucking nailed it with that one.

And now, I will remember you as the person with the best use of quotes thus far on "Discussionist".

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Response to Baron Funchausen (Reply #6)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:22 PM

10. Are we comparing DU

to riding with the Hells Angels? That seems a little strong.

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Response to orson (Reply #10)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:24 PM

11. I think he was talking about eating acid during the Nixon era

But i could be wrong.

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Response to Baron Funchausen (Reply #6)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:55 PM

28. The juries and 5 post bans did that

The admins don't understand that "Deleted message - Name Removed" was part of the fun of the place. Yes, the post was hidden by the mods, but people were enjoying themselves. DU is not some intellectual policy institute. It's an internet message board used to kick around ideas and have "fun"

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 07:58 PM

7. I'm looking forward to it.

I don't expect many of the radfems and Obama Worshippers will enjoy it to much though.

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Response to sadie (Reply #7)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:06 PM

9. They won't enjoy a place where they can't ban anyone who says something they don't like?

Wow, go figure!

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #9)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:25 PM

12. Some folks are already complaining about it.

Like anyone is forced to be here.

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Response to Baron Funchausen (Reply #12)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:29 PM

13. They turned DU into an embarrassing cartoon of itself.

Half of GD is about "white privilege" and when that is done, it will be back to the "rape culture" brought up every time there is a rape somewhere.

Yes, those are issues, but without a sense of proportion to them, it is all fucked up.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #13)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:06 PM

32. Bingo

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #13)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:38 PM

36. You got THAT right!!!

But, you left out the times that BOTH of those get thrown together.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #13)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:09 AM

48. I think if you were to acutally look at the number of threads you refer to, you would find

that your exaggeration is way out there. A thread or two or three every two or three or more days about rape culture, with all the various Ops is taking over the board? What a whine.

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Response to longj (Reply #48)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:36 AM

61. No, it is out of proportion.

And for all the claims of being sensitive over race issues, I see much more about feminists acting whiny over 1st world problems than I see attempts to discuss the "war on men" that is most obvious when the incarceration stats are looked at. Black men, Hispanic men... Men.

Rapes in Nigeria, for example, as horrible as they are are NOT worse than the murders that happen there. If a man gets killed when a woman gets raped, which is worse? Although horrible to even pose the question, it seems that some act as if men dying in war is "expected" and women being raped is the one thing that is unacceptable.

Kinda makes you think about how men are viewed as disposable, doesn't it?

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #61)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:45 AM

65. Yes. Lets discuss those horrible men, committing war on men. I am right there with you brother.

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Response to longj (Reply #65)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:06 AM

70. Doesn't make it any easier for the men that are victims.

It is callous to say that humans with penises shouldn't be viewed with sympathy because they have the same types of genitals as the people doing the killing.

I just have to scratch my head at that thinking.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #70)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:10 AM

74. Yes. Show me where anyone said that men that are victims of crime should not receive

"sympathy"/consideration.

Because really, I have to scratch my head with made up arguments.

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Response to longj (Reply #74)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:18 AM

79. "Yes. Lets discuss those horrible men, committing war on men"

THAT is what you offered when I dared to suggest that the issue of millions of men and boys dying in wars may be worthy of the same focus given to women and girls being raped.

Now tell me. does 'Yes. Lets discuss those horrible men, committing war on men" really sound like a sympathetic tone?

Please be honest for a moment.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #79)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:59 AM

100. one has nothing to do with another.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #13)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:18 AM

52. It's not lke racism or rape are common

or anything.

It is so annoying when they let feminists and people of color talk to their betters that way, isn't it? In your day, they were taught to be stay in their place.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #52)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:32 AM

58. No, in my day, people were taught to have manners and to not be bullies.

No matter who they are.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #58)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:42 AM

64. You haven't been complaining about civility

You are complaining about ideas. You don't like discussions about rape, or racism from the perspective of the handful of African American posters on the board. Fine. Use keyword trash. Use ignore. You don't need to insult everyone who cares about issues you don't. That's not civil. Calling them trolls and accusing them of making DU suck is very far from civil. Assuming you should determine what is and isn't acceptable speech is pretty rude, IMO. Let people go about their business as you do yours.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #64)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:57 AM

68. No, you are selectively seeing what you want.

I am not complaining about ideas.

The Medium is the Message.

When you understand what that means, get back to me.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #68)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:34 AM

91. How about we examine the post I responded to?

Last edited Thu May 15, 2014, 03:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Greggery Peccary (61 posts)

13. They turned DU into an embarrassing cartoon of itself.
Half of GD is about "white privilege" and when that is done, it will be back to the "rape culture" brought up every time there is a rape somewhere.

Yes, those are issues, but without a sense of proportion to them, it is all fucked up.

Nothing about civility. Everything about rape culture and white privilege. Those are subjects, ideas.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #91)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:42 AM

92. What you missed is right here: "Yes, those are issues, but without a sense of proportion to them,"

Amazing how you seem to be able to unsee what is right in front of you.

YES, THOSE ARE ISSUES = an admission that the ideas are real and valid.

WITHOUT A SENSE OF PROPORTION = civility, balance.

Perhaps if I said quantity vs. quality you might understand? No where did I say your issues do not matter. In fact I said the opposite.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #91)


Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #52)


Response to Name removed (Reply #132)


Response to Baron Funchausen (Reply #12)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:46 PM

137. My guess is that the same people will descend on this place

And try to control what is said here too.
I already see calls for banning topics...and I expect jury stacking if it is possible.

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Response to sadie (Reply #7)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:30 PM

17. Actually I was thinking it could be good

In that people could be honest about their views. They don't have to pretend to be something they aren't.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #17)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:33 PM

23. I agree. Neither can people pick up convenient social flails and wield them sanctimoniously

but duplicitously in service of their personal agenda.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #17)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:04 PM

30. that only works if it's not glaringly obvious who one is, over on DU.

not that I'm speaking of anyone loafing around in this thread, of course.

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Response to Baron Funchausen (Reply #30)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:34 PM

141. I spotted you too

Always the aristocrat.

I figure why hide. I am who I am, warts and all.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #141)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:14 PM

143. No shit.

I mean, it's not like either of us is really trying, though.

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Response to Lorena Baguette (Reply #17)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:31 AM

86. That's true, too.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 08:57 PM

14. I can understand where you're coming from, though I disagree with some of your characterization

(or, perhaps more precisely, see it as incomplete because it's one-sided) ... but my question is, what do you expect will be different here? Is there something about this place that will prevent the "flaming-haired stalkers" from "pointing fingers and saying 'Aha!'"?

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Response to cold soil solian (Reply #14)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:30 PM

18. I agree. Cliques and coalitions will form here too.

There might be a few more of them, but that's not much of a difference.

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Response to OfficeSpace (Reply #18)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:22 PM

20. It won't take long for that to happen, really.


The alliances there will form here. Bank on that.

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Response to OfficeSpace (Reply #18)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:55 PM

29. I agree

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Response to OfficeSpace (Reply #18)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:36 AM

60. On a site in which the sideboards to conversation are so far apart

 

The factions will, of necessity, be less doctrinaire. It's not going to be the funfems vs the radfems, or the civil liberties types vs the BOG group.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:07 PM

15. I'm the same here as there, and most everywhere else I post.

GOP and Libertarian are so twentieth century moribund.

Can you make something new and better?

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 09:24 PM

16. There's been a lot of good Du'ers

ridden out of town on a rail over the past few years.
If this site is going to succeed, then its gonna' have to earn its credibility like a scrappy upstart.

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Response to Daniel Simpson Day (Reply #16)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:25 PM

21. Ridden out or disgusted enough to leave.

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Response to Selahedin (Reply #21)

Wed May 14, 2014, 10:17 AM

106. disgusted enough to leave.

Bingo! Though I haven't actually left. I still read regularly. I just quit bothering to post some few months ago.

My disgust is rooted in noticing, over the past year or so, the increasing regularity and frequency of what I view as small/narrow minded driven responses and the (judging from my own jury experiences) subsequent and mostly ridiculous alerts.

As a general example I offer this scenario:

Someone makes the news for saying or doing something especially despicable. The news item gets posted. Inevitably, someone will comment in a post dripping with undisguised condemnation but referring to the despicable one with some variation of "fuckt__, sonofab___, motherf____" as well as many other crude or vulgar names.

Almost immediately someone else will take issue with HOW something was said rather than WHAT was said, and the piling on begins from the usual suspects. They'll do this even though it requires that the context of the remarks, that they're so duty bound to be offended by, be completely discounted and willfully ignored. They'll do this even while agreeing with, or at least not disputing, the opinion that the despicable one is, indeed, despicable. Often, the tone of the thread will change from how the despicable one is so very despicable to how horrible the person must be that pointed out what a POS he is, because of HOW he chose to phrase that opinion.

I see this type of thing more and more over at the DU. For a long while the narrow minded and sheeple like behavior was mildly amusing. Then it happened to me. Twice in the space of a week, resulting in 1 hidden post. All over relatively benign remarks. Once, my expression of condemnation of a person who had said some horrific things publicly. The other, the one that was hidden, concerned the thankfully failed attempt at an especially repulsive and mindless act.

Having a post hidden and and being pilloried by nitwits wasn't catastrophic for me, by any stretch. I'm an adult. I can take internet insults with a grain a salt. The problem, for me, was in the few PMs I got which basically called me worse names than the ones I'd used in my replies, which, in context, were really not that shocking or bad. Certainly not when compared to the many variations of shits, fucks sucks and asses that other used while expressing the same exact opinions as I. That people would stoop to that level while, I assume, calling themselves progressives with all the enlightenment implied, is wholly unacceptable, not to mention hypocritical.

That and the fact that 4 of 7 people would agree with the small minded view of whoever pretended to be offended enough to alert. I just don't have the tolerance to associate myself with that level of intentional, willful ignorance.

Currently, at DU, I am enjoying every opportunity to serve on juries and vote not to hide in every instance. I still regard it as a starting point on news and issues I care about. I'm probably done commenting there though, which after nearly 8 years, makes me a little sad.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:50 PM

26. K&R

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 10:51 PM

27. DU is being trolled

And the same trolls that started the gender wars started the "white privilege" arguments. Some of the feminists at DU are the real deal, but a handful are trolling the place.

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:12 PM

34. Trolls armored in sanctimony are still trolls.

It comes down to intent and their intent is clear from their tone.

As McLuhan said: "The medium IS the message".

Think about it.

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:46 PM

37. Agreed...nt

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:01 AM

42. I think the people that are trolling are those arguing what most all Dems stand for.

We get white privilege and women's issues and the trolls are those pretending it does not exist. Always feeding the hate.

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Response to longj (Reply #42)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:04 AM

44. And I think people are actually objecting to the tone more often than the content.

In a real conversation, who the fuck would deny that whites have privilege.

But when you do the rhetorical equivalent of mugging someone, they tend to get defensive.

And some people use that. They bully and bully and bully and then when they get the kickback they wanted, they say "Aha! You deny white privilege!"

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #44)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:16 AM

51. I disagree. It is not that hard. The people that are continually poking the argument that they get

it, they just do not like the tone, are the very ones that show often, how they do not get it, they do not agree with white privilege, nor will they allow themselves to be "forced" into accepting it. I think there are a lot of people on DU, that like their privilege, and you will have to pry it out of their dead cold hands.

They make sure they are hear loudly and often. Otherwise, they would not be equally starting threads about both feminism and white privilege, poking the oppressed people in the eye.

Then saying they get it, only the "tone" gets in the way.

All of it is not hard. It is there. We know it. Done.

Simple

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Response to longj (Reply #51)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:48 AM

67. Well maybe I can share my perspective, with honesty.

I know I have white privilege. I live having white privilege. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I wish everyone had it.

I admit to having it. I get it.

But that doesn't mean I appreciate it being used as a bludgeon over and over.

Is THAT so hard to understand? That both are possible?

Right here you have as honest admission. But if I dare speak out that I think there is also bullying going on, some will double down and say I "really don't get it" and continue to excuse their bad behavior. And YES, hurting people is bad behavior.

Now, you might say "what is hurtful about saying white men this and white men that."

And the answer is surprisingly obvious if you try to listen: People want to be individuals, not creatures jammed into a shoebox and stripped of that individuality. Reducing people down to stereotypes is hurtful. Period. If you can't get that, you have not learned enough to be a really decent human.

Done.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #67)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:58 AM

69. Especially when wielding that bludgeon is seen as a legitimate alternative to real action. n/t

 

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #67)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:08 AM

72. This would be the honest conversation you were wanting? A rant about

your expectations of people, and how they should behavior per your demand and conclude with a DONE.

Come on. You can do better than that.

Maybe a lot of the problem is, there are threads started not because of you, as you get it. But, because other people have continued to argue the existence of white privilege. Denying the existence. That argument and those discussions has nothing to do with you.

Maybe, all of du is not progressing expressively for you and other participants help create the continuation of the conversation.

I was a part of one, maybe two of the threads. I said what i wanted to say. I no longer went into any more threads, for a couple of weeks. I know that those threads are resulting not for me, directly.

DONE.

Nah, forget the done. That is silly.

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Response to longj (Reply #72)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:17 AM

77. Did you miss that your post was the first that ended with "Done"?

I WANT to see better conversation here and extend my hand in hopes of it.

As for white privilege, I too have nothing more to say about it. It exists and I wish it did not or that it was there for everyone.

But it would be just as useful to call it racism AGAINST POC than it is to say "White privilege" and that makes me wonder whether the discussion exists -in large part - as an attempt to move things forward or (what I think) is more like an exercise in gunfire between passengers on board the titanic.

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Response to longj (Reply #51)


Response to longj (Reply #42)

Thu May 15, 2014, 12:05 AM

149. Always feeding the hate is what some do best.

My WMP is doing just fine in case your interested.

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:09 AM

73. I'm convinced most of the HOFers are trolls

 

Hell, one of them has (had?) a sock on DU when she was temporarily suspended and they still didn't PPR her.

Wonder why?

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #73)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:20 AM

82. Ah Doctor, your obsession with HOF is what got you kicked off the first time.

What makes you so obsessed with a handful of women?

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Response to longj (Reply #82)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:22 AM

83. Who says I'm kicked off?

 



You have no idea who I am/was on DU.

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Response to The Doctor (Reply #83)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:23 PM

139. I have an idea

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Response to longj (Reply #82)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:38 AM

99. yikes!

 

"What makes you so obsessed with a handful of women?"

when facts aren't available for discourse, fight with frame. and this was a great job too.

i personally prefer this stack when arguing most gender issues:

facts
frame change
shaming language
back to facts
appeal to authority
a quick "no true scottsman" fallacy
shaming again
and if that fails, the old "don't hit me I'm a girl/boy/victim" as a dog whistle to the White Knights.

what a great website this will be!

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Response to longj (Reply #82)


Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:32 AM

87. It's an anonymous posting board...

if I were looking to maximize disruption of a good liberal/progressive board, I'd get a dozen friends (matters not what real sex you are) and I'd spin myself as the most rad feminist ever! I'd demand a protected forum so I could insult everyone who wouldn't kowtow to my bullshit. No better way to destroy a liberal/progressive website that inciting unpproductive gender wars.

I suspect that they'll be a lot less of these threads without a protected homebase from which to operate out of...that will be a good thing for this new site.

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:53 AM

89. Well, it's pretty easy to rile up deeply insecure men

Seems less a case of "trolling" and more an issue of people desperately wanting to be trolled.

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Response to Twilight Sporkle (Reply #89)

Wed May 14, 2014, 08:09 AM

102. i see a ton of insecure men out in real life too.

 

its a real issue for many reasons.

feminism would be awesome if it wasn't for those darned men!

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Thu May 15, 2014, 01:34 AM

151. That is a rightwing concept, it's called "trolling from the left."

The far right has been doing it for years, at places like DU, too.

http://readersupportednews.org/pm-section/78-78/5872-right-wing-sock-puppets-pretending-to-be-liberals-assault-progressive-websites

One of these is Doug Goetzloe, an anti-tax right-wing talk show host and former Young Republican who heads up Advantage Consultants. Here is the copy from one of his ads advising his conservative clients to ‘flood the zone’ on progressive sites:

“Are you ready for a blog attack?

“Get ahead of your opponent with Professional Blog Warriors.

“Be prepared to ‘flood the zone’ with comments from professionals who are ready to put your talking points on the blogosphere 24/7.

“Whether it's defense or offense, Advantage Consultants has a dedicated team of experienced blog warriors ready to advance your candidate or campaign.

“Why wait for the attack? Launch your attack with a battery of blog and forum comments aimed at all media and blog sites in your district.

If it sounds like a right wing PARODY of a liberal or progressive viewpoint, it probably is.

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #27)

Thu May 15, 2014, 10:48 AM

152. Some trolls are the Bane of that place

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Response to Blue Links (Reply #152)

Thu May 15, 2014, 01:11 PM

155. Yes, and it's not to hard to see beyond their tactics n/t

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Response to Badlander (Reply #155)

Thu May 15, 2014, 03:14 PM

160. *rolls eyes*

Not even clever.

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Response to Stars (Reply #160)

Thu May 15, 2014, 08:36 PM

167. *shrugs*

Thanks for the feedback. Your opinion matters.

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Response to Badlander (Reply #155)

Sun May 18, 2014, 02:32 AM

177. HA! You both nailed those two!!!

It was great to read what was on DU once one could see beyond those that weren't allowed to post for a long while!

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Response to Blue Links (Reply #152)

Fri May 16, 2014, 05:18 PM

173. They just don't realize the we can Sea what they are doing...

eom

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:53 PM

38. I'm here with the same hope.

Some new land and some fresh air could do me well. DU can be very stifling and it often feels while posting that you're not so much talking to someone as trying to avoid a snare.

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Response to msv (Reply #38)

Tue May 13, 2014, 11:59 PM

39. "Trying to avoid a snare" is a perfect way to describe it.

A collection of gotcha moments and then you can expect someone to call you out in a protected group or PM.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:00 AM

40. I dunno. I had one poster look at two of my posts, and identify me. I am not thinking it will

be too awfully anonymous.

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Response to longj (Reply #40)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:02 AM

43. Most of the time people say "I know who that is", they are probably wrong. nt

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #43)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:26 AM

55. No. I received a PM on DU. They got me after two posts. I am going to trust, we are

anonymous.

Yes. I can see the fun in interacting without the baggage. But, I do not trust it happening.

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Response to longj (Reply #55)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:42 AM

63. Yes, you are probably right.

But it isn't just the "fun" aspect. It is the freedom to not have everything you say viewed through a prism, a funhouse mirror.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Reply #63)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:46 AM

66. I agree. We will see how long it lasts. nt

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Response to longj (Reply #40)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:02 PM

127. I agree; people will be guessing anyway

Kind of fun.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 12:26 AM

54. I consider myself unabashedly liberal.

 

But tippy-toeing around topics, and hyper-vigilance over sources (are the DOJ or NEJM acceptable sources? Can I link to a magazine that once said something controversial?) gets tiresome.

I became a liberal because I don't like to put up with that shit, and "white privilege" is a good example. It's not enough to accept that I'm priviliged, I also must make all other whites (men, of course... just the men) fully understand their infinite degree of privilege before we can...

... what, exactly?

I'd like to get to that point where we're doing something about injustice rather than just trying to make white men feel unworthy because of it. We've been stuck in this rut - not for days - but years.

I'll go back, but I think this will be a great site to blow off that steam and talk through these issues without the same cadre of "flaming haired stalkers" dominating every jury.

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Response to liberalguy (Reply #54)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:11 AM

76. Agreed.

 

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:19 AM

80. Me too!

And there's a good chance the notorious bunch of bullies won't be able to take over this venue precisely because of the wider field of allowable discourse. They drove me off DU, and I'm not the only one.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:27 AM

85. Thank you, very well said.

I feel as if a weight has been lifted off of me. Like you, I can finally post as I truly feel and not "hold back". For those who don't like the new board, I'll just say- here, let me hold the door open for you. (Evil smile that hopefully some will "get").

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 02:43 AM

93. That the feminists need 3 groups on Du is telling

"History" of feminism should just be renamed "Meta safe group".

The fems on DU cannot even get along with each other enough to have one solidifying group and are amazed when other don't agree with them.

Addressing the issues seems to be address the people on du we don't like and who don't view an issue the same as we do. Case in point, magazine covers (you thought I was going to say doors didn't you). Everyone looks at the SI cover and sees something different. If you don't see what you are 'supposed' to see you are a sexist with a problem.

Different opinions exist (hence the need for 3 groups) - labeling everyone as an mra misogynist pervert really is not discussing - it is bullying people into keeping their mouths shut. A bubble as it were.

White privilege exists. Loads of sexism in the world. We all got issues and problems. Now let's discuss them like adults and stop telling people they don't care or a b or c because they don't discuss the issue the way we want them to. I have never seen so much tearing apart of things as I have on DU. Ever. Anywhere.

Get over the fact that your view isn't the only one that exists and is valid and instead of looking at everything like you just got done with homework in a feminist class and know all the answers actually to listen to people. Instead it becomes a shouting match of eternal victim-hood and oppression and why can't we just ban people not like us.

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Response to Strange Luck (Reply #93)

Wed May 14, 2014, 04:21 PM

138. Why the obsession with feminists on DU?

The subject of this OP is shedding that past baggage, but here you are loaded it up again. Why is that?

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 03:02 AM

94. So far,

I see no difference between this and DU. Time will tell.

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Response to defictus (Reply #94)

Wed May 14, 2014, 03:42 AM

95. Agreed.

I think it will change a lot as the membership gets more diverse. It just started and needs time to grow. Or flounder. As you said, time will tell.

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Response to Sigurd (Reply #95)

Wed May 14, 2014, 01:06 PM

113. Or you can say as the membership becomes more perverse

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:55 AM

105. Hi Bonobo

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Response to froyo (Reply #105)

Wed May 14, 2014, 09:10 PM

148. LOL

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Response to froyo (Reply #105)

Sat May 17, 2014, 01:26 PM

175. Yup. You got it in one.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 06:43 PM

142. I miss DU

I got banned for 3rd party advocacy .. I hope that doesn't happen here..

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Response to mdmc1 (Reply #142)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:20 PM

144. I don't think you can be banned for that here

You can support third parties or the GOP.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:33 PM

145. I think a few have figured out who I am.

I told a few as well.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Wed May 14, 2014, 07:53 PM

147. Oh, don't worry, there'll be

misperceptions associated with our identities here soon enough also. You can't really avoid it on most message boards, frankly.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Thu May 15, 2014, 11:18 AM

153. Echo chambers get boring after a while,

so I'll be bouncing around between here and DU.

Not that there aren't some different and controversial opinions over there, but it seems like nobody really wants to hear them.

And it's asinine, IMO, for people to ask questions like, "Why do Republicans/RWers/Conservatives do/say/think ______________ (fill in the blank)" and expect to get a real answer from people who don't know shit about what or why someone else would do/say/think something. All you get is a thread full of people speculating on the whys and wherefores, but no real answers.

At least here people can ask that question and a real actual Republican/RWer/Conservative will answer the question from his point of view. We may not agree, but at least people have gotten the TRUTH about someone's state of mind rather than a bunch of imagined bullshit.


And in the end, I think that DUers will find that Conservatives aren't all a bunch of rude assholes. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to be pleasantly surprised by that discovery, unless they don't want it to mess with their preconceived notions (read: prejudices) about certain groups of people.

I, for one, welcome the chance to actually see how Conservatives think, as long as the discussions remain relatively civil.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Thu May 15, 2014, 02:11 PM

157. I'd rather bet....

that DU will NOT miss you. What an ugly post.

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Thu May 15, 2014, 03:00 PM

159. hi

I pretty much gave up on DU about 6 months ago...still posted sometimes but mainly out of boredom.
I became a clique tribes thing in the last 9 months or so ala Lord of The Flies.

I like this place so far...let's hope we can all remain civil and we may actually have some good discussions

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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Thu May 15, 2014, 03:55 PM

165. It isn't fun trying to post with a target on your back.









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Response to Greggery Peccary (Original post)

Sat May 17, 2014, 02:14 PM

176. on the topic of white privilege

 

As someone on the right and a lurker at DU it was interesting to watch people use racial politics on their own. Ive come up with some more social dividers as well that can drive a wedge through America:

Genetic privilege: can be used to discredit athletic achievment, good health, attractive physique etc.

Sexual orientation privilege: can be used as a case for letting same sex couples get first dibs on adoption. Im sure theres more as well.

Iam sure there are more labels we can up with to make people feel guilty and discredit any kind of achievement they work hard for.

Obeisity privelge: we can argue fat people should pay a penalty for taking up more room and taking in more oxygen.

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