Sciencesciencerebuttallessonexplanation

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 08:20 PM

What constitutes heat in air? Thermal energy.

44 replies, 913 views

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Reply What constitutes heat in air? Thermal energy. (Original post)
Micrometer Jul 2018 OP
oflguy Jul 2018 #1
Micrometer Jul 2018 #3
oflguy Jul 2018 #4
Micrometer Jul 2018 #5
oflguy Jul 2018 #6
Micrometer Jul 2018 #7
oflguy Jul 2018 #8
Micrometer Jul 2018 #9
oflguy Jul 2018 #10
Micrometer Jul 2018 #11
oflguy Jul 2018 #12
Micrometer Jul 2018 #13
oflguy Jul 2018 #14
Micrometer Jul 2018 #15
oflguy Jul 2018 #16
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #18
oflguy Jul 2018 #21
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #24
oflguy Jul 2018 #25
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #26
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #17
oflguy Jul 2018 #22
Micrometer Jul 2018 #28
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #29
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #20
oflguy Jul 2018 #23
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #27
oflguy Jul 2018 #31
Micrometer Jul 2018 #32
oflguy Jul 2018 #33
Micrometer Jul 2018 #34
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #35
oflguy Jul 2018 #36
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #37
Cold Warrior Jul 2018 #38
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #39
Cold Warrior Jul 2018 #40
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #41
oflguy Jul 2018 #43
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #44
Jack Burton Jul 2018 #2
SatansSon666 Jul 2018 #19
TheShoe Jul 2018 #30
LeeCPTINF Jul 2018 #42

Response to Micrometer (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 08:25 PM

1. I could say warm molecules too

But the answer is a culmination of the air's latent and sensible heat.

You have no idea what that means but that is not my fault.

As a global warming expert, you should know, however.

Try this: Google it to learn what it means.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 09:53 PM

3. Heat is thermal energy.

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 09:56 PM

4. Heat in air has a definite designation

Try Google

A block of wood has thermal energy also but I specified air.

You won't Google it because you are a lefty and you can't admit you are wrong and I am right.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 10:01 PM

5. Heat is thermal energy.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Heat+is+thermal+energy.&oq=Heat+is+thermal+energy.&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Thermal energy is an example of kinetic energy, as it is due to the motion of particles,
with motion being the key. Thermal energy results in an object or a system having a
temperature that can be measured. Thermal energy can be transferred from one object
or system to another in the form of heat.



What is Thermal Energy? - Definition & Examples

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 10:09 PM

6. Can't do it huh?



I love this forum

What are you afraid of? That you'll learn something? From a conservative??

Air has more than just thermal energy. In air that is called sensible heat so you are only partially right.

The other component is latent heat. Together they make up the total heat in air.

Can you guess why this topic is relevant to global warming?

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Response to oflguy (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 10:35 PM

7. Heat is thermal energy.

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 10:37 PM

8. I'll take that as a big NO

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Response to oflguy (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 10:40 PM

9. Heat is thermal energy.

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 11:00 PM

10. Words can't explain

How much I love this forum sometimes

Not in air, my man (if you are a man)

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Response to oflguy (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 11:21 PM

11. Heat is thermal energy.

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 11:26 PM

12. Wrong answer

when talking about air

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Response to oflguy (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 11:29 PM

13. Heat is thermal energy.

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 11:33 PM

14. So?

Nobody asked what heat is silly boi

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Response to oflguy (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 11:51 PM

15. You did.

oflguy (13,244 posts)
23. Wrong again

So, you are an expert on global warming and a guru in science, huh?

What constitutes heat in air?

https://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=27081

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 11:55 PM

16. I know you can't make a distinction

But I said what is heat in air.

Thermal energy is the wrong answer.

I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #16)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 04:40 AM

18. What constitutes heat in lava?

The sensible heat in the liquid lava or the latent heat from the melting of rocks and vaporization of water?
What happens to the latent heat energy used in the phase changes?
How is it different in the air?

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:27 AM

21. Lava is not air

off topic, but all latent heat changes involve a transformation of phase such as liquid to vapor, or vapor to liquid, or liquid to solid.

Can you think of a phase change that bypasses the liquid state?

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Response to oflguy (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:05 AM

24. The principle is the same though.

Lava is a liquid mixture of elements and molecules, with phase changes, air is a gaseous mixture of elements and molecules with phase changes. Unless it's completely dry air, no H2O, no phase changes, no latent heat.
The same laws apply.
That's why I said it. You seemed to be under the impression that these laws act differently in air than other substances and mixtures . They don't.

CO2 skips the liquid phase. That's why it stays in the air. It won't codense to a liquid and goes directly to solid at around -78 celcius, I think, I could be wrong about the temperature there.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:17 AM

25. CO2 can be liquefied

I have a beer can holder that says, "Just because I don't care does not mean I don't understand."

I like that holder.

Direct solid to vapor transformation is called sublimation.

More than just CO2 can sublimate though.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:44 AM

26. Liquid CO2 requires 5 or 6 times the atmospheric pressure

And cold stable temperatures at that pressure. I can't remember the temperatures offhand, but probably around -60 C.
Special containers and equipment is required to store in liquid co2. It is delicate.
You can also observe liquid and solid co2 in the same place when the conditions are just right. I've done it. Many times.
Same container, liquid, solid and gaseous CO2.
Keeping co2 liquid requires equipment and all that good stuff, in nature, it solidifies and bypasses liquid phase.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 04:35 AM

17. Sensible and latent heat are both thermal energy.

The only difference being latent heat doesn't cause a temperature change in the water as the phase changes from gas to liquid.
Latent heat isn't reserved for the air. It's the hidden energy used normally in a phase change. It has to be distinct from sensible heat because there is no change in temperature during the phase change. You can't "feel it". Even though a lot more energy is required to change the phase than to change the temperature by 1 degree.

Both are thermal energy.




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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:42 AM

22. By golly, you are right

I never considered latent heat as "thermal" but by definition it is.

Now, back to my point in asking what constitutes heat in air.

We keep track of "record heat" using sensible heat measurements only, when, in fact, the amount of heat in air is a combination of sensible and latent heat. So, in reality, we really can't say that a particular day "set a new record" because we don't know what the total heat is when using only sensible measurements.

The amount of heat in air can be doubled by just adding more water vapor to a sample of air. We go around talking about global warming in terms of tenths of a degree when actually we are "flying blind" about how warm air really is.

For an example, 104 degree air in Arizona when the relative humidity is 5 percent is quite different from 104 degree air at 80 percent. Without the other "half" of the heat equation, we just don't know the true quantity of heat in air.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:42 AM

28. If only someone had told you that heat is thermal energy.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #22)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 10:34 AM

29. They do know.

By the humidity of the air.
It feels hotter in humid air, not necessarily because it is hotter, it's harder for us to cool off due to the presence of water vapor.
The reason humid air has more energy is because the thermal mass of water is higher than the rest of the air. It's takes more energy to heat up water molecules than the rest.
If you know the temperature of the air and the humidity of the air you calculate the energy because the humidity tells you how much water is mixed in with it.
Or if you know the energy of the air and the temperature, you can tell the humidity. Just by reversing the formulas.

As air heats up it expands. This allows more room for the water molecules, which allows more water molecules. The hotter and more excited the air gets, the more water molecules can exist in the volume of air. As the molecules get more excited from heat energy more and more can mix with the air molecules again and again. After a certain point there is not enough room for the water molecules to keep up the velocity required to keep the forces attracting them at bay, so they coalesce and condense to liquid. This releases energy. This can be from cooling (less volume) or reaching a dew point where there is not enough room for the water molecules to keep the energy they need and they condense. They release far more energy than simple cooling, phase changes absorb or release more energy than simple cooling or heating.
This energy has to go somewhere, it isn't destroyed, so as the water condenses and releases it's energy, where does it go?

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Response to oflguy (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:12 AM

20. What constitutes heat in warm molecules?

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:45 AM

23. I don't care

If you want to change the subject, try a new thread.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:56 AM

27. Staying on subject then.

OP was right.
Heat is thermal energy.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 01:57 PM

31. But I didn't ask what heat was

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Response to oflguy (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 02:41 PM

32. Yes you did.

oflguy (13,256 posts)

23. Wrong again

So, you are an expert on global warming and a guru in science, huh?

What constitutes heat in air?

https://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=27081

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Response to Micrometer (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 02:50 PM

33. You poor boy

I truly feel sorry for you

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Response to oflguy (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 02:58 PM

34. No, you don't.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 04:43 AM

35. You did.

Heat is heat.
In gases, in liquids and solids. It doesn't work differently in air. Thermodynamics.
Your only reasoning was that you didn't think latent heat was thermal energy. Now you know. So you should know that it works the same in all substances.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 06:24 AM

36. I specifically said heat in air

The study of moisture in air is called psychrometrics. It is a science unto itself. No, all substances do not work the same. Heat in air is composed of its latent and sensible heat components. All substances do not contain water vapor like air. Just knowing the sensible component is like having a picture frame without the image.

Why does it matter in regard to global warming? I'll let you imagination handle that for now. I'm in a hurry.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #36)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 07:32 AM

37. Yes, but it doesn't matter.

Just because it's air. Water has a higher thermal mass than the rest of the mixture of gases. It just takes more energy to heat water to the same temperature.
Transfer of energy works the same way.
Some things take more energy to heat up than others but other than that it's all excited molecules interacting with each other and the barrier if there is one.
Any mixture of gases that have a component that changes phases will have latent heat energy. It's not a mystery. The reason it's weird is because the is no change in temperature during a phase change but requires a lot more energy than just heating it up a degree. It'd s little harder to calculate latent heat, well it was, now it's understood.

Didn't know we were talking about global warming..

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #37)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 07:53 AM

38. His question games always lead to Global Warming

and they all go through Loudmouth Crowder...

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Response to Cold Warrior (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 08:03 AM

39. I don't pay attention to Crowder.

Anyone that is solely motivated for or against scientific knowledge and research based on political agendas obviously doesn't really care what the science says.
It took me a bunch of posts just to explain tp him that a watt isnn't a unit of heat.
Then he tells me to educate myself and gives me a link that says exactly what I was telling him the whole time.
I underatnd he's under the impression that the water cycle will take care of everything but it won't forever. When a system is retaining more thermal energy than it can reject it eventually gives in. The water cycle cannot keep up forever. How long it will take, I don't know, but the effects are noticeable now so it'd only a matter of time.
Al Gore really did a number on some people with his hyperbolic documentary.
I don't get my science from Al fuckin' Gore.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #39)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 08:11 AM

40. That's the problem with a lot of those who don't accept Climate Change

They don't like the political aspects of the proposed solutions. And that's a fair position as, for example, some of the tenets of the Paris treaty are objectionable. However, it's a reason to propose a more palatable solution, not a reason to deny the science and the problem.

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Response to Cold Warrior (Reply #40)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 08:21 AM

41. Even politicians pander to them.

They know if they start to accept science the people will reject them.
Better to make believe than learn and understand it in a lot of cases I guess.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #39)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 05:06 PM

43. "Anyone that is solely motivated for or against scientific knowledge and research based on

political agendas obviously doesn't really care what the science says."

Boy, was THAT a mouthful!

You should tell that to United Nations official Christiana Figueres, who announced at a news conference in Brussels that the Global Warming conspiracy set by the U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, of which she is the executive secretary, does not have as its goal to save the world from ecological calamity, but to destroy capitalism.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/global-warming-is-about-destroying-capitalism/

Who told you the earth is retaining more thermal energy than it can reject?

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Response to oflguy (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 05:58 PM

44. That's why I said anyone FOR or AGAINST.

I don't pick a side when it comes to that shit.
If someone is gonna lie about stuff to push something, they simply have no credibility to me.

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Response to Micrometer (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 08:27 PM

2. methane

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Response to Jack Burton (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:10 AM

19. Heheh

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Response to Micrometer (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 10:57 AM

30. Guys, heat is intelligent warning.

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Response to Micrometer (Original post)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 08:46 AM

42. Dafuq did I just read. I feel dumber having suffered through this entire thread

Take a thermo class. Hell, pick up a copy of Thermodynamics for Dummies. Jeebus, I need to go wash off now.

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Sciencesciencerebuttallessonexplanation