Sciencescience

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 08:38 AM

Renewables (solar wind) are silly

Jessie Watters tweeted something like aren't you glad you're not trying yo heat your house with solar panels.

He/s being savaged in the twitter universe for being a dumbass, and not understanding science.

But he's basically correct.

Yes, panels work in the cold. However here's another factoid, people that claim they heat their home exclusively with solar panels, are just lying. No sun at night no power.

Anything that partially occludes the panel reduces the amount of electricity, the angle of the sun, snow, rain, clouds are all a problem. It's what killed the Mars rover, giant dust storm completely occluded the solar panels.

But here's the real problem, density, you need a shit load of land to produce a fraction of the electricity generated by a conventional power plant.

How much is a shit load, the largest solar farm in the world about 5,000 acres can't produce enough power to run the NYC subway system. That's about 6 times larger than central park.

The new green deal did not come from the party of science.

And no commercial airplanes, saying you can cover a 757 with solar panels and it will fly is laughable.



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Response to def_con5 (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 09:47 AM

1. brcause batteries, capacitors, and flywheels have not uet been invented

i am more concerned for those whose power lines go down in a blizzard.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 09:55 AM

2. That's what a stand generator is for

I have one as a backup, just in case. The only thing I can't do is run my well pump since it's run by 220v. I am unaware of any solar or wind system that can supply that.

Eventually I plan on getting one of those natural gas powered Generac systems that automatically kick on in the event of failure.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:06 AM

3. They make them.

You can also buy a converter for 110 to 220.
Not sure how it would work from your panel, but I'm sure an electrician could figure that out for you.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:10 AM

4. I've had it looked at

I could do it with the Generac, not so much with the small 7000 watt gen I have now. I'm down almost 350 feet and the amp draw is just too much for small systems. I keep 20 gallons in reserve in water cooler jugs for just such an emergency.

If worse comes to worse and that runs out there is always beer.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:13 AM

5. Haha. Yeah.

Just make sure you have cash.
Debit machines won't work.


My well is only 70 feet but it is still a lot of resistance. 350 feet would cause a problem I'd imagine.

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Response to SatansSon666 (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:21 AM

7. We're a few hundred yards from the highest point in the county

So they had to drill down through that whole "mountain" before they could get to the water table. I am lucky the house had two wells when I bought it. The older original, shallower well silted up last year. It's no great loss, however. It only had a 1/2 gallon per minute pump in it. I'm getting a bit over 9 potentially out of the newer one.

Western PA is a pretty lousy area for any alternative power plans. We are cloudier than Seattle with not a lot of steady wind.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:46 AM

11. don't underestimate

after katrina i had keys to several neighborhood bars. the beer was warm but liquid. i did forget that the bars sold cigarets so when the wife wanted some i tracked down the guy who had looted the local grocery. oh well.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #11)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:50 AM

12. I suppose if we are talking about a blizzard

There is always all the snow outside you could melt. I did that once when we had a ice storm followed by snow that put the power out for a week. I saved the bottled for drinking and cooking and used the snowmelt to wash in and flush the toilet with. I basically lived in front of the fireplace for the duration.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:20 AM

6. There are solar well systems

for around $2500.

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Response to orson (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:24 AM

8. Most rely on 110v, however, or even DC power

It's simply not practical once you get as deep as I am. I considered and looked into it as a backup power source. You just can't make it work here.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:30 AM

9. The system i looked at

said it was effective to 350 feet.

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Response to orson (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:45 AM

10. There are a few

Most are two rather than three wire, very expensive on the back end for maintenance purposes. That leaves you in a position where you are looking at potentially several thousand rather than a few hundred if something goes wrong.That would be fine if it was for a supplementary system, not so much when it's your only source.

The one you describe is at the very limits of my well depth. That would end up making it work under constant maximum strain, something I suspect would greatly shorten it's lifespan. Not the best formula for ROI.

If I planned on staying here (which I don't) I'd consider putting a cistern system in. Then I could use a low power pump to get the water into the house and I could even use what you described to just periodically top the cistern off, which could be done at a much slower trickle rate

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 10:53 AM

13. The use of a cistern

was assumed in the literature I looked at. We lost power in the last blow and were without water for 4 days which as why I was looking. Our well is surrounded by 100 foot fir trees so solar isn't really an option.

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Response to orson (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 1, 2019, 11:15 AM

14. Yeah, it has always functioned as a "well on demand" system with a deep well pressure tank

It was what was here when I bought the place 15 years ago. Like I said, if I were staying here, I'd upgrade, but right now, for both my wife and I we are out of here once our parents are gone. We are both only children, so we really need to be around for now, but that is really the only thing holding us here.

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Response to def_con5 (Original post)

Sat Feb 2, 2019, 08:24 PM

15. Solar has a place, but is generally not a replacement for grid power

I have solar panels on a utility building in my yard that I built specifically to install solar panels on. A "net meter" measures power from the grid to my house and when I'm not using much electricity, it measures the extra power that flows out onto the grid. My utility bill (I'm all electric) is less than half what it used to be.

The solar generates 240 volts. If the grid goes down, so does my solar, so I have a generator for emergencies. Once I'm isolated from the grid with the generator on, the solar will "wake up" again and supplement the generator if I choose to do so.

Solar and wind are cool but they are not a replacement for grid power unless you spend inordinate amounts of money on it. In order to go off grid you need either backup generators, batteries or a combination of both, and batteries are not cheap.

The best bet for a loss of grid power is a backup generator.

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Response to oflguy (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 11:51 AM

18. You can not run a modern economy on solar and wind

There just isn't enough land. Wind and solar farms have tremendous footprints. Not to mention they are unreliable.

It;s finally warming up here, looks like we may hit 45 today.

But a couple of days ago it was 3 in the morning and about 10 by 1 PM. Al kinds of precip was falling, show, sleet, even ice fog And it was as still as could be, the wind might have been 2.

How the hell was I gonna heat my house in weather like that?

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Response to def_con5 (Original post)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 09:41 AM

16. Guy in New Jersey hasn't paid a cent for electricity or gas since 2006



Inside the Solar-Hydrogen House: No More Power Bills--Ever
A New Jersey resident generates and stores all the power he needs with solar panels and hydrogen

By David Biello on June 19, 2008

EAST AMWELL, N.J.—Mike Strizki has not paid an electric, oil or gas bill—nor has he spent a nickel to fill up his Mercury Sable—in nearly two years. Instead, the 51-year-old civil engineer makes all the fuel he needs using a system he built in the capacious garage of his home, which employs photovoltaic (PV) panels to turn sunlight into electricity that is harnessed in turn to extract hydrogen from tap water... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hydrogen-house/



Jessie Watters is a brilliant man, just not about renewable energy

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Response to Aquila (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 3, 2019, 11:46 AM

17. i wouldn't consider hydrogen revewable

And anyway I specifically singled out solar and wind.

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Response to Aquila (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 4, 2019, 07:23 AM

19. So $39,000 for a 2kw power source

I can run my refrigerator and house lites with that, but what happens when I need hot water? Now we're talking another 6Kw and I still haven't turned on my cooling or heating unit, which uses another 20kw.

But then, its New Jersey. I'm sure they don't wash dishes or take baths, and who needs heat when the temperature drops to 0?

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