Sciencescience

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 09:52 PM

Evidence for man-made global warming hits 'gold standard': scientists

OSLO (Reuters) - Evidence for man-made global warming has reached a "gold standard" level of certainty, adding pressure for cuts in greenhouse gases to limit rising temperatures, scientists said on Monday.

"Humanity cannot afford to ignore such clear signals," the U.S.-led team wrote in the journal Nature Climate Change of satellite measurements of rising temperatures over the past 40 years.

They said confidence that human activities were raising the heat at the Earth's surface had reached a "five-sigma" level, a statistical gauge meaning there is only a one-in-a-million chance that the signal would appear if there was no warming.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1QE1ZU


"I might get burned up by the sun,
but I've had my fun!"


23 replies, 389 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply Evidence for man-made global warming hits 'gold standard': scientists (Original post)
wonderwarthog Feb 2019 OP
imwithfred Feb 2019 #1
wonderwarthog Feb 2019 #4
Cold Warrior Feb 2019 #5
nolidad Feb 2019 #10
quad489 Feb 2019 #6
Cold Warrior Feb 2019 #2
wonderwarthog Feb 2019 #3
Jack Burton Feb 2019 #7
GoodKraic Feb 2019 #8
foia Feb 2019 #9
MeatSandwich Feb 2019 #11
Jack Burton Feb 2019 #12
MeatSandwich Feb 2019 #13
Currentsitguy Feb 2019 #14
Jack Burton Feb 2019 #15
Currentsitguy Feb 2019 #16
SatansSon666 Feb 2019 #19
wonderwarthog Feb 2019 #17
Currentsitguy Feb 2019 #18
wonderwarthog Mar 2019 #21
oflguy Feb 2019 #20
wonderwarthog Mar 2019 #22
oflguy Mar 2019 #23

Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 09:54 PM

1. So.....the United States has been reducing greenhouse gases for years now.

When are the Demos and primitives going to insist that India, China, et. al, reduce theirs?

I'm tired of the United States making all the sacrifices, the only sacrifices.

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 09:57 PM

4. So we can all argue as time goes by



and all die together.

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 09:59 PM

5. Actually, the US production of greenhouse gases increased substantially in 2018

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Response to Cold Warrior (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 07:37 AM

10. Not hard data

but statistics, analyses and data engineering!

In their own article they admit that natural gas has taken over record level of fuel burning and natural gas does njot add to the carbon footprint.

I am sure that once empirical data is fully in, that preliminary number will be revised downward!!!

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 10:19 PM

6. Great question...

"When are the Demos and primitives going to insist that India, China, et. al, reduce theirs?"

...don't be shocked when all you receive here is deflections and childish attacks VS them actually answering you.

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Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 09:55 PM

2. But, but, but Al Gore travels in a private jet

therefore the overwhelming scientific evidences for Man Made Cimate Change are false.

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Response to Cold Warrior (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 09:56 PM

3. ...




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Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 10:43 PM

7. More hype about a non-problem

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Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Mon Feb 25, 2019, 11:06 PM

8. What scientists cite this?

Every one is a climate “scientist” and makes a living from proving man-made global warming is true. If this was truly a 5 sigma certainly they could come up with accurate models.

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Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:37 AM

9. If it's reached the five sigma level

then I assume that these very scientists don't need to do any more climate research and are willing to pursue careers in other fields, right? They must be really smart guys. Shouldn't take them long to learn how to code.

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Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 10:41 AM

11. Actually it's six-sigma. They can't even tell the truth about that.

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Response to MeatSandwich (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 12:40 PM

12. Two different things.

Last edited Tue Feb 26, 2019, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Six Sigma is a set of statistical process control techniques for eliminating defects.

A Sigma Level is merely a determination of opportunities and defects. Sigma is a statistical term that measures how much a process varies from perfection, based on the number of defects per million units. Five-sigma is a measure of confidence. A five-sigma corresponds to a p-value, or probability, of 3x10-7, or about 1 in 3.5 million.

That said. All of these statistical measures rely on correctly understanding all the possible inputs and outputs and possible system states. In closed loop processes such as manufacturing this is relatively easy to define. IMO these scientists are incorrectly applying a technique that results in garbage findings.

Six-Sigma, like all scientific endeavors, is only as good as the application. As applied to the global warming hoax I think the confidence level is more aptly called GIGO-Sigma (Garbage In Garbage Out).

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Response to Jack Burton (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 03:39 PM

13. Six Sigma is the statistical standard that I use. GIGO is an adequate description

of what they are doing.

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Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 05:13 PM

14. Then we better start learning to to cope

Because no one is ever going to accept a declining standard of living, and that is what all the current proposals will result in. It is physically not possible to maintain base load, let alone peak demand with the methods demanded. Something must be expended at a predictable, constant rate to meet demand whether it be coal, natural gas, or turbines either nuclear or hydro.

Line loss due to material science limitations prevents long distance transmission, so generation must be near the consumption source. You can't have windmills in Texas or solar panels in Arizona powering New York. You also cannot supply base load from something as fickle and unpredictable as the weather.

This does not even begin to address the raw materials required to construct the amount of panels and turbines that would be required, regardless of their location. The steel, concrete, and other materials released in their manufacture will release 241.85 tons per turbine. Now, multiply that by the 500,000 turbines number proposed by AOC. That works out to 120,750,000 tons just in the manufacture not counting transportation and erection costs. What do you think that will do to the atmosphere and climate?

A few articles worth reading:

https://stopthesethings.com/2014/08/16/how-much-co2-gets-emitted-to-build-a-wind-turbine/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2012/sep/26/myth-wind-turbines-carbon-emissions
https://carboncounter.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/can-you-make-a-wind-turbine-without-fossil-fuels-2/
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/05/wind-turbines-are-neither-clean-nor-green-and-they-provide-zero-global-energy/
http://energyskeptic.com/2015/900-tons-of-material-to-build-just-1-windmill/

Bottom line is it's a pipe dream, no matter how pending the issue is.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 07:05 PM

15. but but but

Liberals are going to tax the rich. It's the universal solution to all problems.

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Response to Jack Burton (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 07:30 PM

16. So far

They haven't figured out how to tax the laws of physics.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 27, 2019, 06:53 AM

19. I'm sure they are working on it.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #14)

Tue Feb 26, 2019, 11:54 PM

17. When it affects our long term



economic and strategic military interests, things may happen.

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Response to wonderwarthog (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 27, 2019, 12:42 AM

18. Remember your Engineer Scott



The things I listed are not simply engineering or design challenges that are merely problems to be solved. You can't transmit electricity over distance without loss. You can't build something as formidable as a wind turbine without steel and concrete. You can't make steel without a blast furnace and coke or an arc melter along with nickel, chromium, vanadium, and several other additives in the case of scrap. You can't make concrete without cement which cannot be made without heating limestone to high temperature. All of these require the expenditure of huge amounts of energy. Remembr your 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.You can't get more out of something than you put in. All things trend toward entropy.

Look, I'll be the first one to say you shouldn't shit where you sleep. Wanton waste is just that, wanton and wasteful. We'd be better off looking into achievable technologies. India is kicking our ass in Molten Salt Thorium Reactor research. Have you looked into these? They may very well be the answer to our prayers. They operate at low temperature and are therefore meltdown proof. They can actually consume and render harmless existing stockpiles of nuclear waste as supplementary fuel. Their radiation is low enough to be handled virtually unprotected. They aren't even new technology. We simply weren't interested in the 50's and 60's because all the major powers wanted Light Water Breeder Reactors to produce weapons grade material.

With technology like this at least part of AOC's stated goal is achievable. We could convert much of our power grid over rather quickly if we cut through all the environmental and regulatory hurdles.The problem with the activists and policy makers today is they have hitched their wagon to a Utopian dream that is unachievable. Eden doesn't exist, and you can't build it.

It doesn't mean we should simply throw up our hands. We simply have to accept certain realities. One is all living things have an effect on their environment and surroundings. Everything right down to the ants on the ground do. There are 7 billion of us and growing. To believe we can live without leaving a HUGE footprint is either ignorant or willfully blind. Second is barring some horrific catastrophe that wipes out 90% of us we are not going back to the 18th or 17th Century, which is exactly what the proposals on the table will do. If you want to go back to life being "nasty, brutish, and short" I can think of no better way. Lastly if you think handing over control of virtually every aspect of your life to government bureaucrats that they aren't going to exercise that power over you you're fooling yourself.

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Response to Currentsitguy (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 12:59 AM

21. Well said.

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Response to wonderwarthog (Original post)

Wed Feb 27, 2019, 08:58 AM

20. Such crap

As soon as I read "Trump" I stopped reading this bullshit

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Response to oflguy (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 01:00 AM

22. I know!

Trump has that effect on me too!



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Response to wonderwarthog (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 2, 2019, 01:01 AM

23. Nothing but political bullshit

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