Lifelife

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:11 AM

Contract on America: who murdered JFK?

Out of boredom, the past couple of days I read "Contract on America" by David Scheim, published in 1988 on the 25th anniversary of the assassination of John Kennedy. I'm not fond of conspiracy theories, but anyway, he blames it on that all-purpose whipping boy, the mafia.

He didn't convince me anything was suspicious, mostly because he seemed w-a-a-a-a-a-y too sympathetic to the ruthless younger brother of JFK, the then-attorney general Robert Kennedy.

Of course dear Bobby had nothing to do with the death of his brother, which was probably as much a rude shock to him as it was to everybody else.

But because of the way he tried to manipulate information and events, he muddled up solving the mystery; there's lots of things we'll never know because of his attempts, legal and extra-legal, to control things.

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:49 AM

1. did you see the john birch society posters from dallas that week? i posted that recently.

dallas was full of cia stringers that week, my only question was if they were on the payroll at the time or contracted out.
lbj knew about the coup, approved, and facilitated the cover up.

Robert kennedy was killed to prevent his certain nomination for president and the resultant reopening of the case should he win.

I am of the (perhaps idealistic) opinion that the 1963 coup was a bad thing, and that we would now live in a far better world had it not occurred.

"now you know how it feels" madame nhu to Jackie kennedy.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 07:27 AM

3. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, sir, you're of that generation that blames LBJ for everything,

despite that he did more for the poor, the young, the aged, the minorities, than any president--although on other people's money, not his--especially any Kennedy.

LBJ was proof that no good deed goes unpunished.

As for the coup d'état in early November 1963 that toppled the government of South Vietnam, remember that Bobby played a great role in that, as he apparently decided the war there should be run by Americans, not the South Vietnamese. He was that way in just about everything, being a pathological control freak.

And again, my contention that history will never know who killed JFK, if anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald (which I myself doubt), because the then-attorney general tried to control information and events for his own purposes. But because he didn't "know all," his manipulations wreaked havoc with any investigation for facts.

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 09:49 AM

13. Bobby Kennedy was completely eliminated from his brother's murder investigation

Johnson selected people that hated Kennedy for the investigation. We know them as the Warren Commission. they suppressed and altered evidence, even falsifying some. Their "investigation" began with the premise that Oswald did it. Only "evidence" to that goal was allowed or analyzed.

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Response to rampartb (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:30 PM

8. Have you read

"November 22, 1963" by Stephen King?




----------------

"I am of the (perhaps idealistic) opinion that the 1963 coup was a bad thing, and that we would now live in a far better world had it not occurred. "

------------------------



It's full of nostalgia for those of us who lived through the 1960s, but it also takes the whole story of JFK's assassination and how the world might have been had he not been murdered, to a different place at the end

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:29 AM

2. Mossad. With little doubt. One only must look

at what transpired after the death of Kennedy. USS Liberty,l.

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Response to DillyDilly500 (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 07:56 AM

5. Why all this concern over accidental friendly fire and no concern about

all the American lives lost during terrorist hijackings of ships and airplanes, and massacres in public places?

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Response to imwithfred (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:55 PM

11. Accidental my ass. Read the interviews/reports from

the sailors onboard.

Oh yeah, I'm sure they are all anti Semites, amirite?

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Response to DillyDilly500 (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 9, 2019, 10:22 PM

16. Friendly fire, aka Fratricide happens ALL the time in wars, Clausewitz

a Selection of 1944 incidents alone-

8 June – a group of RAF Hawker Typhoons attacked the 175th Infantry Regiment, 29th U.S. Infantry Division on the Isigny Highway, France, causing 24 casualties.

During Operation Cobra, the American offensive push south from western Normandy, bombs from the U.S. Eighth Air Force landed on American troops on two separate occasions.
24 July – Some 1,600 bombers flew in support of the opening bombardment for Cobra. Due to bad weather they were unable to see their targets. Although some were recalled, and others declined to bomb without visibility, a number did, which hit U.S. positions. Twenty-five were killed and 131 wounded in this incident.

The following day, on 25 July, the operation was repeated by 1,800 bombers of 8th Air Force. On this occasion, the weather was clear, but despite requests by First Army commander Gen. Omar Bradley to bomb east to west, along the front in order to avoid creepback, the air commanders made their attack north to south, over Allied lines. As more and more bombs fell short, and U.S. positions again were hit, 111 were killed and 490 wounded. Lieutenant General Lesley McNair was among the dead, the highest-ranking victim of American friendly fire.


26 July – USAAF P-47s mistakenly strafed the US 644th Tank Destroyer Battalion near Perrières, France. 20 men were badly injured, but there were no fatalities.

27 July – The former HMS Sunfish was sunk by a British RAF Coastal Command aircraft in the Norwegian Sea during the beginning of its process of being transferred to the Soviet Navy. The Captain, Israel Fisanovich, supposedly had taken her out of her assigned area and was diving the sub when the aircraft came in sight instead of staying on the surface and firing signal flares as instructed. All crew, including the British liaison staff, were lost. Later investigation revealed that the RAF crew were at fault.

7 August – A RAF Hawker Typhoon strafed a squad from 'F' Company/US 120th Infantry Regiment, near Hill 314, France, killing two men. Around noon on the same day, RAF Hawker Typhoon of the 2TAF was called in to assist the US 823rd Tank Destroyer Battalion in stopping an attack by the 2nd SS Panzer Division between Sourdeval and Mortain but instead fired its rockets at two US 3-inch guns near L'Abbaye Blanche, killing one man and wounding several others even after the yellow smoke (which was to identify friendlies) was put out. Two hours later, an RAF Typhoon shot up the Service Company of the 120th Infantry Regiment, US 30th Division, causing several casualties, including Major James Bynum who was killed near Mortain. The officer who replaced him was strafed by another Typhoon a few minutes later and seriously wounded. Around the same time, a Hawker Typhoon attacked the Cannon Company of 120th Infantry Regiment, US 30th Division, near Mortain, killing 15 men. An hour later, RAF Typhoons strafed 'B' Company/US 120th Infantry Regiment on Hill 285, killing a driver of a weapons carrier.


Two battalions of the 77th Infantry on Guam exchanged prolonged fire on 8 August 1944, the incident possibly started with the firing of mortars for range-finding and angle calibration purposes. Small arms and then armour fire was exchanged. The mistake was realized when both units tried to call in the same artillery battalion to bombard the other.


8 August –
8th USAAF heavy bombers bombed the headquarters of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division and 1st Polish Armoured Division during Operation Totalize, killing 65 and wounding 250 Allied soldiers.

Near Mortain, France, RAF Hawker Typhoon aircraft attacked two Sherman tanks of 'C' Company, US 743rd Tank Battalion with rockets, killing five tank crewmen and wounding ten soldiers. Later that day, two Shermans from 'A' Company, US 743rd Tank Battalion were destroyed and set ablaze by RAF Typhoons near Mortain. One tank crewman was killed and 12 others wounded.

9 August – A RAF Hawker Typhoon strafed units of the British Columbia Regiment and the Algonquin Regiment, 4th Canadian Armoured Division, near Quesnay Wood during Operation Totalize, causing several casualties. Later that day, the same units were mistakenly fired upon by tanks and artillery of the 1st Polish Armoured Division, resulting in more casualties.

12 August – RAF Hawker Typhoons fired rockets at Sherman tanks of 'A' Company, US 743rd Tank Battalion, near Mortain, France, causing damage to one tank and badly injuring two tank crewmen.

13 August – 12 British soldiers of 'B' Company, 4th Wiltshires, 43rd Wessex Division, were killed and 25 others wounded when they were hit by rockets and machine gun attacks by RAF Typhoons near La Villette, Calvados, France.

14 August – RAF heavy bombers hit Allied troops in error during Operation Tractable causing about 490 casualties including 112 dead. The bombings also destroyed 265 Allied vehicles, 30 field guns and two tanks. British anti-aircraft guns opened fire on the RAF bombers and some may have been hit.

17 August – RAF fighters attacked the soldiers of the British 7th Armoured Division, resulting in 20 casualties, including the intelligence officer of 8th Hussars who was badly injured. The colonel riding along was badly shaken when their jeep crashed off the road.

14–18 August – The South Alberta Regiment of the 4th Canadian Armoured Division came under fire six times by RAF Spitfires, resulting in over 57 casualties. Many vehicles were also set on fire and the yellow smoke used for signalling friendlies was ignored by Spitfire pilots. An officer of the South Alberta demanded that he wanted his Crusader AA tanks to shoot at the Spitfires attacking his Headquarters.

27 August – A minesweeping flotilla of Royal Navy ships came under fire near Le Havre. At about noon on 27 August, HMS Britomart, Salamander, Hussar and Jason came under rocket and cannon attacks by Hawker Typhoon aircraft of No. 263 Squadron RAF and No. 266 Squadron RAF. HMS Britomart and HMS Hussar took direct hits and were sunk. HMS Salamander had her stern blown off and sustained heavy damage. HMS Jason was raked by machine gun fire, killing and wounding several of her crew. Two of the accompanying trawlers were also hit. The total loss of life was 117 sailors killed and 153 wounded. The attack had continued despite the attempts by the ships to signal that they were friendly and radio requests by the commander of the aircraft for clarification of his target. In the aftermath the surviving sailors were told to keep quiet about the attack. The subsequent court of enquiry identified the fault as lying with the Navy, which had requested the attack on what they thought were enemy vessels entering or leaving Le Havre, and three RN officers were put before a court martial. The commander of Jason and his crew were decorated for their part in rescuing their comrades. At the time reporting of the incident was suppressed with information not fully released until 1994.


9 September - On third day of the Battle of Arnhem, a German SS battalion's pursuit of landed Allied paratroopers was halted at the village of Wolfheze, Netherlands, when Luftwaffe planes mistakenly strafed it.


12 September:
A group of RAF Hawker Typhoon aircraft destroyed two Sherman tanks of the Governor General's Foot Guards, 4th Canadian Armoured Division in the vicinity of Maldegem, Belgium, killing three men and injuring four. One Canadian soldier from the 4th Canadian Armored Division wounded recalled this incident saying "... while so deployed the tanks were suddenly attacked, in mistake, by several Typhoon aircraft. Lt. Middleton-Hope's tank was badly hit, killing the gunner Guardsman Hughes, and the tank was set on fire. Almost immediately Sgt. Jenning's tank was similarly knocked out by Typhoon rockets. Meanwhile the Typhoons continued to press home their attack with machine guns and rockets, and, while trying to extricate the gunner, Lt. Middleton-Hope was killed after his tank turret was blown off. In this tragic encounter, Guardsman Scott was also killed and Baker, Barter, and Cheal were seriously wounded."


The Japanese transport ship Rakuyō Maru, carrying 1,317 Australian and British prisoners-of-war in convoy from Singapore to Formosa (Taiwan), was sunk in the Luzon Strait by the submarine USS Sealion, whose commanders were unaware until after the sinking that allied prisoners had been on board. Ultimately 1,159 POWs died, only 50 rescued by the Sealion and sister submarines in her pack lived to make landfall.


18 September – The Japanese cargo ship Junyō Maru was packed with 1,377 Dutch, 64 British and Australian, and 8 American prisoners of war along with 4,200 Javanese slave labourers (Romushas) bound for work on a railway line being built in Sumatra when she was attacked and sunk by British submarine HMS Tradewind, whose commander, Lt. Cdr Lynch Maydon did not know there were Allied prisoners of war on board. At that time it was the world's greatest sea disaster with 5,620 dead as well as the worst single friendly fire loss (surpassed by the Cap Arcona disaster next year) and highest death toll inflicted in a single action by British forces. 680 survivors were rescued, the prisoners of whom went on to their intended destination.


19 September – RAF Sergeant Bernard McCormack, a gunner in a Lancaster bomber, was returning along with other RAF aircrews from a night time raid over Nazi Germany. As they returned to RAF Woodhall Spa in Lincolnshire, Sgt McCormack saw a plane flying in the same formation as he was. Believing that it was a German Junkers Ju 88, he attacked the plane, bringing it down over the Dutch town of Steenbergen. Two of the occupants were killed. It was found out by RAF intelligence officers that it was actually a British Mosquito flown by CO Guy Gibson, who previously took part in Operation Chastise, and his navigator Jim Warwick. Wracked with guilt, McCormack taped a confession, which he entrusted to his wife Eunice when he died in 1992.


24 October, the Japanese transport Arisan_Maru was carrying 1,784 Allied prisoners of war (POWs) from Manila when it was sunk by a torpedo from USS Shark. All but nine of the POWs are reported to have died in the incident.


In October, Soviet troops liberated the city of Niš from occupying German forces and advanced on Belgrade. At the same time, the U.S. Army Air Forces was bombing German-Albanian units entering from Kosovo. The U.S. planes mistook the advancing Soviet tanks as enemies (probably due to a lack of communications) and began attacking them, whereupon the Soviets then called in for air support from Niš airport and a five-minute dogfight ensued, ending after both the U.S. and Soviet commanders ordered the planes to retreat.


Canadian artillery units were rushed in to support the retreating American forces as a counterattack against the advancing German Army during the early stages of the Ardennes Offensive. When American troops were making a retreat north of the Ardennes, the Canadians mistook them for a German column. The Canadian artillery guns opened fire on them, resulting in 76 American deaths and many as 138 wounded.

25 December 1944 – Major George E. Preddy, commander of the USAAF 328th Fighter Squadron, was the highest-scoring U.S. ace still in combat in the European Theater at the time when he died on Christmas Day near Liege in Belgium. Preddy was chasing a German fighter over an American anti-aircraft battery and was hit by their fire aimed at his intended target.


1967-68 Incidents-

6 February 1967, twelve rounds from New Zealand artillery accidentally landed on the Australian 'D' Company 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, killing four and thirteen injured in west of Song Rai river between Nui Dat and Xuyên Mộc District.


3 August 1967, a C-7 Caribou transport plane was approaching the special forces camp at Duc Pho when it flew into line of fire from a U.S. Army 155 mm howitzer. The tail section separated and the airplane fell down, killing the crew. A cease fire had been issued but failed to reach the gun crew in time. The Caribou was photographed just before it hit the ground.


19 November 1967, a U.S. Marine Corps. A-4 Skyhawk aircraft flown by Lt. Colonel Richard Taber dropped two 250 lb (110 kg) bombs on the command post of the 2nd Battalion (Airborne) 503d Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade while they were in heavy contact with a numerically superior NVA force. At least 45 paratroopers were killed and another 45 wounded. Also killed was the Battalion Chaplain Major Charles J. Watters, who was subsequently awarded the Medal of Honor.


16 March 1968 at FB Birmingham Marine F-4s dropped bombs on the base killing 16 men of the 101st Airborne and wounding 48.


18 March 1968, around 10 Marines were killed by MACV-SOG operators mistaking them for enemy forces, when such operators were trying to ambush the supposed enemies. The incident was result of stress and a bad intel, as their commander said that the area was in enemy control.


16–17 June 1968, HMAS Hobart, USS Boston and USS Edson were attacked by US aircraft. At 03:09, Hobart's radar picked up an aircraft approaching with no IFF transponder active. At 03:14, the aircraft fired a single missile at the ship which killed one sailor, wounded two others and damaged the ship. Two minutes later, the aircraft made a second pass and fired two missiles which caused further damage, killed another sailor and wounded six others. The aircraft came around for a third attack run, but was scared off when Hobart's forward gun turret, under independent control, fired five rounds at it. At 03:30, USS Edson, in company with Hobart, reported coming under fire, and Hobart's captain ordered both destroyers and USS Theodore E. Chandler to take up anti-aircraft formation.

At 05:15, the three destroyers linked up with the cruiser USS Boston (which had been hit by a missile from another aircraft) and the escorting destroyer USS Blandy, and continued anti-aircraft manoeuvring. Debris collected from Hobart and the other ships indicated that the missiles were of United States Air Force (USAF) origin. The attacks on Hobart and the other ships were the capstone of a series of firing incidents between 15 and 17 June, and an inquiry was held by the USN into the incidents, with three RAN personnel attending as technical advisors. The inquiry found that a few hours before the attack on Hobart, Swift boats PCF-12 and PCF-19, along with USCGC Point Dume, were attacked by what they identified at the time as hovering enemy aircraft, but were believed to be friendly planes; PCF-19 was sunk in the attack. F-4 Phantoms of the USAF Seventh Air Force, responding several hours after the attack on the Swift boats, were unable to distinguish between the radar signature of surface ships and airborne helicopters, and instead opened fire on Hobart, Boston, and Edson.

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Response to DillyDilly500 (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 9, 2019, 10:13 PM

15. Ignorance beyond belief

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 07:50 AM

4. Oswald.

Acting alone. No actual evidence has been submitted to support another theory. Some people just cannot wrap their head around the idea that a lone shooter from a book depository could make the shots.

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:45 AM

6. Yep, read "Case Closed"

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 09:31 AM

7. I agree.

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Response to Muddling Through (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 09:53 AM

14. Anyone mildly interested in the Kennedy assassination circumstances and facts

Knows that Oswald did not act alone, if at all.

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:06 PM

9. Carlos Marcello

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:26 PM

10. I wouldn't put it past LBJ.

He was as crooked as a dog's hind leg.

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 09:25 AM

12. Was LBJ involved?

Madeleine Brown — an advertising executive who claimed to have had an extended love affair and a son with President Lyndon B. Johnson — said that she attended a party at Murchison's Dallas home on November 21, 1963 — the evening prior to the assassination of John F. Kennedy. In attendance, according to Brown, were Lyndon Johnson as well as other famous, wealthy, and powerful individuals including, J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, H. L. Hunt, George Brown, and John McCloy. Brown said that Johnson met privately with several of the men after which he told her: “After tomorrow, those goddamn Kennedys will never embarrass me again. That’s no threat. That’s a promise.” Brown said that on November 22, 1963 — the day of the assassination — Johnson phoned her and repeated his warning. On the TV program A Current Affair, she stated: "On the day of the assassination, not but a couple of hours prior to the assassination, he said that John Kennedy would never embarrass him again and that wasn't a threat — that was a promise."

Of course, this could be just another in the long line of strange coincidences surrounding JFK's murder.

It was no secret that Johnson and the Kennedys hated each other. One claim was Johnson bribed Kennedy into selecting him as his running mate by threatening to expose JFK and all his affairs. People cared about that stuff back then.

Was the Mafia involved? The Mafia has held a long-standing relationship with the intelligence agencies of the US going back to WWII. The Kennedys had it in for New Orleans Mafia leader Carlos Marcello. My best guess is it stemmed from turf wars with daddy Kennedy and his bootlegging days. Bobby Kennedy had Carlos and his lawyer abducted and flown to a South American jungle where they were left to die. Marcello and his lawyer found their way back to civilization and then Louisiana. As the story goes, that is when Marcello vowed to Kill the Kennedys. Asked years after Kennedy's death, Marcello was asked if he killed Kennedy, to which Marcello answered, "Yeah, I killed the sonofabitch. My only regret was I didn't do it with my own hands." A mafia hitman has confessed to being the man behind the picket fence. He said he was told the shooters in the Dal-Tex building wanted a head shot. If Kennedy had not received one by the time his car arrived in front of the picket fence, he was to take the shot, which he did.

I can tell you this. Years after the assassination if the name Kennedy was mentioned at Marcello family gatherings, Marcello and his brothers would lather themselves into a rage.

Old Italian saying: If you want to kill a snake, you cut off its head.

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Response to imwithfred (Original post)

Tue Jul 9, 2019, 10:24 PM

17. LEE HARVEY OSWALD

Occams law

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